Would the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple stabilize the climate???

[smaneck]

Scholar Tuvia Sagiv has answered this.... in summary.... .there is lots of room for the same sized structure as the TEmple of Solomon without disturbing either the Dome of the Rock or the Aqsa Mosque.

I can't find any information on Tuvia Sagiv. Can you tell me something about his credentials and point to me where his work can be found in referred journals.

 

[smaneck]

I think books like the Left Behind series is just bad eschatology.

I have no idea whether there will ever be a Third Temple or whether that will be a good idea, but Left Behind is bad theology as well as eschatology.

 

[smaneck]

In Sid Roth's book, The Incomplete Church, an estimate is given that there may have been 400,000 Messianic Jewish believers living in the province of Judaea at the time of the Bar Kochba Revolt.

And what does he base that figure on. My understanding is that there were only a half of million Jews altogether in Palestine when Jesus lived. And Judea was just one part of Palestine.

Tsvi Misinai and The Engagement Movement present evidence that these may be largely the ancestors of the Palestinian people.

I'd say close, but not quite. DNA evidence does indicate a common heritage for both Jews and Palestinians, which suggests that both may be descendants of the Hebrews (though a common Canaanite heritage is just as likely.) But I doubt if the Palestinians' ancestors were ever Jews. More likely Samaritans. The reason I doubt they could have been Jews, is that Jews were either enslaved or expelled from Judea. The Romans would not have cared whether they were Messianic in 70 A.D. This is why Pauline Christianity triumphs over the more Jewish forms. Eventually the Palestinians will become Christian and later Muslims, but not in this early period.

 

[smaneck]

Matter of fact, the Jewish believers were the first Church, we gentiles were grafted into it. We need to remember that because paul made a point to tell us to remember it. Romans 11:18-21

Obviously Christianity starts out as a Jewish Messianic sect, but the Jewish church was destroyed with the destruction of the Second Temple. Christianity appears to have been more appealing to Mesopotamian Jews than it was to Palestinian Jews. Nearly all of the leaders of the Nestorian Church in Sassanian Empire were of Jewish descent.

 

[DennisTate]

I can't find any information on Tuvia Sagiv. Can you tell me something about his credentials and point to me where his work can be found in referred journals.

Sure... here is a link to a discussion that I got going on this......
https://apps.facebook.com/forumforpages/180898612019485/6d0e6b1a-c408-4589-b800-9cc294039ec0/0
Canadian support for rebuilding of Jerusalem Third Temple Complex can alter Middle East political formula.


....
Is there a way in which growing Canadian support for the Jewish people in their desire to rebuild their Jerusalem Third Temple could be combined with a major peace initiative to the Islamic nations?
Would Prime Minister Stephen Harper who has control of parliament for three more years, perhaps be more interested in the alternative idea of investing in turning deserts green than he has been in some sort of carbon tax or cap and trade system?

.....
Tuvia Sagiv presents a theory that the area of the original Temple of Solomon is NOT on top of the Dome of the Rock but well off to the side so that both the Jerusalem Third Temple as well as the Dome of the Rock could perhaps be side by side to each other!
http://www.templemount.org/mtmoriah.html

14. Conclusion
"An examination and comparison between the areas and temples built throughout the Roman Empire and among the visible archeological remains in the Moriah Area, and consideration of the written testimonies and drawings lead us to the following conclusions:
The Moriah Area is not the Temple Mount built by Herod
The Moriah Area as we know it today was built by Hadrian
The Al-Aksa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock were built upon the remains of the Roman Temple.
The Temple Mount is hidden and enclosed within the Moriah Area
The Jewish Temple, or at least its remnants, exist between Al-Aksa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock in the area of Al Kas fountain.

The assumption that the Moriah Area is the work of Hadrian and his successors opens before the investigators new horizons for the understanding of Jerusalem and her secrets (56)." (Tuvia Sagiv)

 

[DennisTate]

I have no idea whether there will ever be a Third Temple or whether that will be a good idea, but Left Behind is bad theology as well as eschatology.

I thought so too until I read statements by near death experiencer Dr. Richard Eby that did make the idea of a rapture event much more logical to me.

 

[DennisTate]

Um...I don't even quite know what to say here.

How about this proposal......

