YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

[HisbyAdoption]

So you don't believe that you should love God with all your heart which is the greatest commandment. You also believe that God will save people that do not love him. Then that means that everyone will be saved whether they love him or not.

Actually what we believe is that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.. The Godly for the ungodly..It is because He first loved us that we love Him. For we are not saved by the working of the Law but by Grace through Faith. We do not maintain our salvation.. Jesus forever saves us whom come to Him. It is not in our works of righteousness that any man can stand.. It is all through Christ and His truth..

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Been refuted through scripture brother.. The torah is as much the law of Moses as the ceremonial was.. We are the seed of Abraham which did not come under the law but was declared righteous because He believed God.. We are his seed in that we have been declared righteous because we Believe in His Son Jesus Christ our Lord..

Can any man be righteous with sin in his life. Don't you think that Abraham asked for forgiveness for his sins. Keeping God's Law does not make you a sinner. Breaking them makes you a sinner. That is why we need to confess our sins and God will cleanse us from those sins.

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Actually what we believe is that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.. The Godly for the ungodly..It is because He first loved us that we love Him. For we are not saved by the working of the Law but by Grace through Faith. We do not maintain our salvation.. Jesus forever saves us whom come to Him. It is not in our works of righteousness that any man can stand.. It is all through Christ and His truth..

So you also believe in the once saved always saved doctrine. Please do not think that i am saying that we keep the law to be saved. It is because we are saved we keep the law. People who don't care about God will not bother with any commandment. We are saved by grace through faith but works are as a result of our faith. Keeping God's commandments are a result of our faith and love for God

 

[squint]

Goes without saying that those who promote certain Laws have indeed sunk themselves back into the quicksand.

The fact that lawlessness still abides in the flesh that The Law then empowers that lawlessness to drag it's victims back into bondage.

Unless you free yourself of that mentality. You must overcome that, and put your flesh into submission of His will, which is "to be perfect, just as Father is perfect".

Perfection is indeed another topic, but suffice it to say that by One offering "we" who are His (all mankind) have in fact been made perfect forever. Yet perfecting is an ongoing, perhaps never ending working of God in us.

I do not mistake myself as Gods child for that which the Law is written against.

Just as Jesus was perfect. You seem to think that it is literally impossible for the flesh to be perfect? How so, Jesus did it, and HE was without sin, and as A MAN.

We are never promised sinless flesh in scriptures. The very opposite is the fact.

John's statements on these matters is abundantly clear:

1 John 1:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Yet John leaves us with the great dilemma of separating ourselves from that which we are "all" bound with in the flesh:

3:
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Many more current versions of the scriptures have added the word "continue" into this segment because they cannot see how John's statement can be possible, but it is true as recorded above.

We have the benefit, and gift, because of His sacrifice, which wiped out our sin, and made us new.

That is true as it applies to "sins being counted" against us as Gods children, but it is NOT true as it applies to the sin indwelling the flesh.

Paul elaborated on this at quite some length, and perhaps pointed out to you in another thread or 2, that the sin that indwelt Paul he termed "no longer I." Yet that presence of sin indwelling was not denied by Paul.

We know that "he who commits sin is of the DEVIL."

It is RIGHT THERE that is the dividing line between Gods offspring, ALL MANKIND and that OTHER faction that we are all bound with that is NOT US...and THEIR WORKINGS are not counted against us (mankind) but those same workings ARE counted against those workers of iniquity, THE DEVIL AND HIS MESSENGERS unto who THE LAW is and remains written AGAINST...

I hope you get the drift on this matter. It is a most crucial point. The Mighty Sword of God that DIVIDES us from what we are bound with. The Law being IN our behalf and AGAINST that working of LAWLESSNESS that "none" of us can say "we don't have" in our flesh....

Yes, both say you must obey a Law of sin and death,

The Word ALWAYS brings the automatic response of THE RESISTORS...

Remember that wherever Gods Word is sown, SATAN COMES immediately to STEAL that Word and immediately is and remains in extremely close proximity.

when Christ came to redeem mankind from this very sin and death. He fulfilled and completed ALL there is to do. We are under a New Covenant, period. No longer the old, but a new.

