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Would You Help To Rebuild The Jewish Temple?

Would You Help Support The Rebuilding Of The Jewish Temple?

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  • Maybe

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Big Mouth Nana

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Dad Ernie said:
Greetings Symes,

Lots of scripture from the OT, so how about these:

Deut 4:26-31 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed. 27 And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you. 28 And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. 29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. 30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; 31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Do you get the gist? In the LATTER days, in days of TRIBULATION (the Great Tribulation) God will NOT forsake them nor forget the covenant of their fathers.

So how about some NT support?

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Romans 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear) unto this day.
Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Romans 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

I too do not believe the Temple will be rebuilt, but God has not forgetton nor forsaken Israel because of His rememberance of the Covenant with their fathers.

Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Does this last verse ring a bell? Like Deut 4:31?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie
Thank you Dad Ernie. You saved me the trouble of typing these scripture out, lol. Of course the Jews are still Gods chosen people. We are only grafted in until God turns to them again.
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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Dad Ernie said:
I too do not believe the Temple will be rebuilt, but God has not forgetton nor forsaken Israel because of His rememberance of the Covenant with their fathers
Daniel12:11 And from the time that the DAILY SACRIFICE shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
2nd Thess. 2:3-4 ~ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is god.
The temple will have to be rebuilt for sacrificing to be going on. The Jews aren't going to be sacrificing in anything but a temple. They know that it has to be rebuilt on the same site as Solomons temple was built on. Most of them will tell you that right on the Jewish topics on this site.
 
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Dad Ernie

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By His Grace said:
Dad Ernie said: Daniel12:11 And from the time that the DAILY SACRIFICE shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
2nd Thess. 2:3-4 ~ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is god.
The temple will have to be rebuilt for sacrificing to be going on. The Jews aren't going to be sacrificing in anything but a temple. They know that it has to be rebuilt on the same site as Solomons temple was built on. Most of them will tell you that right on the Jewish topics on this site.
Greetings By His Grace,

So you are saying that an End Days Temple will be built that is GOD'S!

My Bible says:

1 Cor 3:16-17 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

2 Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

You may not understand this but what I have marked in red is:

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Consider the following:

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Who is it that shall defile God's Temple (US)? It is the Beast and the false prophet who will either sway people to him or destroy them. This IS THE ABOMINATION that DESOLATES.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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Dad Ernie said:
Greetings By His Grace,

So you are saying that an End Days Temple will be built that is GOD'S!

My Bible says:

1 Cor 3:16-17 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

2 Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

You may not understand this but what I have marked in red is:

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Consider the following:

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Who is it that shall defile God's Temple (US)? It is the Beast and the false prophet who will either sway people to him or destroy them. This IS THE ABOMINATION that DESOLATES.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie
The Jews will think that they are rebuilding this temple for their Messiah, and will be expecting Him to show up. Little do they know, that the one that shows up is the antichrist, and he sits in it. Alot of the Jews are going to accept this...sadly. One reason being, the AC and false prophet will be able to do mighty miracles to sway them into believing this lie out of hell.
Yes, we are definately the temple of God, but the blinded Jews do not know anything about this. They are still in the old testament. I believe the abomination of desolation is a man incarnated with satan, sitting his keaster in "the holy place". The bible does call it "a holy place". Look at it in this light. We are the temple of God. His Spirit lives on the inside of us. That would be the same thing as the devil moving in on the inside of us with Jesus. A house divided can not stand. This temple is going to be desolated, or the abomination of "desolation".
Main Entry: des·o·la·tion
Pronunciation: "de-s&-'lA-sh&n, "de-z&-
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 : the action of
desolating
2 a : [size=-1]GRIEF[/size], [size=-1]SADNESS[/size] b : [size=-1]LONELINESS[/size]
3 : [size=-1]DEVASTATION[/size], [size=-1]RUIN[/size]
4 : barren wasteland

******************************
Main Entry: 2des·o·late
Pronunciation: -"lAt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -lat·ed; -lat·ing
Date: 14th century
: to make desolate: a : to deprive of inhabitants b : to lay waste c : [size=-1]FORSAKE[/size] d : to make wretched
- des·o·lat·er or des·o·la·tor /-"lA-t&r/ noun
- des·o·lat·ing·ly /-"lA-ti[ng]-lE/ adverb

Can you imagine the grief and saddness the Jews are going to feel, when they finally realize that this isn't their Messiah sitting in their temple? Recall, they are going to see the one that they pierced, and know who he is., even the ones who have taken the mark already. I would think that basically the devil himself sitting in a holy temple, calling himself god would make it an abomination of desolation..or make the place wretched.
 
