Working Class Ditching Dem Party In Droves As Some Say It’s ‘Fighting For Everybody Else’ Besides Americans

[A2SG]

They need to find a way through the opposing party labeling what they are, but really aren't. I think the saying goes, and it speaks to the horrid Dem messaging, if you don't define who you are, your opponent will define who you are.

I agree the Democratic party is terrible at messaging, and the GOP excels at it. That's a definite failing.

Also, the party has long been pretty inconsistent. When they're in power, they can't seem to focus enough to get through a cohesive agenda, seeming to scatter their efforts all over the place; when they're not in power, they resort to feckless whining and complaining instead of attempting actual governing.

I think a large part of the problem is that the Democratic party is leaderless at the moment. President Biden certainly can't do it now, and Harris hasn't proven herself to be an effective leader in his stead, nor has she even tried since the election. President Obama has pretty much stepped back, probably to allow for new leadership since he's out of the public sphere, but it might be helpful if he did take up some form of leadership role, even if that of an elder statesman to help the next wave of leaders to come.

There are a handful of democrats dipping their toes in the water for a possible run in 2028, but most are being cautious about it. Gavin Newsom seems to be trying to attract national attention, and perhaps he might be good if he keeps at it, but he does seem to be pretty busy with his own issues over there in California. I've heard a few other names bandied about here and there, but no strong voices are raising above the usual noise.

One of the few things I'll credit Trump with is his unparalleled ability at self-promotion. He gets his name out there all the time, and sucks all the attention all for himself every time he does. Democrats need someone who can compete with that, but that's proven to be very, very difficult.

-- A2SG, I'd almost say that Democrats need their own Trump, but I can't think of any qualified convicted felons we have available....

 

[A2SG]

I'm not interested in getting into a protracted argument with you.

Isn't that what this board is for? What should we be doing instead, swapping recipes?

Whatever you have to argue against it and say against it, doesn't change the way it is. It being why the DNC is becoming less popular and the GOP is becoming more popular.

See a previous post, where I elaborate on the problems with the party, as I see them.

If you're interested in a discussion, that is.

-- A2SG, unless you'd rather get my killer toffee cookie recipe....

 

[ozso]

I think Bill Maher has a really good take on what's wrong with the Democrat party. He's not a republican and he's not a Trump supporter.

 

[ozso]

I agree the Democratic party is terrible at messaging, and the GOP excels at it. That's a definite failing.

Also, the party has long been pretty inconsistent. When they're in power, they can't seem to focus enough to get through a cohesive agenda, seeming to scatter their efforts all over the place; when they're not in power, they resort to feckless whining and complaining instead of attempting actual governing.

I think a large part of the problem is that the Democratic party is leaderless at the moment. President Biden certainly can't do it now, and Harris hasn't proven herself to be an effective leader in his stead, nor has she even tried since the election. President Obama has pretty much stepped back, probably to allow for new leadership since he's out of the public sphere, but it might be helpful if he did take up some form of leadership role, even if that of an elder statesman to help the next wave of leaders to come.

There are a handful of democrats dipping their toes in the water for a possible run in 2028, but most are being cautious about it. Gavin Newsom seems to be trying to attract national attention, and perhaps he might be good if he keeps at it, but he does seem to be pretty busy with his own issues over there in California. I've heard a few other names bandied about here and there, but no strong voices are raising above the usual noise.

One of the few things I'll credit Trump with is his unparalleled ability at self-promotion. He gets his name out there all the time, and sucks all the attention all for himself every time he does. Democrats need someone who can compete with that, but that's proven to be very, very difficult.

I think competing with Trump regarding what makes Trump so Trumpy is a bad idea. Newsome gave it a whirl and it was pretty cringeworthy. But they definitely need someone with lots of bearing and charisma and who's articulate. But ahead of that, someone who has good practical ideas. Tampons in boys restrooms for example is the opposite of a good practical idea.

 

[A2SG]

I think competing with Trump regarding what makes Trump so Trumpy is a bad idea. Newsome gave it a whirl and it was pretty cringeworthy.

I don't know, I think he made his point. Whether it works remains to be seen, of course, but it got attention.