You may think that you are not "performing" under the Law, but we also know that the entirety of the requirements OF that same Law are fulfilled in us who actually DO love our neighbors as ourselves.

No "believer" can say they love their fellow man AND simultaneously and in the same breath "count sins" against their fellow man AND commit them to burn alive forever....that methodology does not compute.

We can however HOLD THAT LAW UP against the devil and his messengers because of the lawless resistance they bring to us "in the flesh" and we can also entirely accept eternal damnation to THEM...and still love our fellow man who are BLINDED by the "god of this world" and who are SLAVES to that sin indwelling them.

His death was the inaugurating effect which brought it in. The Law is easy, which is to Love. Like mankind needs this Law, but in case you do, there it is, a reminder of what Father wants from us. And if you say you "keep" it because you have to, you have missed it. I don't Love because I have to, but I choose to. My choice, my will.

His Love for us is reflected through us and in part that reflection is one of DIVISION and understanding of these basic principles. Most "believers" simply do not understand that both Eternal Love to mankind and Eternal Damnation to the devil and his messengers exists simultaneously, yet differently to different parties. Paul elaborated on this when he said in Romans 9 that in the SAME LUMP there is both a vessel of honor and a vessel of wrath and destruction.

The Law is in BEHALF of the vessels of HONOR and AGAINST the vessels of dishonor, wrath and destruction.

No vessel of honor will deny that they also have a vessel of wrath and destruction in their flesh any different than Paul admitting that he had a messenger of Satan with him and evil present with him. Paul as Gods child WAS NOT THE SAME AS THEM and neither are our fellow man.

I agree because all we see is a harlot form of Christianity. They think that they are OSAS, and because of this belief will set up Anti-Christ in their hearts. They sin repeatedly with no guilt of it. For them there is no redemption, as they will be doomed for trampling the Blood of Christ, making His sacrifice of no effect, but having known the Truth, they traded it for a lie.

I am not in the practice of counting sins against mankind, nor can I say I have no sin indwelling my own flesh and be in Truth.

What I can say is that I as Gods child am not the same as them.

In this way both sound judgment as it pertains to sin and love for our fellow man transpires simultaneously.

How does a Law become "enhanced".

Remember when Jesus said that the Law of Moses forbade adultery, but Jesus AMPLIFIED that same Law to it's fullest extent when stating that even the "thought" of adultery was to commit adultery in the heart. In that way Jesus condemned even the thought of SIN in any form.

How does a Christian commit one another to be "fried" forever? Interesting choice of words.

You should know well enough that is the practice of nearly every denomination. In fact it is probably the only thing they ALL have in "common."

Like they were supposed to, to start with? Both commandments He issued were quoted from Torah.

The amplification of The Law in arousing sin was clearly shown in Israel. The Law of LOVE has amplified the working of lawlessness in the flesh to the position it has today. The Jews of the O.T. through the time of Jesus and even to this day NEVER believed in the eternal conscious torment of their fellow man in fire...yet that belief exists today in nearly every denomination...an amplification of LAWLESS HATRED to those we are to LOVE.

And this is themselves. Quit looking for the boogie man, he is in the mirror. This is the face you should be seeing "dimly, face to face", until you don't see him any longer.

Word will reflect both positions and neither can be denied. Satan clearly was revealed to be IN mankind. Mankind however is NOT Satan.

Christ DEALT with the the son of perdition, in the desert.

That's right. Jesus already advised Satan that MEN WILL LIVE by EVERY WORD of God...presumably not to then fry them alive forever for "sins."

Satan and his messengers however will not have that life.

It is up to us, with the Comforter's Help to overcome him as well.

Overcoming arrives by division. The Law assists us in that manner.

Yes, the serpent has grown into a dragon, but that is because we can't keep the dang believers from eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and every time you eat it, he gets that much stronger.

There is no disputing scripturally that anti-Christ spirits exist. They are found upon mankind but are not the same as mankind.

Strip that Dragon of his beauty, put him on his belly, and finally just stomp it out of your lives.

