Would you glorify God if Calvinism was true?

[BNR32FAN]

Are you suggesting that He might change what He was going to do with Steve later on maybe? Because if so, then you might maybe have to try and explain to just as to how or "why" He would do that? Or why He would change His decision as to what to do with Steve later on when He had already made up His mind about that decision from long, long ago before that already, etc?

God Bless.

No im not saying that He would change anything

 

[BNR32FAN]

Third option, it wouldn't matter because I wouldn't remember.

I’m curious when we would lose our memory because Revelation says that the martyrs under the alter were asking God when will their murderers be judged.

“When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?””
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭6‬:‭9‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

But the question here was "Would you glorify God if Calvinism was true?" Suppose someone who doesn't believe Calvinism answers the poll. He/she must imagine that Calvinism does turn out to be true, then say whether or not he or she would still glorify God. Surely if the doctrine turned out to be true, God should be glorified for it. Those who already believe Calvinism already glorify God (at least, those I know do), so there is not problem for them to answer Yes. I still cannot see how anyone could say "Yes I would glorify God" (and mean it), and "No I wouldn't glorify God" (and mean it). It is surely an either/or question.

The point of my question is would you glorify God if you found out that He chose you for salvation but didn’t choose your child and because you child wasn’t chosen he or she didn’t repent and believe BECAUSE he or she wasn’t granted the ability to repent and believe by God. So your child never had any chance whatsoever of salvation because God arbitrarily chose to throw your child into the lake of fire.

 

[Joseph G]

I just thought I’d take a poll on how many Christians would glorify God if they arrived in heaven only to find out that Calvinism is true and their children or their loved ones were thrown into the lake of fire because they weren’t arbitrarily chosen before creation?

I glorify God because the Bible is true cover to cover, God is good and *sovereign* (therefore I have permanently removed myself from daring to judge HIM), I am indwelt and sealed by His precious Holy Spirit Who leads me into all Truth... and I LOOOVE Jesus!

Don't need no ism or denomination or anything else to define my faith or to empower me to love and share His Gospel with *anyone*.

To the nutcut, if you question God's goodness for any reason, I encourage you to gaze intently again upon His Son on that cross - and digest the Words He spoke - and ask for the faith to grasp exactly what He accomplished for YOU. If you have already trusted Him as Lord and Savior (or subsequently do so) you will - through daily Bible study and prayer and therefore a deeper understanding of Him - eventually come to *thank Him* that both predestination and free will are true. And that you can trust HIM to handle the things we just can't fully understand - including the knowledge that some people we presume to love more than God will most certainly choose eternity in Hell just to remain their own "gods" and in their minds out from under His thumb.

If we still have a problem with God creating some predestined for Hell, then we have to ask ourselves - why do *we* cooperate with Him in procreating?

As God says in addressing our root problem:

“Would you discredit my justice?
Would you condemn me to justify yourself?" Job 40:8 NIV

God bless!

 

[BNR32FAN]

But with a false, unfathomable premise. So no, it cannot even be thought of.

It’s a hypothetical question

 

[BNR32FAN]

I glorify God because the Bible is true cover to cover, God is good and *sovereign* (therefore I have permanently removed myself from daring to judge HIM), I am indwelt and sealed by His precious Holy Spirit Who leads me into all Truth... and I LOOOVE Jesus!

Don't need no ism or denomination or anything else to define my faith or to empower me to love and share His Gospel with *anyone*.

To the nutcut, if you question God's goodness for any reason, I encourage you to gaze intently again upon His Son on that cross - and digest the Word's He spoke - and ask for the faith to grasp exactly what He accomplished for YOU. If you have already trusted Him as Lord and Savior (or subsequently do so) you will - through daily Bible study and prayer and therefore a deeper understanding of Him - eventually come to *thank Him* that both predestination and free will are true. And that you can trust HIM to handle the things we just can't fully understand - including the knowledge that some people we presume to love more than God will most certainly choose eternity in Hell just to remain their own "gods" and in their minds out from under His thumb.

