Works Relation to Salvation

[SabbathBlessings]

Will you please stop and think about what you’re writing before you post it? You’re pretending that Christians who don’t observe the sabbath have no relationship with Him, that we completely forsake Him when that’s not even close to the truth because we don’t go to church on Sunday to avoid Him. Do you honestly think that Christians go to church on Sunday to rebel against God? That would be among the top 10 most ridiculous ideas I’ve ever heard of. Why would anyone who wants to rebel against God or to avoid Him entirely ever step foot in a church and sing songs of praise & glory to Him then sit and read the scriptures to learn His word? Can’t you see how astronomically outrageous that sounds?

I am sure there are many God-loving Sunday-keeping Christians living up to the light they have. Sabbath-keeping does not automatically grant a pass into the Kingdom either as there is much more to following God, although part of it. I imagine there will be many saved and many lost in both groups That said, once we know the Truth, we should not make haste in obeying God's commandments. Psa 119:60 We are to come out of our false teachings John 3:19-21 Rev 18:4 as we must worship in Truth and Spirit John 4:23-24 and all of God's commandments are Truth Psa 119:151

It's like if you had a friend and they were married and having an affair with someone and think they are right in God's eyes and you know the Truth, wouldn't you want to share that with them? It doesn't mean one person is better than another, we are all God's children, but if you see someone wanting to touch a hot stove, you should warn them for their own good. Scripture tells us there is a way that seems right to a man but it turns out to be the wrong path. Proverbs 14:12

Jesus addressed this very thing, when He said those who keep their traditions, which is what Sunday-keeping is over the commandments of God, which is what the Sabbath is, is worshipping in vain. Mat 15:3-9 these are not my words and this message is because Jesus loves each of us so much and He wants us to follow Him, even if it doesn't make sense. It makes perfect sense to me, but someone who always went to church on Sunday I can see how it could be difficult.

Scripture tells us how we know God...

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

And those who don't know Him
1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Jesus tells us to keep the least of the commandments quoting from the Ten Mat 5:19-30 I do not think the least commandment is the only commandment that uses the words “holy” and is ‘blessed by God‘ and the one God said ‘Remember‘, but even if were least, we are still told to keep, and to not break or teach others to break.

I know most think SDA’s and other Sabbath-keeping denominations are out there, a peculiar people, but look how many people thought Noah was out there and many didn’t believe him until it was too late. Scripture says the Second Coming will be like the days of Noah. Mat 24:27

God wants to bless us and He made the Sabbath, not as punishment for man, but to sanctify and bless. Eze 20:12, Isa 58:13 Sure we could spend time with God on any day, but if it takes away from keeping one of God's commandments, I think we need to head the warning from Jesus. God cared about a tree in Eden, He cares about the day He calls "holy" "sanctified" and "blessed" "made for "mankind" and is a commandment, the one God said Remember. If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15 Anyway, hopefully something to consider in prayer.

 

[Bob S]

I see a problem with your approach to scripture. Other scripture refutes your ideas and you ignore that scripture. That's not good.

Hi Gary, I ignore nothing. It is you that is ignoring the fact that what Isaiah wrote in chapter 65 and 66 is not an accurate portrayal of the new earth yet you and the rest of Adventism keep using verse 23 as a proof text for Sabbath keeping. Take your blinder off and read texts as they are. You made excuses for 2Cor3:6-11, Eph 2:10-15, Col2:15-16 and Matt5:17-19. Verse 19 tells you, Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven yet you set aside all of the feast days, cutting sideburns, etc. and demand we have to keep the Sabbath of the old covenant or loose our eternal inheritance.

The truth is that Jesus fulfilled, brought to an end, the old covenant with its Sabbath requirement and all of the ceremonial laws.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hi Gary, I ignore nothing. It is you that is ignoring the fact that what Isaiah wrote in chapter 65 and 66 is not an accurate portrayal of the new earth yet you and the rest of Adventism keep using verse 23 as a proof text for Sabbath keeping. Take your blinder off and read texts as they are. You made excuses for 2Cor3:6-11, Eph 2:10-15, Col2:15-16 and Matt5:17-19. Verse 19 tells you, Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven yet you set aside all of the feast days, cutting sideburns, etc. and demand we have to keep the Sabbath of the old covenant or loose our eternal inheritance.

The truth is that Jesus fulfilled, brought to an end, the old covenant with its Sabbath requirement and all of the ceremonial laws.

Jesus is quoting from the Ten, Mat 5:19-30 the feast days are not part of the Ten Commandments.