SigmundHIvarsson wrote: Just ask me
The Petra Project
is a hydro electric
project that creates
clean electricity with
no carbon emissions
It consists of a seventy
kilometer tunnel between
the Mediterranean sea and
the dead sea 1232 feet below
tunnel boring machines are usually
nine meters in diameter an can be found
used because they are usually used and parked
My Swiss Friend Dr Bugnon is the world foremost
expert in tunnels since he bored the one under the Alps
there is nothing secret about the technology and many consultants
More details are available upon request. Think of an old fashion water mill

......

That the author states should be linked to the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Third Temple........ I asked Sigmund if he would support the plan to move the remains of Rabbi Nachman from Uman, Ukraine to somewhere in Israel and he replied......
SigmundHIvarsson wrote: "Why are you asking me questions about ghosts
when I told you about using your contacts in
Israel I will not stand wasting my time
anymore even though I know your
answers. The temple first the
tunnel second. Capish."

 

[DennisTate]

So... if Christians help to get a building built, that for us is more-or-less irrelevant and has its meaning and purpose seen as fulfilled in Christ and His Church (and further, will only escalate needless violence in a region that already suffers from excessive and needless violence), then we can expedite the Parousia?

That about right?

-CryptoLutheran

Basically, yes!

But this needs to be linked to an increase in understanding of the historical reality of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus as actually being Jewish......… who cleared crooks out of the Temple area..... who urged his followers to pray..... that their flight...… (over thirty years after his death burial and resurrection).......... not be on the weekly .... or annual....Sabbaths?!

 

[DennisTate]

I voted for everything because I could.

You may well be onto something...… if Multiverse Theory indicates non-linear time...… (multiple Ezekiel 37 events)..... then..... in various time lines..... all of those answers could become most relevant........(I would not want to live in the time line created by option #2............… but....... somebody has got to do it????!)

 

[smaneck]

Sure... here is a link to a discussion that I got going on this......
https://apps.facebook.com/forumforpages/180898612019485/6d0e6b1a-c408-4589-b800-9cc294039ec0/0
Canadian support for rebuilding of Jerusalem Third Temple Complex can alter Middle East political formula.

That doesn't tell me anything about his credentials or where he has published in refereed journals.

 

[smaneck]

Basically, yes!

But this needs to be linked to an increase in understanding of the historical reality of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus as actually being Jewish......… who cleared crooks out of the Temple area..... who urged his followers to pray..... that their flight...… (over thirty years after his death burial and resurrection).......... not be on the weekly .... or annual....Sabbaths?!

You won't find any 'crooks' on the Temple Mount. Muslims are very particular about maintaining the dignity of their holy sites. Where you will find the crooks in droves is on the Via Dolorosa. There is a souvenir shop at every stage of the cross along with hawkers trying to persuade you to go inside. Then when you get to what is presumably the holiest site of Christendom, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the priest will tell you how Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life and hold his hand out for money right then and there. A Muslim holds the keys to that Church because otherwise the various sects of Christendom would fight over it.

 

[DennisTate]

You won't find any 'crooks' on the Temple Mount. Muslims are very particular about maintaining the dignity of their holy sites. Where you will find the crooks in droves is on the Via Dolorosa. There is a souvenir shop at every stage of the cross along with hawkers trying to persuade you to go inside. Then when you get to what is presumably the holiest site of Christendom, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the priest will tell you how Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life and hold his hand out for money right then and there. A Muslim holds the keys to that Church because otherwise the various sects of Christendom would fight over it.

All religions have crooks of one kind or another...........

......it is difficult for either Christians or Muslims to give Jews credit for what they accomplished in the past.... thus the illegal excavations on the Temple Mount that seem to be an attempt to rid the area of evidence that Jews were there for 3000 years or more...........

 

[DennisTate]

That doesn't tell me anything about his credentials or where he has published in refereed journals.

I don't know a whole lot about that......

I recently ran into a theory put forward by Ernest Martin that the actual Temple of Solomon may have been over the Gihon Spring...... also a good distance away from The Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque.......

Just look up Ernest Martin on Wikipedia.... it is quite interesting......

 

[smaneck]

All religions have crooks of one kind or another...........

Of course. But I'm referring specifically to the use of holy sites or commercial purposes.

......it is difficult for either Christians or Muslims to give Jews credit for what they accomplished in the past.... thus the illegal excavations on the Temple Mount that seem to be an attempt to rid the area of evidence that Jews were there for 3000 years or more...........

