Works Relation to Salvation

[BNR32FAN]

A holy assembly isn't a worship assembly? What else would you call a holy assembly other than worship?

A gathering of believers.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That's a strange point of view the way I read you. God is responsible for sin because He gave Adam and Eve a command? You're applying our sinful nature to Adam and Eve before they sinned.

I never implied that God is responsible for sin. I don’t understand how you arrived at that conclusion by what I wrote there brother but I assure you that I’ve said nothing to that effect. Now for Adam & Eve they did have a sinful nature before they had sinned otherwise they wouldn’t have sinned in the first place.

 

[BNR32FAN]

There is no commandment given that is shown when Cain killed Abel, just that is was sin. No law, no sin, so God’s law was obviously given. Rom 4:15

I absolutely agree with you on this and the dialog between God and Cain indicates that Cain did know what sin was. Furthermore judging by Cain’s reaction to God speaking to him I would conclude that God had spoken to him often because he doesn’t seem the least bit surprised to be conversing with the Almighty. So I do agree that the commandment against killing was given previously to Abel’s death but we can see that commandment being repeated numerous times throughout the scriptures long before Exodus. We don’t see a shred of evidence pertaining to observing the sabbath.

 

[Gary K]

If Isaiah's comments are" figurative" then wouldn't IS 66:23 also be figurative? I think you are digging a hole you cannot get out. You can deny any scripture with the figurative comment. Where does it stop? What we do know from reading 2Cor3:6-11 is that Jews are not under the 10 commandments. Gentile nations never have been.

I quoted you scripture that said sin and death would be no more and scripture to show that there is nothing on this planet's surface that can survive a heat that will melt the very elements that make up our earth.

 

[Gary K]

I never implied that God is responsible for sin. I don’t understand how you arrived at that conclusion by what I wrote there brother but I assure you that I’ve said nothing to that effect. Now for Adam & Eve they did have a sinful nature before they had sinned otherwise they wouldn’t have sinned in the first place.

You said Adam and Eve sinned because God gave them the command not to eat of the tree, at least I think that's what you were referring to as you just said command.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You said Adam and Eve sinned because God gave them the command not to eat of the tree, at least I think that's what you were referring to as you just said command.

No brother, I said that Adam & Eve wouldn’t be sinning against God by not resting on the sabbath if God had not given that commandment to them.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If Isaiah's comments are" figurative" then wouldn't IS 66:23 also be figurative? I think you are digging a hole you cannot get out. You can deny any scripture with the figurative comment. Where does it stop? What we do know from reading 2Cor3:6-11 is that Jews are not under the 10 commandments. Gentile nations never have been.

If Isaiah 66:23 saying they will worship from sabbath to sabbath means that these priests will worship every sabbath so we must continue to observe the sabbath then the term from new moon to new moon would also mean the same thing that we must observe the new moon feasts which directly contradicts what Paul wrote in Colossians 2:16 which the SDA claims is only mentioning the ending of the new moon feasts and all the other sabbath days except for the Saturday Sabbath. So when you quote Colossians 2:16 they’ll say that the new moon feasts have ceased but they’re not applying that same reasoning to Isaiah 66:23 which says they will worship from new moon to new moon and from sabbath to sabbath. So they’re ignoring the part of that verse pertaining to the new moon feasts. So like I keep saying they’re not being consistent in their line of reasoning.

 

[Leaf473]

Beause there will be no death in heaven. No death means no meat eating in heaven.

Okay, thanks. So just the ten commandments and dietary laws.

Some Seventh-Day observers also add tithing laws as eternal. But do you say Jesus wasn't talking about those in the sermon on the Mount?

 

[Gary K]

No brother, I said that Adam & Eve wouldn’t be sinning against God by not resting on the sabbath if God had not given that commandment to them.

So, you admit that you are saying God is responsible for sin because sin is the transgression of the law and whatsoever is not of faith. They surely didn't show faith by sinning and neither do we. Here is what you actually said,

They wouldn’t be rebelling against God if the commandment hadn’t been given.

 

[Icyspark]

So, you admit that you are saying God is responsible for sin because sin is the transgression of the law and whatsoever is not of faith. They surely didn't show faith by sinning and neither do we. Here is what you actually said,

Hi Gary K,

Paul put it this way, "Where there is no law there is no transgression," and "sin is not charged against anyone's account where there is no law."