And that's where democrats really are in competition with Trump. He's absorbing all the news focus to him, making it seem like he's the only newsworthy thing in the world. And I'm sure Trump feels this is actually the case. But, for democrats to begin to make inroads to a national profile, they need to make their voices heard over the noise created by Trump and his campaign of misinformation and lies. Newsome is trying to do that.

It's a start.

But they definitely need someone with lots of bearing and charisma and who's articulate. But ahead of that, someone who has good practical ideas. Tampons in boys restrooms for example is the opposite of a good practical idea.

I highly doubt tampons have been anyone's campaign strategy. But I can agree that democrats need to put forth their own ideas, and better ones. Using the ACA as their signature legislation achievement, for example, was a big mistake, in my opinion. Why adopt conservative ideas from the Heritage foundation when better ideas exist, such as a working single payer health care plan? If democrats put forth a viable single payer plan that worked, I can almost guarantee the votes would be there.

Though, the GOP would certainly do the bidding of the for-profit health insurance industry and work overtime to ensure their millions of dollars in profit generated every single year continue to line the pockets of the CEOs. That is their true constituency, after all.

But you are right, the party does need an effective communicator who can deliver this message clearly and concisely to the voters, and not leave that to Trump and MAGA to do it for them.

-- A2SG, could that be Newsome? We'll see.....

 

[ozso]

I don't know, I think he made his point. Whether it works remains to be seen, of course, but it got attention.

And that's where democrats really are in competition with Trump. He's absorbing all the news focus to him, making it seem like he's the only newsworthy thing in the world. And I'm sure Trump feels this is actually the case. But, for democrats to begin to make inroads to a national profile, they need to make their voices heard over the noise created by Trump and his campaign of misinformation and lies. Newsome is trying to do that.

It's a start.


I highly doubt tampons have been anyone's campaign strategy. But I can agree that democrats need to put forth their own ideas, and better ones. Using the ACA as their signature legislation achievement, for example, was a big mistake, in my opinion. Why adopt conservative ideas from the Heritage foundation when better ideas exist, such as a working single payer health care plan? If democrats put forth a viable single payer plan that worked, I can almost guarantee the votes would be there.

Though, the GOP would certainly do the bidding of the for-profit health insurance industry and work overtime to ensure their millions of dollars in profit generated every single year continue to line the pockets of the CEOs. That is their true constituency, after all.

But you are right, the party does need an effective communicator who can deliver this message clearly and concisely to the voters, and not leave that to Trump and MAGA to do it for them.

-- A2SG, could that be Newsome? We'll see.....

I wouldn't blame all that on Trump. The left seems to go nuclear over everything he says and does. Really he doesn't have to try much to get tons of attention from them. Which isn't a good look for the Democrats. Both Hillary's and Harris's campaigns were way too much about Trump.

 

[FireDragon76]

Let's see how that works for them!

Have you ever heard the phrase "out of the frying pan, into the fire?"

When they get burned, they'll be back nursing their wounds.

In a vibes-based cultural discourse, that's to be expected.

Yes, there's a policy-mismatch between Democrat rhetoric, and what they deliver. In a complex society with a variety of stakeholders, that's going to be the rule more than the exception. But in the Republican party, that's a chasm that is cynically glossed over by nostalgic vibes and evocative cultural symbols.

 

[A2SG]

I wouldn't blame all that on Trump.

Blame all what on Trump? I said he dominated the news cycle every time he speaks, and he does. He knows it, and he counts on it. Sure, I wish the news media wouldn't respond by covering him, but he is news.

The left seems to go nuclear over everything he says and does. Really he doesn't have to try much to get tons of attention from them.

True enough. Trump knows full well when he says something outrageous (usually to deflect attention from something else he's done or doing), the news media will report it, and democrats will fall for it. But that's becoming less and less true, as democrats are getting wise to the tactic. Slow to the table, but at least they got there.

Not sure if Trump has any other tools in his belt when that one doesn't work (as it's not working for the Epstein files), but I guess we'll see.

Which isn't a good look for the Democrats. Both Hillary's and Harris's campaigns were way too much about Trump.

No argument there, though moreso for Harris than Clinton. But Hilary did run a decent campaign, which could account for why more people voted for her than voted for Trump. But Trump got lucky with the electoral college, so...