 

[Bob S]

I am sure there are many God-loving Sunday-keeping Christians living up to the light they have. Sabbath-keeping does not automatically grant a pass into the Kingdom either as there is much more to following God, although part of it. I imagine there will be many saved and many lost in both groups That said, once we know the Truth, we should not make haste in obeying God's commandments. Psa 119:60 We are to come out of our false teachings John 3:19-21 Rev 18:4 as we must worship in Truth and Spirit John 4:23-24 and all of God's commandments are Truth Psa 119:151

The real truth is that Jesus fulfilled, brought to an end, the old covenant with its laws dealing with ceremonies at Calvary where the new covenant was ratified with Jesus own blood. Gentile nations were never under the old covenant with the Sabbath requirement. That is a fact, but as in the past you will continue to ignore and quote unrelated scripture.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I agree God is not responsible for sin, but that isn't what your comment implied.

My post had absolutely nothing to do with responsibility of sin. You do realize that a sin is not a sin until God forbids it, right?

 

[Gary K]

Hi Gary, I ignore nothing. It is you that is ignoring the fact that what Isaiah wrote in chapter 65 and 66 is not an accurate portrayal of the new earth yet you and the rest of Adventism keep using verse 23 as a proof text for Sabbath keeping. Take your blinder off and read texts as they are. You made excuses for 2Cor3:6-11, Eph 2:10-15, Col2:15-16 and Matt5:17-19. Verse 19 tells you, Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven yet you set aside all of the feast days, cutting sideburns, etc. and demand we have to keep the Sabbath of the old covenant or loose our eternal inheritance.

The truth is that Jesus fulfilled, brought to an end, the old covenant with its Sabbath requirement and all of the ceremonial laws.

So as far as you're concerned the Bible argues with itself. You're in conflict with your Savior.

Mat_12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

That is pretty serious. You might want to rethink that position. Any apparent contraditions in God'a word are from our own misunderstandings.

 

[Gary K]

My post had absolutely nothing to do with responsibility of sin. You do realize that a sin is not a sin until God forbids it, right?

He did.

Rom_14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

How did Adam and Eve sin if the law of faith did not exist as they demonstrated no faith in God's word by believing the devil?

 

[BNR32FAN]

So keeping the Sabbath day holy doesn't mean we should do the one thing that assures our righteousness and that is to set aside the day to work on our relationship with God by worshiping Him?

Worshipping on the sabbath ensures your righteousness? I think you might want to rethink that brother. Were the Pharisees righteous? The Galatians also thought they could attain righteousness by obedience to the law, perhaps you should review that epistle.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The real truth is that Jesus fulfilled, brought to an end, the old covenant with its laws dealing with ceremonies at Calvary where the new covenant was ratified with Jesus own blood. Gentile nations were never under the old covenant with the Sabbath requirement. That is a fact, but as in the past you will continue to ignore and quote unrelated scripture.

Weird- Jesus quoted from the Ten Commandments when He said not to break the least of them or teach others to break and warns us in doing so one would be least in heaven Mat 5:19-30 so it appears either Jesus is mistaken or you might not understand the New Covenant, where God writes His law in our hearts and minds instead of deleting them.

Anyway, we will have to agree to disagree. Take care

 

[Gary K]

Worshipping on the sabbath ensures your righteousness? I think you might want to rethink that brother. Were the Pharisees righteous? The Galatians also thought they could attain righteousness by obedience to the law, perhaps you should review that epistle.

Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

Sanctification and the Sabbath are inextricably linked together. You will find no such promises linked to any other day of the week.

I'll stick with God and His promises.

 

[Bob S]

Jesus is quoting from the Ten, Mat 5:19-30 the feast days are not part of the Ten Commandments.

Hi SB, how can you possibly believe Jesus was referring to JUST the 10 commandments? Things like that is what keep SDAs from knowing the real truth.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hi SB, how can you possibly believe Jesus was referring to JUST the 10 commandments? Things like that is what keep SDAs from knowing the real truth.

Because He quoted directly from them, the same commandments He spoke and wrote and added NO MORE. Deut 5:22 these are a stand alone unit. Are there other laws we should keep that are sub-laws to the Ten sure, but the law Jesus was quoting from when He said this was the Ten. But glad you admit, they include the Ten in the least commandments Jesus in His own Words told us to keep and to teach others to keep and told us not to break the least or teach others to break, so our teachings matter and we will be accountable for.

Need to run- Happy Sabbath all!

 

[BNR32FAN]

No shred of evidence? We see the Sabbath in the very first week of Creation Gen 2:1-3, made for man Mark 2:27 man was created on the sixth day made in the image of God to follow Him. Gen 1:26. I don't think it's an honest way to interpret the scriptures when the Sabbath commandment is almost identical to the Sabbath in Creation week.