You might be reminded of Paul's condition. I will not sacrifice a fairytale eradication in place of the coming destruction of those entities. In the meantime we shine "in the midst" of darkness, but are not the "same as" that darkness. It is because of THEM that we see only in part and in darkness.

Anyone who says you HAVE NO CHOICE BUT to sin, is a lier and the truth is not in him

Never said that. Notwithstanding I am not going to deceive myself that there isn't a continual assault within and without on both flesh and mind by those enemies by closing my eyes and "wishing" them away. What "they" do, "they" do and in fact we are even promised their arousal by Word so that their presence in the flesh is Unmistakable and that "we" would "separate ourselves" from that working.

No where in scripture, after Jesus died, did the Apostles talking with believers say that you have no choice but to sin,

You say "we." Scripture says he who commits sin is of the devil. I am not the devil. The devil does not 'make me' sin NOR do I or any person have those workings of Satan and his messengers counted against them.

Paul continued in his understanding of this working here, knowing that THE LAW empowered sin in his flesh:

Romans 7:
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The "law of sin" says that when the Law of God arrives to the FLESH that SIN INDWELLING is revealed, aroused and empowered.

Paul accounted himself as "dying daily" because of that PRESENCE and it is THAT presence that is NOT us, but is our ENEMY...not our "fellow man."

but instead, that you can become perfect and overcome the flesh, by living through Christ, in Christ, and becoming part of the Body of Christ. John when talking in his first letter deals with first the relaying the message from God, in full, and then moves on to the Children, Young Men, and finally Fathers, which are nothing but different stages of Christian growth. Which is why it seems there is a contradiction, but there isn't.

Nowhere did the Apostles deny the fact of the presence of sin indwelling their flesh. What they DID deny is that THEY or our fellow man or you or I are the SAME AS that presence.

The Perfection that has been measured to US does not extend to that which is in our flesh that is NOT us.

Pure Faith and Pure Love in Jesus the Christ and Father casts all fear aside. In this you live, sin free,

No man in Truth will deny that they have "sin." Any man who says they have sinless flesh has already been blinded by that presence of sin indwelling.

We as Gods children in Love are perfected therein. The other parties however remain aroused and empowered AGAINST that Good News no differently than The Law that arouses and empowers sin.

because you want to, not because you have to. This is Love. To Love is giving yourself to something greater than yourself, willingly. No greater Love has one for another, than the one who lays His life down for His friends. NONE. I gladly give my life to Jesus, fully and completely.

You cannot "freewill" yourself free of the presence of sin. Sorry. A child of light will stand in the light of His disclosures in these matters and against the working of lawlessness that abides in the flesh.

Every person carries their own package of "sinners" to the cross for eventual judgment and in this way every person serves Gods Purposes. One to Life, and one to eternal condemnation and nary the twain should be "mixed."

enjoy!

squint

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Post #298

No, it doesn't. In fact, the bible NEVER talks about PART of the law being abolished. Instead, it says that the ENTIRE law stands forever. Either the ENTIRE law stands, or NONE of the law stands.

I'm going to feed my dogs. When i come back i will prove it.

Hurry back.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Phil 3:2 Beware of-the Dogs/kunaV <2965>, beware of-the Evil Workers , beware of-the concision/katatomhn <2699>!
3 For we-are the circumcision/peritomh <4061> , ones to Spirit of God worship, boasting in Christ Jesus, and not in flesh having confidence
.
Revelation 22:15 Without the Dogs/kuneV <2965>, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters/eidwlolatrai, and every one who is loving and is doing a Falsehood .

 

[holo]

They will not because the ceremonial system is passed away.

But Jesus said that not an iota of the law should pass. Either you're under the ENTIRE law, or you're not under the law at all. When was part of the law abolished? And when was it given to gentiles?

You seem not to agree that the saints will be keeping the commandments.

I don't agree that they will be observing the law of Moses.

The fact is that we know. You put so much blame on the commandments but it was God who gave it.