I often wonder if the party's agenda would be better served if Hilary took on more of a leadership role than she has. Certainly, she can't do worse than what we have currently. AOC also seems like she's beginning to take on a more prominent leadership role. I'm not sure she's ready yet, but I do think she could legitimately grow into the role. Time will tell, I guess.

-- A2SG, both are still at a disadvantage, though, as there does seem to be a strong misogynistic streak among the electorate...but I'm still hopeful that will change....

 

[ozso]

Blame all what on Trump? I said he dominated the news cycle every time he speaks, and he does. He knows it, and he counts on it. Sure, I wish the news media wouldn't respond by covering him, but he is news.


True enough. Trump knows full well when he says something outrageous (usually to deflect attention from something else he's done or doing), the news media will report it, and democrats will fall for it. But that's becoming less and less true, as democrats are getting wise to the tactic. Slow to the table, but at least they got there.

Not sure if Trump has any other tools in his belt when that one doesn't work (as it's not working for the Epstein files), but I guess we'll see.


No argument there, though moreso for Harris than Clinton. But Hilary did run a decent campaign, which could account for why more people voted for her than voted for Trump. But Trump got lucky with the electoral college, so...

I often wonder if the party's agenda would be better served if Hilary took on more of a leadership role than she has. Certainly, she can't do worse than what we have currently. AOC also seems like she's beginning to take on a more prominent leadership role. I'm not sure she's ready yet, but I do think she could legitimately grow into the role. Time will tell, I guess.

-- A2SG, both are still at a disadvantage, though, as there does seem to be a strong misogynistic streak among the electorate...but I'm still hopeful that will change....

Back in the day they were saying Clinton's campaign was "I'm not Donald Trump" rather promoting her abilities. As for the dems/left finally starting to catch on after 8 years, they just had a major cow over his 2028 merch which was an obvious trolling. We'll have to see how it goes for them in 26. At least Newsom's term will be up.

 

[A2SG]

Back in the day they were saying Clinton's campaign was "I'm not Donald Trump" rather promoting her abilities.

Yup, I agree she leaned too much into that narrative. Granted, it got her more votes than he did, but if she had focused more on what she brought to the table, it just might have put her over the top,

As for the dems/left finally starting to catch on after 8 years, they just had a major cow over his 2028 merch which was an obvious trolling. We'll have to see how it goes for them in 26. At least Newsom's term will be up.

I'm not sure I'd classify the response as a major cow. A calf, maybe. But I think most recognized it for what it is.

-- A2SG, Newsome is someone to watch....

 

[Fantine]

The Catholic Church also stands for protecting the life of the unborn and in support of marriage between one man and one woman

seems you left those out

And giving lip service to those (almost always by those whose support costs them nothing) does not absolve one from running roughshod over the planet, putting one's possessions and wealth above all else, failing to recognize the interconnectedness of all life, living callously without empathy.

 

[Pommer]

Also, the party has long been pretty inconsistent. When they're in power, they can't seem to focus enough to get through a cohesive agenda, seeming to scatter their efforts all over the place; when they're not in power, they resort to feckless whining and complaining instead of attempting actual governing.

“I am not a member of an organized political party, I am a Democrat”.—Will Rogers about 100 years ago

 

[Always in His Presence]

And giving lip service to those (almost always by those whose support costs them nothing) does not absolve one from running roughshod over the planet, putting one's possessions and wealth above all else, failing to recognize the interconnectedness of all life, living callously without empathy.

I'm speaking of the church's very clear position on Protecting Babies and speaking out on homosexuality. You response is not based in fact and is vaguely reminiscent of something? If you are going to promote the teaching of the church - you really cannot cherry pick which teaching you choose to follow.

 

[Always in His Presence]

They need to find a way through the opposing party labeling what they are, but really aren't.

I understand what your saying, but in reality, at this point they really are their worst enemy. When an organization focuses on and actively promotes what is important to a minute cross section for the voting populace - it is never a productive action.

You can't get a majority of votes based on prioritizing a minority of voter

 

[DaisyDay]

They’re just out there somewhere stating evil is good and good evil. Make no sense to take the enemy into your shirt so he won’t kill you.

