Women ruling, a bad thing?

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addo

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I was reading the other day a passage in Isaiah and I came across this verse:
As for My people, children are their oppressors,
And women rule over them.
O My people! Those who lead you cause you to err,
And destroy the way of your paths.
~Isaiah 3:12 NKJV
It appears that women ruling over His people is sort of a bad thing.

Is it truly bad for women to rule?

If yes, is this something general or specific to the situation. In other words, is it almost always bad for women to rule (I suppose that in the sense of having some absolute power) or was it something specific of Israel in that time?

Thank you for reading this.

May God bless you,

Emanuel
 

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Perhaps God is talking symbolically about priestly men being as children and women?
Here are a few more translations of that verse:

Rotherham) Isaiah 3:12 My people! children, are their tyrants, And, women, rule over them,--My people! they who should lead thee forward, are causing thee to stray,

Young) Isaiah 3:12 My people--its exactors [are] sucklings, And women have ruled over it. My people--thy eulogists are causing to err, And the way of thy paths swallowed up.
Thy pathways, have they destroyed,

I find Revelation 9:8 rather interesting as it refers to the locuses have hairs of women.....

Reve 9:7 And the likenesses of the locusts like horses having been made ready into battle, and upon the heads of them, as crowns, like gold, and the faces of them as faces of men,
8 and they had hairs as hairs of women, and the teeth of them were as of lions,
[Isaiah 3:12]
 
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sunlover1

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I was reading the other day a passage in Isaiah and I came across this verse:
As for My people, children are their oppressors,
And women rule over them.
O My people! Those who lead you cause you to err,
And destroy the way of your paths.
~Isaiah 3:12 NKJV
It appears that women ruling over His people is sort of a bad thing.

Is it truly bad for women to rule?

If yes, is this something general or specific to the situation. In other words, is it almost always bad for women to rule (I suppose that in the sense of having some absolute power) or was it something specific of Israel in that time?

Thank you for reading this.

May God bless you,

Emanuel
Great question!
Not sure but here's what KJV commentary has:

The implication of the entire chapter is that when male leadership fails, it will naturally be replaced by female leadership and incompetent childish leadership. The chapter is not meant to be an indictment against women, but against the oppressive attitude of female dominance in light of masculine weakness. Every ancient country in the world knew the necessity of strong male leadership in the face of potential war. Failure always meant eventual and certain doom.

KJV Bible commentary. 1997 (Is 3:9). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
 
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Kaitlin08

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I think what Isaiah meant to draw attention to is that, when the men don't do their job, the women have to take over and, at the time Isaiah was written, the women were ill-equipped to do this. The reason they were ill-equipped is because they were kept out of public life by men.
 
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hedrick

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I was reading the other day a passage in Isaiah and I came across this verse:
As for My people, children are their oppressors,
And women rule over them.
O My people! Those who lead you cause you to err,
And destroy the way of your paths.
~Isaiah 3:12 NKJV
It appears that women ruling over His people is sort of a bad thing.

Is it truly bad for women to rule?

It's not so much that women ruling was in itself bad, as that (as Word Commentary says) "In a patriarchal society, the lack of mature male leadership is considered a sign of the total breakdown of social order and decency in the face of the devastations of war."

That is, it was a sign that Israel was in a disastrous situation. Also, the leadership involved was surely secular and family. I.e. so many people had been killed that many families were left without their heads, leaving children and wives trying to act as head of family. I rather doubt that there were female priests in the temple.
 
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Strong in Him

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I was reading the other day a passage in Isaiah and I came across this verse:
As for My people, children are their oppressors,
And women rule over them.
O My people! Those who lead you cause you to err,
And destroy the way of your paths.
~Isaiah 3:12 NKJV
It appears that women ruling over His people is sort of a bad thing.

Is it truly bad for women to rule?

No.

I'm not actually sure what that verse means. It can't be literal, because there were kings on the throne at the time. And children weren't oppressing them - otherwise people would be saying it's a bad thing to have children.

I read one commentary that said that this verse was referring to the king's harem - they were influencing/advising the king and therefore effectively running the country. It seems to be common in Scripture - Delilah influenced Samson, Jezebel was more effectual than Ahab, even Adam gave in to Eve's influence and temptation. The king would have been the rightful ruler, annointed by God, not his harem. That doesn't mean that women can't be gifted in leadership or have positive influence - look at Deborah and Esther. God called both.
 