Yes, and He gave it for a very particular purpose. Israel ASKED for it, they WANTED to live according to the letter, and God allowed them to try. He gave the law to demonstrate that you simply can't live according to it - instead, you must -like Adam and Abraham etc- rely on nothing but the grace of God.

The law demands that YOU do it. Grace allows GOD to do it - He's the only one who CAN do it, and He's the only one who has ever done it, and He's the one who's SUPPOSED to do it

Paul said that even his works weren't actually him, but "the grace of God that is with me."

He wants men to love and obey him by choice not by fate.

Exactly. The law completely contradicts that idea. The law doesn't even hint that you should somehow love God voluntarily. It simply demands that you SHALL love Him.

Remember that in the new covenant the law is placed in our heart.[/QUOTEThe law of Moses is not in my heart.

We don't need tables of stone because the law is in our minds and hearts.

But how can you then keep pointing to those stone tablets instead of pointing to our hearts?

That is because the law was written on the hearts of men.

But isn't that what you say happened in the NEW covenant?

God only gave the 10 commandments to Moses because the Israelites were so rebellious that they needed a visual reminder.

If so, that plan backfired like the mother of all backfires.

But God is wiser than that - He didn't give the law to make Israel more righteous, but to make the whole world GUILTY. God has no problem making people righteous. He has no problem changing people. We only need to allow Him to do so. And as long as we keep trying to make ourselves righteous, we will fail. Therefore God gave the law, to utterly demonstrate that we CAN'T.

The tragedy is that most of christianity tries to use the law for the exact opposite of what it was intended for!

The fact is that we all have that knowledge of sin

We don't have to. We can live like Adam and Eve lived before the fall, blissfully unconscious of sin, blissfully conscious of God. When you have God in you and around you, when you're breathing God, you don't need to be told not to murder, like you were some criminal. In fact, the bible plainly states that the law is for the wicked and the ungodly - in other words, not for you and me.

When you say the Mosaic Law are you referring to the law Moses wrote in a book in Deuteronomy 31 that was placed on the side of the ark of the covenant in contrast to God's 10 commandments which were placed inside the ark protected by the very presence of God?

That doesn't mean that part of the law was given to the gentiles or that it had any other purpose than the rest of the law, though. As far as I know, the ten commandments, as opposed to the entire law, is mentioned only one other time in the bible - when Paul refers to the "ministry of Death, engraved on stone."

It's the ministry of Death. It's supposed to KILL us and any idea that we can somehow contribute to our own salvation. "...for by the law I DIED TO THE LAW so that I may belong to another [Christ]," Paul said. But instead, most christians seem to believe that they are supposed to live according to it. But the bible actually says the exact opposite!

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

It's the ministry of Death. It's supposed to KILL us and any idea that we can somehow contribute to our own salvation. "...for by the law I DIED TO THE LAW so that I may belong to another [Christ],"Paul said.

holo that's NOT what Paul said.

Paul said that he died to the law of sin and death so that he can be married to the law of God.

The law Paul died to is the law of sin and death and NOT to God's law.

If you consider yourself of the Spirit then you are subject to the law of God, Paul said.

Paul also said if you are carnal you are not subject to the law of God.

What many Christians don't want is to be subject to something especially the law of God.

"I'm justified by faith and I'm saved" Most don't even know what faith is. It's not belief it's an action word. The best way to to describe faith is 'faithing'.

Marc

 

[HisbyAdoption]

Can any man be righteous with sin in his life. Don't you think that Abraham asked for forgiveness for his sins. Keeping God's Law does not make you a sinner. Breaking them makes you a sinner. That is why we need to confess our sins and God will cleanse us from those sins.

Breaking the law does not make us a sinner. We are a sinner from birth. Born into sin. Therefore we sin. There is no man righteous.. No not one.. This is why it is Christ righteousness that is ours. For it is our faith in Him that we are declared righteous..


We are not saved to keep the law.. We are saved to have a complete intimate realtionship With God through Christ where we cry ABBA Father. When we are born again we are then slaves to righteousness. For once again we are not the seed of Moses nor the seed of Isreal but the seed of Abraham who was creditied righteousness to Him for believing God. Does that mean we can go out and sin. God forbid.. It means that we are now a new man. Created from the inside out by the Spirit of God in us.. Our old man is Hid in Christ. It is now Him working in us to do the fathers will and that is to walk in love.

