YEC's/ sheep

[ThePhoenix]

Question:

Would 10,000 years really have that big an impact though?

I mean, right now all they can do is eat and mate. They need to be led to relieve themselves in different areas so that they don't eat the same grass they do their business in.

I would think that it would take much longer to stupidify an animal. 10,000 years doesn't seem long enough. TTYL Jesus loves you!

Arguement from incredulity. Darwin himself addressed this issue.
http://www.bartleby.com/11/0104.html

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Question:

Would 10,000 years really have that big an impact though?

I mean, right now all they can do is eat and mate. They need to be led to relieve themselves in different areas so that they don't eat the same grass they do their business in.

I would think that it would take much longer to stupidify an animal. 10,000 years doesn't seem long enough. TTYL Jesus loves you!

We are talking about artificial selection here and not natural selection. Look at dog breeds and see how different they are from their common ancestor. Sheep have a tendency to follow the lead ram and this has been bred into the herding instinct. The tendency of sheep to bunch up and follow the herd is thus derived from a natural tendency and not necessarily stupidity, though I have worked with sheep a bit and they aren't very smart. However, if anyone really thinks they can take a large aggressive ram with a knife I would like to see them try it.

If want to see another example of what selective breeding can do look at the difference between the wild and domestic turkey. Wild turkies and extremely wary birds and domestic turkies don't have sense enough to come in out of the rain. Do you think they are seperate creations?

The Frumious Bandersnatch

 

[JohnR7]

Molecular evidence indicates that sheep were domesticated about 10,000 years ago from more than one species of wild sheep.

According to the link you provided: "the origins of Ovis aries are not well understood. The taxonomy of present day wild relatives is confused and controversial"

The evidence is just not that clear cut on the "evolution" of sheep.

 

[JohnR7]

Do you think they are seperate creations?

I do

 

[Drotar]

I don't think they're separate species, but I'd be ignorant of the facts to claim that selective breeding bore no biological results. I'm still thinking through all this, as I mentioned earlier.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

According to the link you provided: "the origins of Ovis aries are not well understood. The taxonomy of present day wild relatives is confused and controversial"

The evidence is just not that clear cut on the "evolution" of sheep.

Actually the point of the paper is sort that out and provide evidence, in this case molecular evidence that sheep were domesticed about 10,000 years ago from at least two species of wild sheep.

The Frumious Bandersnatch

 

[JohnR7]

Actually the point of the paper is sort that out and provide evidence, in this case molecular evidence that sheep were domesticed about 10,000 years ago from at least two species of wild sheep.

What else are evolutionists going to say? It is just when they go to establish their evidence for what they believe, the evidence turns out to be: "confused and controversial".

You will find the same conclusions with a lot of domesticated animals from the middle east. Why? Because God created them in Eden 6000 years ago.

Genesis 2:19
Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name.

God did not just create Adam and Eve, He created a whole biodiverse ecology. That does not mean there were not other biodiverse systems in other parts of the world. It just means the one we find in Eden was created 6000 years ago. If it were not for Noah and the Ark, it would have all been destroyed about 1700 years later.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Except that pigs were domesticated in China about 9,000 BC. Maybe God didn't create domestic pigs for Adam because they are unclean.

The Frumious

 

[Nathan Poe]

Question:

Would 10,000 years really have that big an impact though?

I mean, right now all they can do is eat and mate. They need to be led to relieve themselves in different areas so that they don't eat the same grass they do their business in.

I would think that it would take much longer to stupidify an animal. 10,000 years doesn't seem long enough. TTYL Jesus loves you!

10,000 years is plenty of time... with a little human help.

Remember that this is artificial selection, not Darwin's natural selection. Humans carefully controlled every aspect of the sheep's lives for every day of those 10,000 years. That not only pushed the fast-forward button on their evolution, but sent it in the direction that we wanted it to go, not where nature would've taken it...

Think of it: Only the sheep that had the qualities that the humans wanted would be allowed to breed. Those qualities being, for the most part, fat and docile. Those sheep were allowed to breed more fat and docile sheep; the rest ended up on someone's dinner table without getting the chance to breed.

Normally, a sheep can live for 8-13 years, but they are sexually mature at 18 months. They have a breeding life of 4-5 years after that.

That gives us a new generation of sheep every 6 1/2 years at the most. And remember, the humans are going to do everything they can to make sure those sheep breed as early and as often as possible. Still, let's be conservative and round that number up to a new generation every 7 years.

10000/7 = 1428.57, approximately. That means that since sheep have been domesticated, they are in, at the very least, the 1,428th generation under human cultivation. Humans who have only been allowing the fat docile ones to breed more fat docile ones.

Sounds like more than enough time to make the fat, docile, helpless little bags of wool we see today.

 

[ObbiQuiet]

*applause @ nathan*