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cubinity

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Yes, Isaiah comes from a patriarchal culture, where women ruling is a bad thing.

This is where the assumption that everything in the Bible is universally true gets people in trouble.

For Isaiah and those in his eternal audience that live in and/or support strict patriarchy, this is a totally appropriate symbol of failing.

However, for those of us that don't live in such a culture, nor support such a culture, we have to se this as an expression given in a culture that differs from our own, accept the idea being presented in that different context, and then, if we so choose to somehow apply it, discern the message from the details and apply the heart of the message as appropriate to our culture.
 
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cubinity

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The issue I have is that this lets culture trump the Bible, when in fact the Bible should trump culture. If the Bible is to be the authority in our lives, it has to trump all, even our own personal beliefs. Only Jesus himself can trump the Bible (and that He did, granted...).

The premise of your if-then statement is a personal belief, so your reasoning is circular.

That's the issue I have.
 
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151kN

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However, for those of us that don't live in such a culture, nor support such a culture, we have to se this as an expression given in a culture that differs from our own, accept the idea being presented in that different context, and then, if we so choose to somehow apply it, discern the message from the details and apply the heart of the message as appropriate to our culture.

So the structure of the church should adapt to popularist belief, since that rules a democratic culture.
 
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Meepy

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women in authority has always been a bad thing since God did not equip them by nature to rule. The feminist movement is a good example of the damage that it can cause, especially in marriages and families, of which the divorce rates are almost 50%, also in the job market where women flooded the market after 1950 which caused too many positions to be filled up that men with families needed much more than they did.
 
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Strong in Him

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women in authority has always been a bad thing since God did not equip them by nature to rule.

In the beginning, God created men and women and appointed THEM to rule over creation, (Gen 1:26-28)

Later, he appointed Deborah to be judge over all Israel (Judges 2:16;4:4).

The feminist movement is a good example of the damage that it can cause, especially in marriages and families, of which the divorce rates are almost 50%,

I don't know that the feminist movement has anything to do with the divorce rate. Do you have any evidence that couples divorce because the wife goes out to work and has her own career, rather than staying at home with the children? These days, many couples need the wife's salary to be able to afford a house. Two of my sisters in law went back to work after their children were born - they couldn't afford not to. If they hadn't, it would have put my brothers under greater pressure to work harder, longer hours to make up for what they lost from their wives' not working. Money problems can end marriages too.

also in the job market where women flooded the market after 1950 which caused too many positions to be filled up that men with families needed much more than they did.

What about women with families? What about single parents, where the husband has run off to do his own thing? Or cases where the husband might be disabled, or made redundant and cannot earn for a while, or at all? Who's going to support the family then?

The Lord gives gifts to all of us - there's no reason at all why women shouldn't use theirs to serve him and work for a living.
 
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It's strange, I don't know why but when I go to a church, or want to speak to someone I do prefer it to be a male Priest, rather than a female. I have never really been able to explain why, I have tried to a number of times! The thing is, I am not against females being in the church at all, I think it's great that things in most churches are working towards becoming more equal, but I would still rather speak to a male priest.
 
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Tamara224

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Is it truly bad for women to rule?


No. There was Deborah. If it were wrong, God wouldn't have used her as He did.

Also.... when the Church is worried about which humans can "rule", the Church is not following Christ's teachings nor thinking in terms relevant to the Kingdom of Heaven.

Men and women who seek to establish their own little kingdoms are not doing the will of God.

And the whole "women just aren't equipped to lead" stuff isn't Biblical, nor Christian. It's a cultural thing that has its origins in Aristotle and Plato, not Christ or Paul.
 
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Meepy

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And the whole "women just aren't equipped to lead" stuff isn't Biblical, nor Christian. It's a cultural thing that has its origins in Aristotle and Plato, not Christ or Paul.


I do not permit a woman to have authority over a man, but to be in silence - 1 Timothy 2:13

Deborah was judge because Israel was in such a bad state that none of the men were willing.
 
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cubinity

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I do not permit a woman to have authority over a man, but to be in silence - 1 Timothy 2:13

Deborah was judge because Israel was in such a bad state that none of the men were willing.

"But women will be saved through childbearing..." 1 Timothy 2:15

Is 1 Timothy 2 really the text you want to get behind on how you view women?
Good luck with that!
 
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