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Linda8

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Palatka44 said:
[/color]

In Jewish tradition their lineage is traced all the way back to Abraham. All Jewish families must have record of their family tree as proof of their lineage and backed up by the lineage of cousins, uncles etc.





.

This cannot be possible. If it were possible to trace lineage back to Abraham,

I can assure you many people would have known whether they were related

to Christ by blood on Mary's side or even on Joseph's (adopted) side.

How could they trace to Abraham, but they cannot trace to the all important

family of Christ, John the baptist etc, James etc?

It FAR easier to trace back to Christ's time, than it is to trace back to

the days of Abraham.

Any blood relatives of Christ here?
 
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Linda8

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By His Grace said:
The Jews will think that they are rebuilding this temple for their Messiah, and will be expecting Him to show up. Little do they know, that the one that shows up is the antichrist, and he sits in it. Alot of the Jews are going to accept this...sadly. One reason being, the AC and false prophet will be able to do mighty miracles to sway them into believing this lie out of hell.
Yes, we are definately the temple of God, but the blinded Jews do not know anything about this. They are still in the old testament. I believe the abomination of desolation is a man incarnated with satan, sitting his keaster in "the holy place". The bible does call it "a holy place". Look at it in this light. We are the temple of God. His Spirit lives on the inside of us. That would be the same thing as the devil moving in on the inside of us with Jesus. A house divided can not stand. This temple is going to be desolated, or the abomination of "desolation".
.
How could we follow events if the world proceeds without this Anti Christ actually sitting in the Temple?

Would people force someone to be come the Anti christ just to speed
things along ASSUMING no one actually does enter and Sit in the temple?

The prophecy of the anti christ may not necessarily involve someone actually
sitting in a temple claiming to be some false god.

I am not questioning the prophecy, but its interpretation does NOT

necessarily mean some human being would go and sit in the temple.

Another point is.... the rebuilt temple IS NOT A TEMPLE OF GOD.

It is a man made idolatrous temple ..right? Or does God regard it as His Temple?
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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Linda8 said:
How could we follow events if the world proceeds without this Anti Christ actually sitting in the Temple?

Would people force someone to be come the Anti christ just to speed
things along ASSUMING no one actually does enter and Sit in the temple?

The prophecy of the anti christ may not necessarily involve someone actually
sitting in a temple claiming to be some false god.

I am not questioning the prophecy, but its interpretation does NOT

necessarily mean some human being would go and sit in the temple.

Another point is.... the rebuilt temple IS NOT A TEMPLE OF GOD.

It is a man made idolatrous temple ..right? Or does God regard it as His Temple?
That's not possible, because the bible doesn't lie. It says that he will sit in the temple and proclaim that he is god, 2nd Thess. 2: 2-4 ~ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that MAN OF SIN be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

LOL, I don't think that anyone can force someone to become the antichrist. This one is hand picked by God himself, so prophecy can unfold. This person is full of the devil, 2nd Thess. 2:9 ~ Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders. Any ordinary person won't be able to be the AC, and pocess signs and lying wonders.
The Jews will think that they are building it for their messiah. I believe that this temple is just going to serve the purpose of the antichrist doing his thing. It will be unholy for sure, as we are the temple of the Lord.

 
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Linda8

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By His Grace said:
That's not possible, because the bible doesn't lie. It says that he will sit in the temple and proclaim that he is god, 2nd Thess. 2: 2-4 ~ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that MAN OF SIN be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

LOL, I don't think that anyone can force someone to become the antichrist. This one is hand picked by God himself, so prophecy can unfold. This person is full of the devil, 2nd Thess. 2:9 ~ Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders. Any ordinary person won't be able to be the AC, and pocess signs and lying wonders.
The Jews will think that they are building it for their messiah. I believe that this temple is just going to serve the purpose of the antichrist doing his thing. It will be unholy for sure, as we are the temple of the Lord.