 

[Tkjjc]

Breaking the law does not make us a sinner. We are a sinner from birth. Born into sin. Therefore we sin. There is no man righteous.. No not one.. This is why it is Christ righteousness that is ours. For it is our faith in Him that we are declared righteous..


We are not saved to keep the law.. We are saved to have a complete intimate realtionship With God through Christ where we cry ABBA Father. When we are born again we are then slaves to righteousness. For once again we are not the seed of Moses nor the seed of Isreal but the seed of Abraham who was creditied righteousness to Him for believing God. Does that mean we can go out and sin. God forbid.. It means that we are now a new man. Created from the inside out by the Spirit of God in us.. Our old man is Hid in Christ. It is now Him working in us to do the fathers will and that is to walk in love.

Very nice. Agree with most except for this:

We are a sinner from birth. Born into sin.

I have never agreed with this traditional churchianity doctrine. If that were the case it would mean Jesus sinned, as He was born as a man. And it would make Jesus a lier, and the Truth would not be in Him, for He said clarifying a then traditional doctrine:

And His disciples asked Him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?"Jesus answered, "Neither this man sinned, nor his parents; but so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

Just by this simple yet hard core Truth, we find that this man is not a sinner from birth.

 

[HisbyAdoption]

Paul said that he died to the law of sin and death so that he can be married to the law of God.

This is not what Paul said.

 

[HisbyAdoption]

I have never agreed with this traditional churchianity doctrine. If that were the case it would mean Jesus sinned, as He was born as a man. And it would make Jesus a lier, and the Truth would not be in Him, for He said clarifying a then traditional doctrine:

Yes He was born as a man. BUT His Father was not a man,.. He was God all mighty.. The creator of Heaven and earth.. See sin came in through Adam. Ever since then men born of men and woman are born sinners.. But Jesus being Born of God because He is the Word who Is God was prepared a body.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

This is not what Paul said.

Yes he did if you understand the Midrash in Romans 7 that starts at verse one.

Romans 7:4[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another&#8212;to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

The law Paul is referring to is either the law of sin and death or the law of God.

The point is the word nomos is flipping back and forth between a &#8216;good&#8217; law(God&#8217;s Law) and a &#8216;bad&#8217; law(the law of sin and death). How do you know which law Paul is speaking of? Sometimes it&#8217;s hard to figure out. You got to get the whole argument and context is very important.

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law of sin and death through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another&#8212;to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

Or

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law of God through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another&#8212;to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

Which is it? Have we become dead to the law of sin and death or have we become dead to the law of God?.... so that we may be married to Him?

Didn't Yeshua say that the Greatest commandment is love God and neighbor?

So what have been we become dead to... love God and neighbor?

Marc
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[HisbyAdoption]

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another&#8212;to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

Notice that Paul was not married to the law of God but to Christ Jesus who was raised from the dead.. Paul being Jewish knew he was now dead to the law.. All of it.. And now He is married to Christ Jesus the risen King of Kings and it is through Grace by faith and not the working of the law.

 

[HisbyAdoption]

The Law was not given to Abraham. Of whom we are the seed of.. He was the Father of Faith. Not the working of the Law.. We are the seeds of a promise..

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Notice that Paul was not married to the law of God but to Christ Jesus who was raised from the dead.. Paul being Jewish knew he was now dead to the law.. All of it.. And now He is married to Christ Jesus the risen King of Kings and it is through Grace by faith and not the working of the law.

Which nomos is Paul dead too?

The nomos of sin and death?

The nomos of God?

Marc

 

[Tkjjc]

The fact that lawlessness still abides in the flesh that The Law then empowers that lawlessness to drag it's victims back into bondage.