If we still have a problem with God creating some predestined for Hell, then we have to ask ourselves - why do *we* cooperate with Him in procreating?

As God says in addressing our root problem, "Will you condemn Me in order to justify yourselves?"

God bless!

And I’m fine with that if my children are condemned for their refusal to repent and believe but the point is that they have to be given the ability to repent and believe. In Calvin’s theology those who aren’t chosen by God for salvation are INCAPABLE of repenting and believing because God has not enabled them to do so thru regeneration. I love God with all my heart and soul because of who He is, because of His character, not simply because He is God but because He is a loving God who is just and fair.

 

[Aaron112]

"

Avoid Vain Philosophies​

Colossians 2:8 from the Bible warns believers to beware of being led astray by philosophy and empty deceit, which are based on human tradition and the elemental principles of the world rather than on Christ.234+4 This passage advises Christians to be cautious of vain philosophies that might undermine their faith.48
The warning in Colossians 2:8 is particularly directed against the blending of Christianity with Greek philosophy or other secular wisdom, which can distort the teachings of God.48 It emphasizes the importance of relying on divine wisdom rather than human traditions and philosophies.48
In summary, the Bible encourages followers to avoid vain philosophies that do not align with Christ's teachings and to prioritize the truth found in God's Word."

 

[Joseph G]

And I’m fine with that if my children are condemned for their refusal to repent and believe but the point is that they have to be given the ability to repent and believe. In Calvin’s theology those who aren’t chosen by God for salvation are INCAPABLE of repenting and believing because God has not enabled them to do so thru regeneration. I love God with all my heart and soul because of who He is, because of His character, not simply because He is God but because He is a loving God who is just and fair.

Totally agree. Exactly why I long ago gave up immersing myself in any other mere man's theology - just leads to perpetual wrangling without solution.

Though I will admit, if that point of C's theology is true, I will still gleefully acknowledge that God is sovereign and won't waste an ounce of energy fretting over it or dwelling upon it - much less proceeding to participate in what will surely become 50 pages of a Scripture-fest free-for-all with the overarching need to personally *win*, ha!

 

[Neogaia777]

The point of my question is would you glorify God if you found out that He chose you for salvation but didn’t choose your child and because you child wasn’t chosen he or she didn’t repent and believe BECAUSE he or she wasn’t granted the ability to repent and believe by God. So your child never had any chance whatsoever of salvation because God arbitrarily chose to throw your child into the lake of fire.

Is it maybe just entirely possible that our very, very strict, and very, very literal, human interpretations of what hell/lake of fire actually literally is has maybe been just a little bit wrong up to this point over the years?

Because I can offer some interpretations of it that might make it much more acceptable in cases like this or these that you are right now mentioning maybe?

It is very, very difficult to accept when you don't know all of the real whole truth about it.

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

Is it maybe just entirely possible that our very, very strict, and very, very literal, human interpretations of what hell/lake of fire actually literally is has maybe been just a little bit wrong up to this point over the years?

Because I can offer some interpretations of it that might make it much more acceptable in cases like this or these that you are right now mentioning maybe?

It is very, very difficult to accept when you don't know all of the real whole truth about it.

God Bless.

I'll try to give you guys the shorter version of it if I can, etc.

Essentially it amounts to hell/lake of fire, that is forever, and is forever for those going there, those people/beings, being just continually cycled/recycled, born/reborn again, always back into these kinds of fallen realities when and while they are always still fallen still here, etc.

It is eternal and unchangeable/alterable for those going there, because they have always been there (and will always be going there), etc. And who they are/always were, is a very, very limited program, that never is, or ever was ever, meant to ever get to go beyond anything more than just only more of this like it is right now here, etc.

If you want to know more than that, or have specific questions about this, then ask me, etc, because this is a lot to try and explain, and for you to probably digest, if I was to try and lay out absolutely everything right here and right now here, etc.
.
God Bless

 

[Clare73]

“Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

No the passage says that they are chosen according to His foreknowledge which means that He decided to CHOOSE them or PICK them apart from others who were not chosen. Not that He decided to save some people but that He decided WHO He was going to save.