However, to say that God is "responsible for sin" is irresponsible.

God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Icyspark]

No what this proves is that God had more than just 10 commandments. Abraham kept the commandments God had given at that time. What you’re doing is making up doctrines that have no biblical support. The word sabbath doesn’t appear anywhere in the Bible until Exodus 16.

Hi BNR32FAN,

I've addressed this concern in a thread I started titled, "Creation Sabbath Origin." If you'd like to take a look I think you might find it helpful in understanding the biblical foundation for this discussion.

Here's a brief, yet tantalizing snippet from that thread which succinctly responds to your comment highlighted in red above:

From Genesis:

“... And God (4) blessed the seventh day and declared it (5) holy,”​

From Exodus:

“... the LORD (4) blessed the Sabbath day and made it (5) holy.”​

God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Bob S]

I quoted you scripture that said sin and death would be no more and scripture to show that there is nothing on this planet's surface that can survive a heat that will melt the very elements that make up our earth.

But you didn't address my post. So which is the real truth? Is IS 66:23 the real truth? Seems according to you it is, but the remainder of Is 65 and 66 about the New Earth is just figment.

 

[Gary K]

But you didn't address my post. So which is the real truth? Is IS 66:23 the real truth? Seems according to you it is, but the remainder of Is 65 and 66 about the New Earth is just figment.

I see a problem with your approach to scripture. Other scripture refutes your ideas and you ignore that scripture. That's not good.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So, you admit that you are saying God is responsible for sin because sin is the transgression of the law and whatsoever is not of faith. They surely didn't show faith by sinning and neither do we. Here is what you actually said,

If God tells someone not to do something and they do it, He has not caused them to disobey them. Therefore the fault lays on the one who disobeyed not on God who made the commandment.

 

[Leaf473]

Hi Gary, I believe the ball is in your court. If you don't want to talk anymore, that's fine

Okay, thanks. So just the ten commandments and dietary laws.

Some Seventh-Day observers also add tithing laws as eternal. But do you say Jesus wasn't talking about those in the sermon on the Mount?

 

[BNR32FAN]

A holy assembly isn't a worship assembly? What else would you call a holy assembly other than worship?

I just realized that a Holy convocation is not listed among the requirements in the 10 commandments in Exodus 20 so according to SDA advocates it’s actually considered an ordinance not one of the 10 commandments since all other commandments outside of the 10 are considered as ordinances.

 

[Gary K]

If God tells someone not to do something and they do it, He has not caused them to disobey them. Therefore the fault lays on the one who disobeyed not on God who made the commandment.

I agree God is not responsible for sin, but that isn't what your comment implied.

 

[Gary K]

I just realized that a Holy convocation is not listed among the requirements in the 10 commandments in Exodus 20 so according to SDA advocates it’s actually considered an ordinance not one of the 10 commandments since all other commandments outside of the 10 are considered as ordinances.

So keeping the Sabbath day holy doesn't mean we should do the one thing that assures our righteousness and that is to set aside the day to work on our relationship with God by worshiping Him?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I absolutely agree with you on this and the dialog between God and Cain indicates that Cain did know what sin was. Furthermore judging by Cain’s reaction to God speaking to him I would conclude that God had spoken to him often because he doesn’t seem the least bit surprised to be conversing with the Almighty. So I do agree that the commandment against killing was given previously to Abel’s death but we can see that commandment being repeated numerous times throughout the scriptures long before Exodus. We don’t see a shred of evidence pertaining to observing the sabbath.

No shred of evidence? We see the Sabbath in the very first week of Creation Gen 2:1-3, made for man Mark 2:27 man was created on the sixth day made in the image of God to follow Him. Gen 1:26. I don't think it's an honest way to interpret the scriptures when the Sabbath commandment is almost identical to the Sabbath in Creation week.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I just realized that a Holy convocation is not listed among the requirements in the 10 commandments in Exodus 20 so according to SDA advocates it’s actually considered an ordinance not one of the 10 commandments since all other commandments outside of the 10 are considered as ordinances.

God said it is a commandment right in the Ten Exo 20:6 After He wrote and He spoke the Ten commandments, Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 Deut 5:13 He added no more- so your argument that somehow God treated the Sabbath commandment differently than the other 9 commandments is not with man.

Lev 23:3 3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.