Women ruling, a bad thing?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tamara224

Well-Known Member
Jan 13, 2006
13,285
2,396
Wyoming
✟40,734.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Actually you won't.

Of course not. Neither will you find the any passages meeting those qualifications with regard to men. That's my point.

There is no mention of women as priestesses when the Levitical/Aaronic priesthood was established.
Irrelevant. The current priesthood isn't according to the Levitical order.

Nor is there any mention of women priestesses in Scripture regarding our High Priest, Jesus, in the order of Melchizedek.
Yes there is.
5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
(1 Peter 2)

Which part in that says this applies only to men? It's ALL believers, male and female.

You're making a very serious charge against your sisters and brothers in Christ who disagree with your interpretation of Scripture.

Serious charge?...gimmee a break!
Ever heard the term "Don't shoot the messenger?"
So, now you're claiming you got a direct word from God that He asked you to deliver to people on this topic?

Forgive me if I don't just accept your word for it.

I would challenge you, therefore, to provide the Scripture references on which you base you claim.

I've asked you to please provide me with Scripture that shows women leading men in worship as priests or priestesses in the churches/synagogues.
I know, and I did. And I asked you to provide Scripture. Why haven't you?

Where, exactly, are those "parameters" set forth in Scripture?

Start in Genesis, Sister and read forward.
No. You made a claim, you provide support. A general and vague "just read the whole Bible" is not an 'honest' answer to my request.

No, to be perfectly honest, I've not noticed that at all. Furthermore, I don't think it can be proven.

Well, it's happening. I don't have to prove it. Time will take care of that.
Nonsense.

On the contrary, I believe the weight of the historical evidence shows that when women are allowed the freedom to operate in the Gifts and Callings with which God has gifted and called them, the fruit of their ministry is undeniably good.

I never said anything about women not having gifts of the Spirit or not being called to ministry. Women can not lead men in worship before God.
And yet you can provide NO Scriptural support for this idea. Please show me in Scripture where it says women cannot lead men in worship before God.

You claim your point of view is the THE ONLY Biblical view and you have completely and utterly failed to provide any Scriptural support for that.

First, I think the way you've worded this is intentionally tailored narrowly so that it is impossible to answer. And so I would challenge you to provide Scripture wherein a man is a priest leading men in worship before God in church/synagogue.

Are you kidding? Jesus when He went to Nazareth. Paul in Thessalonica. Zechariah at the temple in Jerusalem. Levite priests at King Hezekiah's order in the temple.
Well, dear, most of those don't meet your own qualifications. Paul wasn't a priest. Jesus wasn't a priest. But...if in your mind those examples satisfy your own burden of proof. My proof that you requested is found in Romans 16, Priscilla confronting Apollos, Mary and the other women proclaiming the resurrection of Christ, and the women in Corinth prophesying in front of the whole congregation.

It's funny you should mention this because although Paul allows (concedes/states) that God uses women to utter prophecy, I don't find in Scripture one woman prophet uttering prophecy in the temple or any synagogue. Ana was in the temple compound however so maybe we could consider her...



What's your hang up with the Temple/synagogue? Can you show me any Scripture that says we must meet in those places? Can you show me any Scripture which says only when believers meet together in a specific type of building will the gender rules apply? You do know that most of the early Christian church met in people's homes, right?

And we definitely should consider Anna. A propehet prophesying in the Temple surely meets your qualifications.

A prophetess, however, is not a priestess. Prophecy is also from God's direction to the people, not from the people to God. BTW do you cover your head in worship before God? Just a question on the side.
What's your hang-up with priests? Can you show me some Scripture that says God appoints priests in the Body of Christ? Seems to me the positions talked of in the NT Church don't actually include "priest". Prophet, apostle, pastor, teacher, overseer, administrator.... No "priests".


And all of which has nothing to do with women leading men in worship before God. I have yet to witness a woman speaking in tongues during worship with interpretation and without an interpreter, it's just gibberish.
What you have or have not seen in your limited human experience is irrelevant. And all of that has everything to do with women leading in worship. God distributes the gifts - including teaching and prophesying for the benefit of all so that everyone can build up everyone else.

Yes, each of us is a part of the Body of Christ. Again, a prophet (man or woman) is not a priest/priestess. What goes before God from man in worship is to be pure and holy. God can use anyone He wants to deliver prophecy. After what Eve did, a woman leading a man before God is offensive to Him.
A prophet speaks for God. If a woman can be gifted to speak on God's behalf to the rest of the congregation... then she is "leading" that congregation in worship.