2nd Thess. 2: 2-4
... so that he as God sitteth in the TEMPLE of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2 Thess 2: 2-4 does Not refer to a temple of Baal or an unholy Temple.
2 Thess 2:4 refers to someone sitting in the Temple of God.
2 Thess 2:4 does not refer to the unholy future Temple to be being built.

You cannot call that a temple of God.
It is an error to call a false temple a Place of God.
Hence the Anti christ sitting there does not fulfil the
prophecy.

That does not fulfil prophecy at all.
The Bible does not lie.

2 Thess 2: 2-4 will be fulfilled in some other manner, not involving a Non Holy Temple.

Calling a Non Godly temple a Place of God is wrong regarding our Lord.

The Bible was not referring to a Non Holy structure.
 
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Dad Ernie

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Greetings By His Grace,

Daniel 9:27 says that the Sanctuary (Temple) will remain desolate till the "consummation". When you realize that the pronoun "he" in that verse refers to the Messiah, then you will also understand that the time referred to is when "all things are put under our Lord's feet. In addition, our Lord, said that no stone of the temple (hieron) would be left unturned. If you will look closely at the Greek, the word "hieron" is the main temple, the Holy Place, the Holy of Holies, all the grounds buildings and walls that surround it. The AoD is going to sit in the "naos", the holy place, of which we are. Also, there are Jews since 70 A.D that have looked forward to the reconstruction of the temple. Why do you believe that the Apostles/disciples never once wrote that the "hieron" would be reconstructed? It seems to me that a response by them would be VERY important if they did not know otherwise. But THEY knew that the new Temple, would NOT be made by human hands, and in the latter days the antichrist SPIRIT would inhabit much of that temple.

I am sure you are aware of what is going on in the mideast right now, specifically Israel and the Temple Mount. Can you honestly say that Israel will at some time rebuild the Temple? I really think not. There is ONLY a relative few who support that.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie
 
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Just The Facts

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Hi

Once again

the sacrifice taken away is not animal sacrifice.

you can not take away animal sacrifice from God he did away with it himself 2,000 years ago

That would be like me quitting smoking today then 2,000 years from now you say that someone took my cigarettes away.

How could they do that I did away with them 2,000 years ago.

Same with the sacrifice how can you take from God what he did away with 2,000
years ago

I CAN NOT BE DONE.

GOD DID AWAY WITH ANIMAL SACRIFCE 2,000 YEARS AGO HOW CAN ANYONE TAKE IT AWAY FROM HIM IN THE FUTURE.

Sorry that is just a big fat lie taught to Christians by the harlot and her Many Harlot daughters in this case the Baptists.

The Sacrifice that the AC takes away is the prayers and deeds of the Saints.

Because as I have shown WITH SCRIPTURE the only acceptable sacrifice to God is the Prayers and Deeds of the Saints. That is ALL GOD WILL ACCEPT so it is the only sacrifice that could be taken away from God because it is the only one he excepts.

Hey I know let's build a Temple in Jerusalem and start sacrificing Children. Then when someone stops us
we can say they took away God's daily sacrifice.

Or hey let's build a Temple in Jerusalem and start sacrificing pets like dogs and cats. Then when someone stops us we can say they took away God's daily sacrifice.

Or hey let's build a Temple in Jerusalem and start sacrificing Eagles. Then when someone stops us we can say they took away God's daily sacrifice.

Do you see ??????????? do you understand ????????????

You can only take from God what is his………………… animal sacrifice is not His and never will be again ……………………..he did away with it 2,000 years ago it can not be taken away from him
 
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adam332

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Bloodline matters not and never has. We are Jews, Israelites, Abrahams seed, because we are in Christ. God's Israel is made up of believers only, always has been. Never was the literal bloodline of Abraham to be considered special. The original covenant always included those outside of his bloodline as well. The OT shows us clearly that a non-literal descendant of Abraham can be joined into the covenant while a literal descendant can be cast from it. The accepting of the covenant is what mattered.