No one even knew about God ordaining the sabbath until Moses wrote Genesis. That’s why you can’t find any evidence that a single person observed the sabbath before Exodus.

“You divided the sea before them, So they passed through the midst of the sea on dry ground; And their pursuers You hurled into the depths, Like a stone into raging waters. And with a pillar of cloud You led them by day, And with a pillar of fire by night To light for them the way In which they were to go. Then You came down on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, And laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses.”
‭‭Nehemiah‬ ‭9‬:‭11‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The sabbath was made known to the Israelites by Moses, which means they didn’t know about the Sabbath before Moses.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Because He quoted directly from them, the same commandments He spoke and wrote and added NO MORE. Deut 5:22 these are a stand alone unit. Are there other laws we should keep that are sub-laws to the Ten sure, but the law Jesus was quoting from when He said this was the Ten. But glad you admit, they include the Ten in the least commandments Jesus in His own Words told us to keep and to teach others to keep and told us not to break the least or teach others to break, so our teachings matter and we will be accountable for.

Need to run- Happy Sabbath all!

He didn’t only quote the 10 commandments in that particular sermon.

““It was said, ‘Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce’;”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5‬:‭31‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

““You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5‬:‭38‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

God said it is a commandment right in the Ten Exo 20:6 After He wrote and He spoke the Ten commandments, Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 Deut 5:13 He added no more- so your argument that somehow God treated the Sabbath commandment differently than the other 9 commandments is not with man.

Lev 23:3 3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

No you need to read Leviticus 23 again this was after the 10 commandments were given. Leviticus 1 begins with God speaking to Moses from the tent of meeting which wasn’t constructed until Exodus 39.

“Then the Lord called to Moses and spoke to him from the tent of meeting, saying,”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Thus all the work of the tabernacle of the tent of meeting was completed; and the sons of Israel did according to all that the Lord had commanded Moses; so they did.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭39‬:‭32‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Leviticus 23 was NOT commended at Exodus 20 it was added afterwards which makes it an ordinance according to the SDA claims about commandments that were not part of the 10 commandments.

 

[Gary K]

No you need to read Leviticus 23 again this was after the 10 commandments were given. Leviticus 1 begins with God speaking to Moses from the tent of meeting which wasn’t constructed until Exodus 39.

“Then the Lord called to Moses and spoke to him from the tent of meeting, saying,”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Thus all the work of the tabernacle of the tent of meeting was completed; and the sons of Israel did according to all that the Lord had commanded Moses; so they did.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭39‬:‭32‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Leviticus 23 was NOT commended at Exodus 20 it was added afterwards which makes it an ordinance according to the SDA claims about commandments that were not part of the 10 commandments.

And what differnce does that make?. I see your arguments all the time saying beliefs that used to valid are no longer valid.

 

[BNR32FAN]

He did.



How did Adam and Eve sin if the law of faith did not exist as they demonstrated no faith in God's word by believing the devil?

The Sabbath commandment was not commanded to Adam & Eve. God didn’t give the sabbath commandment until Moses that’s why the Israelites didn’t know about it until Moses told them.

“You divided the sea before them, So they passed through the midst of the sea on dry ground; And their pursuers You hurled into the depths, Like a stone into raging waters. And with a pillar of cloud You led them by day, And with a pillar of fire by night To light for them the way In which they were to go. Then You came down on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, And laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses.”
‭‭Nehemiah‬ ‭9‬:‭11‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

And what differnce does that make?. I see your arguments all the time saying beliefs that used to valid are no longer valid.

Yeah God’s laws have changed several time. The dietary laws changed 4 times. Incest wasn’t forbidden until Mt Sinai. The Sabbath wasn’t given until Mt Sinai.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Sanctification and the Sabbath are inextricably linked together. You will find no such promises linked to any other day of the week.

I'll stick with God and His promises.

And He made the same promises about circumcision in the OLD COVENANT.

 

[Gary K]

Yeah God’s laws have changed several time. The dietary laws changed 4 times. Incest wasn’t forbidden until Mt Sinai. The Sabbath wasn’t given until Mt Sinai.

Do you know why incest was made illegal? Adam's sons and daughters married each other as there was no one else around. But more importantly the human body came from God's hand perfect in every in every respect. In other words there were no genetic mutations as there were by the time of the Iaraelites so that relatives marrying each other greatly increased the chances of birth defects. You don't believe that? Look at how life times dropped off after the flood. The earth's environment changed radically and we now have issues that cause many more genetic defects.

You're arguing against God's law based on a misunderstanding of His love for us.