I'm not sure which excavations you are talking about. When I first visited Israel the Palestinians were complaining that the Israelis were tunneling under the Temple Mount, weakening the Aqsa mosque and also damaging the Arab quarter. Later, the Waqf Foundation did conduct some of excavations of their own which were not properly conducted by archaeologists but what was damaged was Crusader sites not anything to do with the Jews. I don't know any Palestinians who deny that there were Jews in Jerusalem 3000 years ago. There were Jews in Jerusalem during the entire time Muslims ruled the area. It was only the Romans/Byzantines that wouldn't let them live there. In any case, what difference does it make whether there were Jews in Palestine 3000 years ago? 3000 years ago my ancestors were Celts just entering Europe. Doesn't give me any special rights there.

 

[DennisTate]

Of course. But I'm referring specifically to the use of holy sites or commercial purposes.



I'm not sure which excavations you are talking about. When I first visited Israel the Palestinians were complaining that the Israelis were tunneling under the Temple Mount, weakening the Aqsa mosque and also damaging the Arab quarter. Later, the Waqf Foundation did conduct some of excavations of their own which were not properly conducted by archaeologists but what was damaged was Crusader sites not anything to do with the Jews. I don't know any Palestinians who deny that there were Jews in Jerusalem 3000 years ago. There were Jews in Jerusalem during the entire time Muslims ruled the area. It was only the Romans/Byzantines that wouldn't let them live there. In any case, what difference does it make whether there were Jews in Palestine 3000 years ago? 3000 years ago my ancestors were Celts just entering Europe. Doesn't give me any special rights there.

What the Waqf has already done on the Temple Mount is in some ways just as bad as those other crooks that Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus chased of the Temple grounds during his lifetime.........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excavations_at_the_Temple_Mount

Since Israel took control of the Old City in 1967, archaeological excavations in the vicinity of the Mount have been undertaken by Israeland the Jordanian/Palestinian-led Jerusalem Islamic Waqf. Both excavations have been controversial and criticized. Israeli and Jewish groups have criticized excavations conducted by the Waqf, the Muslim authority in charge of the Al-Aqsa Mosque.

 

[smaneck]

I don't know a whole lot about that......

I recently ran into a theory put forward by Ernest Martin that the actual Temple of Solomon may have been over the Gihon Spring...... also a good distance away from The Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque.......

Just look up Ernest Martin on Wikipedia.... it is quite interesting......

Yeah, but what his bio indicates he hasn't a single degree in archaeology and that his PhD was not from an institution that was accredited at the time. Ambassador College doesn't get accredited until 1994 and the school closes in 1997. He got his PhD in education from them in 1966 which qualified him only to teach at Ambassador College.
I don't take seriously these kinds of claims that don't pass academic peer-reviewm but given his links with the WW Church of God is just as well that those members believe it. It might prevent attacks like the one made by one church member who attempted to burn down the Aqsa Mosque. I saw the damage he did with my own eyes.

 

[smaneck]

What the Waqf has already done on the Temple Mount is in some ways just as bad as those other crooks that Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus chased of the Temple grounds during his lifetime.........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excavations_at_the_Temple_Mount

You did get the part where this article says that the Waqf destroyed Crusader sites, not Jewish ones? It is unfortunate, because those are historically important as well but they are certainly not sacred.

 

[DennisTate]

Yeah, but what his bio indicates he hasn't a single degree in archaeology and that his PhD was not from an institution that was accredited at the time. Ambassador College doesn't get accredited until 1994 and the school closes in 1997. He got his PhD in education from them in 1966 which qualified him only to teach at Ambassador College.
I don't take seriously these kinds of claims that don't pass academic peer-reviewm but given his links with the WW Church of God is just as well that those members believe it. It might prevent attacks like the one made by one church member who attempted to burn down the Aqsa Mosque. I saw the damage he did with my own eyes.

But..... if you do more research you will see that his major ideas were a quotation from one of Israel's most accomplished and most educated archaeologists.

 

[DennisTate]

You did get the part where this article says that the Waqf destroyed Crusader sites, not Jewish ones? It is unfortunate, because those are historically important as well but they are certainly not sacred.

There are other articles on this general topic than this one and many of them go into specifics on how the Waqf
seems to be attempting to get rid of evidence from the time of King Solomon!

No Crusaders were around at that time!

 

[smaneck]

But..... if you do more research you will see that his major ideas were a quotation from one of Israel's most accomplished and most educated archaeologists.

Well, then quote the works of this archaeologist rather than that of a Christian apologist.