God is no respector of persons, circumcision of the heart is what truly made you an Israelite and neither of these a NT concept but has always been.

Do you think Christ was a Jew? Better check his lineage again. Because by mans standards of an Israelite he would not have been, therefore he was a spiritual Jew as are all believers. He is the true Israel and we are his children if we believe.

Rom.11 confirms this is you read it with all the original intent in place and without a pre-conceived view on the identity of Israel. Just check what Paul himself wrote about it just two chapters prior in Rom.9.
 
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adam332

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God called Israel "the seed of Abraham." (Isa. 41:8) .
But, Paul wrote that Abraham's seed does not refer to "many," but to "one, ... which is Christ." (Gal. 3:16)

In about 800 B.C., the Lord spoke through the prophet Hosea, saying, "When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt." (Hos. 11:1)

Around 800 years following Hosea's prophecy, "Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king." (Mat. 2:1).
Since Herod felt threatened by this new child king, he sent soldiers that "slew all the children that were in Bethlehem." (v.16).
Joseph was warned of the coming crisis in beforehand.
"The angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word." (v.13).
So his family left and "departed into Egypt." (v.14).

Matthew states that baby Jesus stayed in Egypt "until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son." (v.15).
Here Matthew is quoting Hos. 11:1, which initially referred to the nation of Israel coming out of Egypt, yet now he states it is "fulfilled" in Jesus Christ.

Once following the healing a group of people, Jesus humbly "charged them that they should not make him known: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias [Greek for Isaiah] the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets." (Mat.12:16-19).
This time Matthew is quoting Isa. 42:1-3, a passage that originally applied to "Israel, ... my servant." (Isa. 41:8) .
And Matthew again informs us it is "fulfilled" in Jesus Christ.

Paul also followed the concept of applying statements initially made about the nation of Israel to Christ.
God names Israel "my firstborn" in Exo. 4:22.
But Paul indicates it was Christ who is "the firstborn of every creature." Col. 1:15.


The book of Matthew reveals that Christ actually replays the history of ancient Israel, and overcame where they had not.
Notice the following amazing parallels between the history of ancient Israel and of Jesus Christ:

In the Old Testament, a man named Joseph had dreams and went into Egypt to keep his family alive (Gen. 45:5).
In the New Testament we see another Joseph, who also had dreams and then went to Egypt to keep his family (Mat. 2:13).
When the young nation of Israel came out of Egypt, God called that nation "my son" in Exo. 4:22.
When the baby Jesus came out of Egypt, God said, "Out of Egypt have I called my son." (Mat. 2:15).
When Israel left Egypt, the people went through the Red Sea. Paul states they were "baptized unto Moses ... in the sea." (1 Cor. 10:2).
Jesus too was baptized "to fulfill all righteousness," and immediately following God called Him, "my beloved Son" (Mat. 3:15-17).
After the Israelites passed through the Red Sea, they spent 40 years in the wilderness.
Following His baptism, Jesus was "led up of the Spirit into the wilderness" for 40 days (Mat.4:1, 2).
After the end of their 40-year wilderness wandering, Moses wrote the book of Deuteronomy.
After the end of Jesus' 40 days in the wilderness, He resisted the devils temptations by quoting three Scriptures; all found in Deuteronomy.
In Psa. 80:8, God refers to Israel as a "vine" that He brought "out of Egypt."
Still, Christ later tells us, "I am the true vine." John 15:1.
In the Old Testament, the name "Israel" first applied to only one man, which was Jacob.
It stood for Jacob's spiritual victory over sin.
Likewise, in the beginning of the New Testament we discover that Jesus Christ is the new Israel who came "out of Egypt." He is the one victorious Man who overcame all sin.

A New Nation

Remember that the name "Israel" not only referred to Jacob, but also to his descendants, who became Israel. The same principle is seen in the New Testament.

For example, the Lord had told the ancient Israelites, "And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation." Exo. 19:6. In the New Testament, Peter applies these exact words to the church: "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people." 1 Pet. 2:9.

