Fervent
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- Sep 22, 2020
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Fair enough.But what I am trying to point out - as someone who actually wears a clerical collar, and makes day-by-day decisions about when and how it is appropriate to do so - is that the actual meanings conveyed and reasons for wearing it might have nothing to do with either authority or class distinctions.
I suppose this is a remnant of when the church and governance were inseperable. We don't have those kinds of restrictions here, with secular checks only being mandated when working with vulnerable populations. Though the existence of legal hurdles doesn't alter the fundamental point, since secular restrictions can't be helped.No. What I said in my previous post applies - by secular law - to those who teach adults as well. Anyone who exercises a leadership position, or position of authority or perceived authority in the church, is required to have such checks and clearances.
Now it doesn't have to be ordination - after all, my church has a long-established practice of lay preachers - but it does require authorisation and licensing to that role.
Yeah, again I'm not arguing against offices in general or orginizational issues, but restrictions on sacred elements.But there are practical reasons for having particular tasks assigned to particular roles. Again, we could quibble endlessly about the detail of this or that task, but for the sake of good order and governance it's not just a free-for-all.
Everyone in good standing, yes. Though the very idea of formal confession with the church granting absolution is something I rather balk at. Presiding over the Eucharist, though? Yes, anyone in good standing with the church should be eligible.So would you then, be happy with a church whose structures remained unchanged except for allowing everyone (without exception?) to hear formal confessions and preside at the Eucharist? Do you really think that would a) work well, and b) solve the problems you raise? Because I don't. I know a good many people who would be a disaster as a confessor.
Ordination literally comes from achieving a higher rank in the Roman caste system, with Ordo Senatorum being the highest caste and plebian being the lowest. When you achieve a higher ordination, you are being elevated in class/rank and being given access to broader privileges not afforded the general population. It's inherently divisional among the body.But this is a straw man. This is not what ordination is. It is not how it is understood. And to attack the idea of orders on this basis is completely misplaced.
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