Who is?

 

[Fantine]

I'm speaking of the church's very clear position on Protecting Babies and speaking out on homosexuality. You response is not based in fact and is vaguely reminiscent of something? If you are going to promote the teaching of the church - you really cannot cherry pick which teaching you choose to follow.

Pope Francis allowed priests to "bless" gay unions---while continuously focusing on peace, environmental justice, poverty, human rights, immigration--all things Republicans ignore or actively oppose (yeah, bullying, extortion and threatening are not "peacemaking.")
As for abortion, I oppose it along with all the other issues. I am so overwhelmed by the monstrous evils going on, and believing that a better world would reduce abortions, I am not a single issue voter--nor am I required to be.

 

[BCP1928]

Blame all what on Trump? I said he dominated the news cycle every time he speaks, and he does. He knows it, and he counts on it. Sure, I wish the news media wouldn't respond by covering him, but he is news.


True enough. Trump knows full well when he says something outrageous (usually to deflect attention from something else he's done or doing), the news media will report it, and democrats will fall for it. But that's becoming less and less true, as democrats are getting wise to the tactic. Slow to the table, but at least they got there.

Not sure if Trump has any other tools in his belt when that one doesn't work (as it's not working for the Epstein files), but I guess we'll see.


No argument there, though moreso for Harris than Clinton. But Hilary did run a decent campaign, which could account for why more people voted for her than voted for Trump. But Trump got lucky with the electoral college, so...

I often wonder if the party's agenda would be better served if Hilary took on more of a leadership role than she has. Certainly, she can't do worse than what we have currently. AOC also seems like she's beginning to take on a more prominent leadership role. I'm not sure she's ready yet, but I do think she could legitimately grow into the role. Time will tell, I guess.

-- A2SG, both are still at a disadvantage, though, as there does seem to be a strong misogynistic streak among the electorate...but I'm still hopeful that will change....

No, she lost too much credibility as labor candidate when she muscled Bernie aside in 2016.

 

[A2SG]

No, she lost too much credibility as labor candidate when she muscled Bernie aside in 2016.

Yeah, there was that. Even now, Bernie continues to have a good amount of support, but he's really too old to effectively run. Maybe AOC can pick up the mantle. I'd certainly like to see her try. She'd be a breath of fresh air.

-- A2SG, something we really need about now....

 

[BCP1928]

Yeah, there was that. Even now, Bernie continues to have a good amount of support, but he's really too old to effectively run. Maybe AOC can pick up the mantle. I'd certainly like to see her try. She'd be a breath of fresh air.

-- A2SG, something we really need about now....

Bernie and AOC are on the right track and have the right message, but there has been a lot of effort being spent by Republicans and "moderate" Democrats to shove them aside. Both Republicans and Democrats are playing for the same neoliberals and are not parties of the working class. Dems tried to fool the working class by pandering to them one identity group at a time to keep them divided. That really didn't work so the Republicans tried to turn identity politics against the Dems with the culture war sex stuff and vague promises of pie in the sky which they obviously have no intention of keeping. Labor is going to have to play a long game and it's going to have to start in the House. If Trump keeps screwing up maybe Newsome has a chance, but if he wins he is going to owe a lot to labor and he is going to have to be made to realize it.

 

[A2SG]

Bernie and AOC are on the right track and have the right message, but there has been a lot of effort being spent by Republicans and "moderate" Democrats to shove them aside. Both Republicans and Democrats are playing for the same neoliberals and are not parties of the working class. Dems tried to fool the working class by pandering to them one identity group at a time to keep them divided. That really didn't work so the Republicans tried to turn identity politics against the Dems with the culture war sex stuff and vague promises of pie in the sky which they obviously have no intention of keeping. Labor is going to have to play a long game and it's going to have to start in the House. If Trump keeps screwing up maybe Newsome has a chance, but if he wins he is going to owe a lot to labor and he is going to have to be made to realize it.

I wholeheartedly agree labor has been neglected by the Democrats. If Bernie and AOC can get that message out, they might have a good chance. Newsome too.

-- A2SG, guess we'll see...the midterms could be very interesting, if Democrats don't muck up the opportunity.....