Likewise, right after Paul's statement in Galatians chp. 3 about Jesus being "the seed," he then told his Gentile converts [a Gentile is any person who is not of the Jewish faith], "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Gal. 3:29).
Thus in the New Testament, the name Israel not only applies to Jesus Christ, but also to those who are born in Christ-His church.
In other words, all true Christians are now God's spiritual Israel.

According to the New Testament, there are now two Israels. One group is composed of literal Israelites "according to the flesh" (Rom. 9:3, 4).
The other is "spiritual Israel," composed of Jews and Gentiles who believe in Jesus Christ.

Paul wrote, "They are not all Israel, which are of Israel." (Rom. 9:6).
That is, not all are part of God's spiritual Israel who are of the literal nation of Israel.
Paul continued, "That is, They which are the children of the flesh [physical descendants of Abraham], these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Rom. 9:8) .
The children of the flesh are only natural descendants of Abraham, but the children of the promise are counted as the true seed.
Today any person-Jew or Gentile-can become a part of this spiritual nation of Israel through faith in Jesus Christ.

God Looks on the Heart
Just as there are two Israels, there are also two kinds of Jews: (1) Jews who are only natural descendants of Abraham, and (2) Jews in the Spirit who believe in Jesus Christ.
Paul wrote, "Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest on the law, and makest thy boast of God. ... For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision [Gentiles] keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? ... For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Rom. 2:17, 25, 26, 28, 29).

Did you catch that? Someone who is "called a Jew" because he is a physical descendant of Abraham, and yet who lives as a lawbreaker, "is not a Jew."
His "circumcision is made uncircumcision." Thus to God, he is a Gentile.
And a believing Gentile, who through faith keeps "the righteousness of the law," his uncircumcision is counted for circumcision.
Thus to God, he is a Jew.
John the Baptist paved the way for this principle when he warned the Jews not to trust their literal ancestry for salvation. "Bring forth therefore fruits meet [worthy] for repentance: And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." (Mat.3:8,9).

Later Jesus echoed this same principle in a showdown with the religious leaders. "They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham." "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do." (John 8:39, 44).

Paul wrote, "Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." (Gal. 3:7).
"For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh." (Phil. 3:3).
Thus, according to Paul, a real Jew in the sight of God is anybody-Jew or Gentile-who has personal faith in Jesus Christ!

Peter told a room full of Gentile converts, "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him." (Acts 10:34, 35).

All Israel Saved?

We all know that we are saved under the new covenant, right? Notice the wording of the new covenant: "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah." (Jer. 31:31).
And in the book of Hebrews, Paul expands on this concept: "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. ... For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more." (Heb. 8:8, 10-12).

The new covenant is made "with the house of Israel".
God never makes a salvation covenant with Gentiles.
In fact, nowhere in Scripture do you find any saving covenant made with anyone but Israelites.
So if you want to be saved, you must be born again, as a spiritual Jew.
This is not to say that all Christians must now be circumcised and sacrifice lambs, but we must have the spiritual equivalent of these things-Jesus, the Lamb of God, and circumcision of the heart.

God does not have one method of salvation for Jews and a different brand for non-Jews.
Everyone is saved the same way under the same program.
By grace through faith.
Paul used the analogy of an olive tree to explain that all Gentiles who are saved are grafted into the stock of Israel.
"And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root [supports] thee." (Rom. 11:17, 18) .

The Christian religion is based on a Jewish manual called the Bible. (In light of this fact, it is extremely difficult to understand how any real Christian could be anti-Semitic.) Christianity is not a new religion, but rather the completion of the Jewish faith.

With this truth in mind, we can now better understand what Paul meant when he said, "And so all Israel shall be saved." (Rom. 11:26).
Some have taken this verse to mean that God will ultimately save all literal Jews.
If this were true, it would contradict every principle of God's dealings with humans throughout history and Scripture.
God is not a racist. In Jesus' eyes, "There is neither Jew nor Greek." (Gal. 3:28) .

We are saved based on choices we make regarding God's provision, not on national status or physical citizenship.
But if when Paul says that "all Israel will be saved" he is speaking of spiritual Israel, and if we understand that we become a "true Jew" only by a choice, then it all makes sense.
 