Your idea of what a "priest" is doesn't come from Scripture.
Prophecy is not "used in worship". Prophecy is given by God to man. You're getting the direction confused.
Yes it is. Look at 1 Cor 14. Paul discusses proper order in worship services... and how speaking in tongues only edifies the person speaking but "but the one who prophesies edifies the church." It can't edify "the church" if it's not done when the whole church is gathered.
23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25 as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”
Look at that! Prophecy is used to lead people to fall down and worship God!

And we know that women were expected to be among the "everyone" who is prophesying. Therefore, there's your example of women leading men in worship before God.

No he doesn't. He also doesn't say that women can be priests or lead men in worship.
Nor does he say that men can. Nor does he say that women can't.


And Miriam got smacked down big time for that!
Exodus 15
No, she didn't. What are you talking about? Miriam's leprosy episode came a long time later.


I've tried to respond to you as honestly as I can.
Look, no offense, but I don't think you have. You have demanded Scriptural support from others and yet have not had the courtesy to provide support yourself. I don't view that as an honest response.

I don't interpret Scripture. I take my Scripture straight up, not watered down or worse, on the rocks! It is what it is.
Uh, nope, try again. You're human, not God. Your understanding of Scripture is no more infallible than anyone else's.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Strong in Him
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,915
7,993
NW England
✟1,053,334.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There were female prophetesses in the OT - Miriam, Huldah and Deborah was a judge over all Israel, as well as a prophetess.

Exodus 15 records Miriam's song after the Israelites had been led through the Red Sea; Judges 5 records Deborah's after the Lord had spoken to her and given the nation victory over a foreign army.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
There were female prophetesses in the OT - Miriam, Huldah and Deborah was a judge over all Israel, as well as a prophetess.

Exodus 15 records Miriam's song after the Israelites had been led through the Red Sea; Judges 5 records Deborah's after the Lord had spoken to her and given the nation victory over a foreign army.
:thumbsup: :liturgy:

Exodus 15:1 Then Mosheh is singing and sons of Yisra'el the song, this to YHWH and they are saying to say of "I shall sing to YHWH that to exalt He exalts. Horse and one riding of him He heaved into sea [Reve 15:3]
2 Strenghth of me and melody of Yah. And He becoming to me for salvation. This one El of me and I shall adorn Him, Elohiym of father of me and I shall exalt Him"
Exodus 15:21 And Miriam is responding to them "sing ye to the LORD that to be triumphant He is triumphant, horse and rider He heaved into Sea.

Reve 15:3 And they are singing the Song of Moses, the bond-servant of the God and the Song of the Lambkin saying "great and marvelous the Works of Thee Lord! the God, the Almighty.
Just and true the ways of Thee, the King of the saints" [*ages/*nations].
[Exodus 15]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

sunlover1

Beloved, Let us love one another
Nov 10, 2006
26,146
5,348
Under the Shadow of the Almighty
✟94,511.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
lol I don't think it's an issue one way or another, I don't think they'll ever be a time when women will really have any power :o
You've never met my friends... or watched oprah lol.

I believe this is just one of those ways the society of the Bible, and the societies of modern day differ. Today woman chooses whether she wants to be subjugated, which means she has the power even when she pretends not to.
So, woman is a pretender? :p
 
Upvote 0

cubinity

jesus is; the rest is commentary.
Jun 11, 2010
3,171
403
✟20,090.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
So, woman is a pretender? :p

I always get a kick out of those women in church who explain that they submit to their husbands because that is God's design.

As I get to know those couples better, it occurs to me that the only reason she is submitted is because she chooses to be.

The moment she decides not to be, that whole model goes out the window.

Is that really her submitting to him, then?

It's more like a mutual/equal decision, controlled predominantly by her willingness to participate, that she will "submit" to her husband.

To me, that's pretending. ;)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ARBITER01

Legend
Aug 12, 2007
13,373
1,700
✟164,107.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
Nope. This was about salvation being for both male and female. Has nothing to do with the priesthood.

WOW, a lot went down while I took a nappy!

Sorry, GOD is no respecter of persons, He doesn't decide to view people according to gender in His church just because they have matured with Him.

GOD doesn't discriminate based on gender.
 
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Site Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
248,794
114,491
✟1,343,306.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
hmmmmm......

God is God. He may choose women to go where no man dareth to venture. Such was the situation, when He "appointed" Deborah to lead men into battle, when the men refused. God will choose who He does. He will confound those who find themselves wise, and raise up those who man may see as not worthy, in essence.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Sorry, GOD is no respecter of persons, He doesn't decide to view people according to gender in His church just because they have matured with Him.

GOD doesn't discriminate based on gender.
That is why I have decided to remove my "male" gender icon :D :p

http://www.christianforums.com/t7553003-5/#post57306745

I wonder if CF has an icon for "genderless"
confused.gif
blush.gif
 
Upvote 0

sunlover1

Beloved, Let us love one another
Nov 10, 2006
26,146
5,348
Under the Shadow of the Almighty
✟94,511.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I always get a kick out of those women in church who explain that they submit to their husbands because that is God's design.