"Chosen" in the NT is always to salvation, unless stated otherwise.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I’m curious when we would lose our memory because Revelation says that the martyrs under the alter were asking God when will their murderers be judged.

“When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?””
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭6‬:‭9‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

According to Isaiah, it's at the new heaven and earth. So perhaps the action of wiping the tears away removes the source of them?

Isaiah 65:17 KJV — For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

 

[Clare73]

I never understood double predestination, either.

Well, if God predestines who is to be saved, are not the rest necessarily predestined to not be saved, by default?

 

[BNR32FAN]

"Chosen" in the NT is always to salvation, unless stated otherwise.

Yeah you didn’t address the problem with your explanation in comparison to what’s actually stated in 1 Peter 1:1-2. The passage says “those who reside as aliens who were chosen according to His foreknowledge”. So the passage is stating that is was His foreknowledge that influenced His decision of who He was going to predestine.

 

[Clare73]

Well it’s faith in hoping you were picked, faith in Christ becomes irrelevant.

Remarkable misunderstanding of Ro 8:15-16.

 

[BNR32FAN]

According to Isaiah, it's at the new heaven and earth. So perhaps the action of wiping the tears away removes the source of them?

Isaiah 65:17 KJV — For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

So if Calvinism is true and my children were not given the ability to repent and believe I’ll only hate God on judgment day then I’ll forget all about it? And why would there even be a judgement day if everyone is only capable of repenting and believing if God allowed them to? We’re being judged according to whether or not God enabled us or not? Because that’s what it basically boils down to. If God chose you then you can’t fail to repent and believe and if He didn’t then you’re not capable of repenting and believing. So we’re being judged according to whether we were allowed to repent and believe. If Calvinism is true.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Remarkable misunderstanding

I apologize if I’m misrepresenting your position. Will you please explain to us how regeneration works?

 

[Clare73]

So if Calvinism is true and my children were not given the ability to repent and believe I’ll only hate God on judgment day then I’ll forget all about it? And why would there even be a judgement day if everyone is only capable of repenting and believing if God allowed them to? We’re being judged according to whether or not God enabled us or not? Because that’s what it basically boils down to. If God chose you then you can’t fail to repent and believe and if He didn’t then you’re not capable of repenting and believing. So we’re being judged according to whether we were allowed to repent and believe. If Calvinism is true.

Precisely. . .

All mankind are by nature objects of wrath (Eph 2:3), condemned already (Jn 3:18) and enemies of God (Ro 5:19).
God owes his enemies nothing but justice.
That he chooses to give some, but not all, his mercy is not unjust, because he does not owe anyone mercy.
Those are the eternal facts of God's divine wisdom in accomplishing his plan to show forth his glory.

Judgment day is about moral law and its claim of obedience on all mankind.
No one passes the test of obedience on Judgment Day.
All those who through unbelief in Christ do not have his obedience standing in their stead will be justly condemned for their disobedience.

Those are the facts he has revealed to us in his word written.

He's God. . .we're not.
We don't have a choice regarding the facts of the matter.

 

[Clare73]

I apologize if I’m misrepresenting your position. Will you please explain to us how regeneration works?

Quite simple. . .Jn 3:3-8.

First of all, faith in hoping you were picked, instead of faith in Christ for the remission of your sin (Ro 3:25), is a misguided view and misrepresentation of saving faith.

Secondly, regeneration (rebirth to eternal life, lost in the fall) is a sovereign (as unaccountable as the wind, Jn 3:6-8) act of the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:3-5), depending on nothing but his sovereign choice to do so. . .it is God's sovereign act of "choosing" to salvation.

 

[Clare73]

If any Calvinist were to answer me with that, I woulsd just ask him to speak in tongues, or some other manifestation of the Holy Ghost.

Those are not guaranteed manifestations of the Holy Spirit. They were given to the early church as special confirmations of the truth of the gospel.
Many have the Holy Spirit without such manifestations.