Don't you find that strange? We are set free from bondage and sin, by being Born-Again of the Spirit and set free. Praise Jesus and His Sacrifice for us. But because of OUR fleshly desires and carnal imperfections, we LET the Law DRAG us back into sin? Is this Truth? Or can it be, that we can indeed, come out of her, and overcome? Why would the Gospels keep telling us to do something, that is impossible to do? Or in fact, are we are being deceived?

Do you all think this is still referring to the Anti-Christ later in time, with an earthly temple, with a earthly throne? Hmm, read that REAL REAL slow, and pray that the Spirit of Truth may guide you.....




Let no one in any way deceive you, for unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes HIS seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. For the mystery of sin is already at work; only he who now restrains until he is taken out of the way. Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the BREATH of His MOUTH and bring to an END by the appearance of His coming; the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of the Adversary, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.


But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has CHOSEN you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the SPIRIT and faith in the TRUTH.

And Jesus said, after He was told by the seventy that even demons were subjected in His Name:

"I was watching the Adversary fall from heaven like lightning."

Sounds like a lot of revealing was taking place!

 

[Tkjjc]

Yes He was born as a man. BUT His Father was not a man,.. He was God all mighty.. The creator of Heaven and earth.. See sin came in through Adam. Ever since then men born of men and woman are born sinners.. But Jesus being Born of God because He is the Word who Is God was prepared a body.

Really?
Duet 24:16
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

1st John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Well, this smacks in the face of what you are implying. John says that children of God shouldn't sin, but you say it doesn't matter, you are BORN with it.
Moses wrote that children weren't to be put to death for the sins of their fathers, but you say that we are already, by original sin doctrines.

The only reason we die in the Flesh according to God, is that Adam was driven from the Garden. Hense, he couldn't eat from the tree of LIFE any longer. This is where we dwell in these vessels now. Driven out. Does this mean we sinned from birth? No. It means the reconciliation couldn't take place until Jesus, the second Adam, redeemed us and conquered death. He did this by OBEDIENCE to the Father's Law. Perfection, and a sacrificed death. We are now victorious in Christ. Yes the vessels die, but our spirit lives on. The bridge is restored, and now Eden is attainable once again. Jesus is that tree of Life, and by His Word, we live, according to the promises made to Abraham.

What must I believe? Babies sin, or the Word of God? Show me in doctrine, where Babies sin. This is a man made doctrine which DROVE me to confessional when I was but a boy who didn't know sin, and didn't even realize what I was saying or doing. Man, was I messed up, until I came OUT of HER.

 

[holo]

So you don't believe that you should love God with all your heart which is the greatest commandment. You also believe that God will save people that do not love him. Then that means that everyone will be saved whether they love him or not.

Jesus says of you love me keep my commandments.
If you break one of them then you need God's grace. Once you have God's grace you are saved. But you must have love to start that process. If i don't love God i would not care about his grace. God does not push grace down our throats. A man who loves God will accept grace. A man who loves God will Love God with all his heart which is the greatest commandment.

I love because He loved me first, that's all. It has nothing to do with commandments. And yes, I believe God will save people who don't love Him. He even died for us all while we were still His enemies. He paid the price for us once and for all, He didn't wait until we loved Him or that we in any other way made ourselves worthy of salvation. He saved Peter, He saved Thomas, etc etc. It is HE who saves us, we don't save ourselves in any way, shape or form. Salvation is for all who want it.

 

[holo]

Can any man be righteous with sin in his life.

Can any man be unrighteous with Jesus in his life?

And that's not even the full truth, that a righteous man "has Jesus in his life" - no, Jesus IS life, and Jesus IS our righteousness.

 

[holo]

holo that's NOT what Paul said.

Actually, it is;
For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.

Paul said that he died to the law of sin and death so that he can be married to the law of God.

The law Paul died to is the law of sin and death and NOT to God's law.

The law of Moses is the law of sin and death - in another place, Paul specifically calls the ten commandments the ministry of death. See for yourself. The commandment is the power of sin. When the commandment came, sin sprang to life. Apart from the law, sin is dead.

If you consider yourself of the Spirit then you are subject to the law of God, Paul said.

Sure. I have never been under the mosaic law though. I'm not an Israelite. I'm not even alive.