As I get to know those couples better, it occurs to me that the only reason she is submitted is because she chooses to be.

The moment she decides not to be, that whole model goes out the window.

Is that really her submitting to him, then?

It's more like a mutual/equal decision, controlled predominantly by her willingness to participate, that she will "submit" to her husband.

To me, that's pretending. ;)
I was messing with you.
I know that what you say is truth most of the time.
But then again, I do know of women who totally submit
to their husbands as unto the Lord. (That's what HE said to do!)

IMO, the Lord, in His infinite love and wisdom gave this gift to
women as a blessing, but they don't realize it for what it is.

IMO, woman was created FOR man...
Unfortunately, men don't realize what a blessing it is either,
God said that when a man finds a wife he's found a GOOD thing
and that a good wife will do him good and not evil all the days
of her life.

These are some lofty words! and imo, only possible if the woman
is completely lost in love for her TRUE love, God.
Because it's out of that love that one finds the deep desire to
please HIM.
After all He's done for me... as with the lady with the alabaster box.
That type of deep abiding love. Only then is it possible IMO, to be
able to submit to the man completely.. (especially if she married a
mean arrogant hateful one or something. you know that He still
expects them to submit to the creepy ones! .. imo)

He deserves nothing but our best.
Do all you do, as unto God
:bow:
 
  • Like
Reactions: razeontherock
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

cubinity

jesus is; the rest is commentary.
Jun 11, 2010
3,171
403
✟20,090.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
I was messing with you.
I know that what you say is truth most of the time.
But then again, I do know of women who totally submit
to their husbands as unto the Lord. (That's what HE said to do!)

IMO, the Lord, in His infinite love and wisdom gave this gift to
women as a blessing, but they don't realize it for what it is.

IMO, woman was created FOR man...
Unfortunately, men don't realize what a blessing it is either,
God said that when a man finds a wife he's found a GOOD thing
and that a good wife will do him good and not evil all the days
of her life.

These are some lofty words! and imo, only possible if the woman
is completely lost in love for her TRUE love, God.
Because it's out of that love that one finds the deep desire to
please HIM.
After all He's done for me... as with the lady with the alabaster box.
That type of deep abiding love. Only then is it possible IMO, to be
able to submit to the man completely.. (especially if she married a
mean arrogant hateful one or something. you know that He still
expects them to submit to the creepy ones! .. imo)

He deserves nothing but our best.
Do all you do, as unto God
:bow:

I know you were messing.
I'm still working on how to project my playful voice in text.
Hence the wink. ;)
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Like a eunuch(sp?) icon?
Yepperz :)

Young) Matthew 19:12 for there are eunuchs who from the mother's womb were so born;
and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men;
and there are eunuchs who kept themselves eunuchs because of the reign of the heavens:
he who is able to receive [it] --let him receive.'

Eunuch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A eunuch (
11px-Loudspeaker.svg.png
/ˈjuːnək/; Greek: "Ευνούχος") is a castrated man, usually one castrated early enough to have major hormonal consequences.

Which reminds me of the eunuchs in this funny movie:

YouTube - Ice pirates

funny-dog-cartoon-neutered.gif
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

Jerushabelle

Well-Known Member
Oct 6, 2010
3,244
584
✟6,072.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Sorry, GOD is no respecter of persons, He doesn't decide to view people according to gender in His church just because they have matured with Him.

GOD doesn't discriminate based on gender.

Acts 10:34-35 addresses salvation and God's compassion/mercy for all people, Jews and Gentiles alike. Does not address gender.
 
Upvote 0

Blind As A Bat

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2011
1,302
436
There's something cold and blank, behind her smile
✟3,505.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Labour
Yepperz :)

Young) Matthew 19:12 for there are eunuchs who from the mother's womb were so born;
and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men;
and there are eunuchs who kept themselves eunuchs because of the reign of the heavens:
he who is able to receive [it] --let him receive.'

Eunuch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A eunuch (
11px-Loudspeaker.svg.png
/ˈjuːnək/; Greek: "Ευνούχος") is a castrated man, usually one castrated early enough to have major hormonal consequences.

Which reminds me of the eunuchs in this funny movie:

YouTube - Ice pirates

funny-dog-cartoon-neutered.gif
You were castrated? :mmh:
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Acts 10:34-35 addresses salvation and God's compassion/mercy for all people, Jews and Gentiles alike. Does not address gender.
What about Galatians 3 :confused:

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for YNG
"male female"
occurs in 19 verses in the YNG

Young) Galatians 3:28 there is not here Jew or Greek, there is not here servant nor freeman, there is not here male and female,
for all ye are one in Christ Jesus;
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.