works based salvation

[BNR32FAN]

Okay if you want to add to faith, all these additional conditions, and still call it faith only, I cannot stop you

lol unconditional salvation is not so unconditional when you really examine it closely.

 

[Albion]

Okay if you want to add to faith, all these additional conditions, and still call it faith only, I cannot stop you

Ah, so there is also a problem at your end with understanding the meaning of "only" in addition to understanding the meaning of "works."

 

[pescador]

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Ephesians 2:8,9

The order for salvation is grace -> through faith -> to do good works.

So he who does not have good works does not have the grace of God.

That is fallacious reasoning. Suppose one is unable to do "good works", such as someone in a nursing home? Does that mean that they don't have the grace of GOD?

FYI, God's grace is given without condition to all who believe in Him. It is not earned!

 

[pescador]

lol unconditional salvation is not so unconditional when you really examine it closely.

Would you explain this further? Do you mean that God has put conditions on salvation?

 

[BNR32FAN]

That is fallacious reasoning. Suppose one is unable to do "good works", such as someone in a nursing home? Does that mean that they don't have the grace of GOD?

FYI, God's grace is given without condition to all who believe in Him. It is not earned!

It’s not the works that saves, it’s the motivation behind the works. Are we abiding in Christ and is He abiding in us.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Would you explain this further? Do you mean that God has put conditions on salvation?

Absolutely. If there were no conditions for salvation then everyone would be saved. Even universalists believe in conditional salvation.

 

[pescador]

Absolutely. If there were no conditions for salvation then everyone would be saved. Even universalists believe in conditional salvation.

So salvation is earned?? Paul, God's apostle to the non-Jews, wrote to those in Ephesus, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

Salvation is not, and never has been, conditional. It is God's gift to anyone who accepts it. Period.

 

[pescador]

It’s not the works that saves, it’s the motivation behind the works. Are we abiding in Christ and is He abiding in us.

The motivation behind "the works" saves you? Really? "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

 

[Albion]

So salvation is earned??

He didn't say that. He referred to there being conditions.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So salvation is earned?? Paul, God's apostle to the non-Jews, wrote to those in Ephesus, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

Salvation is not, and never has been, conditional. It is God's gift to anyone who accepts it. Period.

So what about those who don’t accept it? Are they saved? Oh and what about those who don’t abide in Christ?

 

[pescador]

He didn't say that. He referred to there being conditions.

And those conditions, beyond believing that salvation is God's free gift, are..?

 

[pescador]

So what about those who don’t accept it? Are they saved? Oh and what about those who don’t abide in Christ?

If you reject God's gift of salvation then you are, by definition, not saved. It's no mystery.

Those who don't abide in Christ? What are you trying to say?

 

[Albion]

And those conditions, beyond believing that salvation is God's free gift, are..?

God has to do something, right?

 

[pescador]

God has to do something, right?

Say what? I have no idea what you're talking about.

BTW, God doesn't have to do anything; He operates according to His own free will. After all, He is God!!

 

[BNR32FAN]

If you reject God's gift of salvation then you are, by definition, not saved. It's no mystery.

Those who don't abide in Christ? What are you trying to say?

What about those who don’t remain in Christ?

 

[pescador]

What about those who don’t remain in Christ?

As I said above, "If you reject God's gift of salvation then you are, by definition, not saved. It's no mystery."

 

[BNR32FAN]

If you reject God's gift of salvation then you are, by definition, not saved. It's no mystery.

Those who don't abide in Christ? What are you trying to say?

Why is the person who rejects grace not saved?

 

[BNR32FAN]

As I said above, "If you reject God's gift of salvation then you are, by definition, not saved. It's no mystery."

But we’re talking about someone who was in Christ but didn’t remain in Him.

 

[Albion]

And those conditions, beyond believing that salvation is God's free gift, are..?

Him granting Grace to the individual, for example.

 

[pescador]

Why is the person who rejects grace not saved?

Since salvation is a gift from God... If you throw away a gift, by definition you no longer have it, whether it's from God or anyone else.