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Dad Ernie

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Greetings Adams332,

Do you think Christ was a Jew? Better check his lineage again. Because by mans standards of an Israelite he would not have been, therefore he was a spiritual Jew as are all believers. He is the true Israel and we are his children if we believe.


I think you should rethink this. Jesus was definately a Jew who came to save THE JEWS:

Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

So whenever you speak the Name "Jesus", you are saying "He shall safe His people from their sins".

They rejected Him the first time, and thus salvation went to the Gentiles to whom He gave the responsibility of sharing the Gospel to the Jews:

Romans 11:30-31 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

The church IS NOT "spiritual Israel" or "true Israel", but if you will read Romans 9-11 with the following thoughts in mind, you may gain the correct understanding.

Romans 9 - Paul laments that "his brothers in the flesh (Israel)" rejected Christ.
Romans 10 - He continues in this chapter to tell of HOW they will be saved "How can they hear unless someone is sent."
Romans 11 - Paul then goes on to explain Israel's status. They have been hardened in part till the "fulness of the gentiles be come in", and that they shall receive their "fulness" after that time" - meaning once the Kingdom of God has received its fill of Gentiles, then those of the Kingdom shall minister "grace" to Israel - and thus ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED.

The Olive Tree in Romans 11 represents the Kingdom of God, NOT Israel.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie
 
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adam332

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I know what the scipture says....but we are talking about two kinds of Jews and two kinds of Israelites. Christ does not fulfill the lineage standard of being a Jew...like I said if you don't believe me please refer to the passages about his lineage and check it for yourself. the rest of what you wrote is completely un-contextual in its conclusion...all of which is addressed in the study I've shown.
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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Just The Facts said:
Hi

Once again

the sacrifice taken away is not animal sacrifice.

you can not take away animal sacrifice from God he did away with it himself 2,000 years ago

That would be like me quitting smoking today then 2,000 years from now you say that someone took my cigarettes away.

How could they do that I did away with them 2,000 years ago.

Same with the sacrifice how can you take from God what he did away with 2,000
years ago

I CAN NOT BE DONE.

GOD DID AWAY WITH ANIMAL SACRIFCE 2,000 YEARS AGO HOW CAN ANYONE TAKE IT AWAY FROM HIM IN THE FUTURE.

Sorry that is just a big fat lie taught to Christians by the harlot and her Many Harlot daughters in this case the Baptists.

The Sacrifice that the AC takes away is the prayers and deeds of the Saints.

Because as I have shown WITH SCRIPTURE the only acceptable sacrifice to God is the Prayers and Deeds of the Saints. That is ALL GOD WILL ACCEPT so it is the only sacrifice that could be taken away from God because it is the only one he excepts.

Hey I know let's build a Temple in Jerusalem and start sacrificing Children. Then when someone stops us
we can say they took away God's daily sacrifice.

Or hey let's build a Temple in Jerusalem and start sacrificing pets like dogs and cats. Then when someone stops us we can say they took away God's daily sacrifice.

Or hey let's build a Temple in Jerusalem and start sacrificing Eagles. Then when someone stops us we can say they took away God's daily sacrifice.

Do you see ??????????? do you understand ????????????

You can only take from God what is his………………… animal sacrifice is not His and never will be again ……………………..he did away with it 2,000 years ago it can not be taken away from him
Sorry that is just a big fat lie taught to Christians by the harlot and her Many Harlot daughters in this case the Baptists.
I'm not a Baptist, but this remark was VERY uncalled for and rude!!!! I was going to respond to your post, but your attitude needs prayer.
 
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Dad Ernie

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adam332 said:
I know what the scipture says....but we are talking about two kinds of Jews and two kinds of Israelites. Christ does not fulfill the lineage standard of being a Jew...like I said if you don't believe me please refer to the passages about his lineage and check it for yourself. the rest of what you wrote is completely un-contextual in its conclusion...all of which is addressed in the study I've shown.
Apparently you DO NOT KNOW what the scriptures say:

Matthew 1:1-2 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. 2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;

Luke 3:34 Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor,

nor apparently have you read the OT:

Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Luke 1:31-32 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Blessings,

Dad Ernie
 
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Dad Ernie

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Greetings Adam 332,

According to the New Testament, there are now two Israels. One group is composed of literal Israelites "according to the flesh" (Rom. 9:3, 4).
The other is "spiritual Israel," composed of Jews and Gentiles who believe in Jesus Christ.


Paul speaks of the Jews (Spiritual Israel, as you may call them) and declares that there is a "remnant" of them at that time of who he is a member. No where in all the NT does Paul or anyone else state that the "gentiles are or become Israel". The closest you get to that kind of thinking is in Ephesians when he speaks of the gentiles "drawing nigh" to Israel - meaning that the Kingdom of God is composed of believing Jew and Gentile.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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adam332 said:
I know what the scipture says....but we are talking about two kinds of Jews and two kinds of Israelites. Christ does not fulfill the lineage standard of being a Jew...like I said if you don't believe me please refer to the passages about his lineage and check it for yourself. the rest of what you wrote is completely un-contextual in its conclusion...all of which is addressed in the study I've shown.
I believe you are wrong here adam332.
JESUS THE JEW ~ http://www.leaderu.com/theology/jesusjew.html
Just the fact alone that his mother Mary was a Jew, constitutes her Son being at least half, and if He wasn't full blooded, which I am sure that God saw to it that He was, the Jews wouldn't have let Him teach in their temple. For sure, He definately wasn't Gentile. No way would the Jews have let him in the temple at all. They hated the Gentiles. He was definately ALL JEW in the body, with the attributes of God himself.
In this sense, there are two Israels. The unbeliving Jews in Israel, and the Spiritual house of Israel, (us believers). Check this verse out: Gal 3:28 ~ There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Once you accept Christ, their is no nationality difference, we are all the same, but Jesus was all Jew in the flesh.
 
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Just The Facts

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Hi by His Grace

Why was it Rude.

How many people on this site say on a regular basis that the Catholic Church is the harlot of Revelation 17:

Because I say the Baptists are one of her many Harlot daughters I am rude.

Now if what I said was not true then it would be a lie and need looking at but it is the truth so I ask you how can stating the truth be rude.

If Baptists say the Catholic Church is the harlot and teaches False Doctrines it is ok for them but I am rude to suggest the Baptists do the same.

Please why would you say such a thing?


Now as for the debate about the Jews there is no other salvation than through Jesus end of story.

The Olive Tree is all there is you are either grafted in or you are not a part.

The jews do not start a new Olive Tree they get Grafted BACK IN to the Olive Tree.

That Olive Tree is True Christianity.

Rom:11:24: For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

You see they get grafted back into Christianity not start a new tree or something.

The Only Rebirth for a Jew is to be reborn a Christian just like the rest of Mankind.

All this False teaching the modern Israel is Ezekiel 37 Fulfilled is nonsense a bunch of False Teachings.

Here is what Ezekiel 37 says.

12: Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves,[/color=red] and bring you into the land of Israel. 13: And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,[/color=red]

Gee do you think God wants to make it clear it is out of their graves that he brings them back to the Land of Israel.

You know the First resurrection.

That is Jesus bringing people out of their Graves not us Putting people in Their Graves

Can you see the difference

It always amazes me how for each false teaching there is the verses to show it is wrong.

Just like the verse that says call no man on Earth Father it was not meant for your dad it was meant as a warning against false teachers.

Just as the verse is their to disprove that doctrine of Men so is the verse there in Ezkiel to disprove all who would say modern Israel is the work of God.

All this Murder Hatred and Death is not of God it is Of Satan he was a murder from the beginning. It is Satan who wants another Temple it is Satan who wants mankind to start Animal sacrifice to build the Temple to show himself to be God..

I mean how insulting could it Get .

No Jesus your death meant Nothing Go away while we slaughter this goat on the alter in a temple and burn the blood.

Your death was useless Jesus just go away and leave us alone we do not want to be the Temple for God's Spirit we want a Earthly building we want animal sacrifice.

PLEASE PEOPLE CAN YOU NOT SEE THE HORRIBLE TRUTH HIDDEN BEHIND THIS LIE.
 
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