Women Priests.

[Hmm]

It certainly was the argument used when women were first ordained to the priesthood in The Episcopal Church--That was then, this is now. God has changed his mind, etc

Of course that wasn't the argument. Who has ever said that? The argument was Hold on, we may have got this wrong. Let's think again. Nothing wrong with that

 

[Albion]

No one was ordaining priests in the Bible outside of the old testament rules.

That's quite a remarkable statement to make, considering that there is no doubt whatsoever that the New Testament makes numerous references to the people who were called, and what was required in order to be eligible for a call; and there is no evidence of them having to be Hebrews of the tribe of Levi from which the Jewish priests who came prior to Christ's establishment of his own church were chosen.

Women are not second class citizens.

We're not talking about politics or political citizenship here. And it is as obvious as anything can be that ours is a God who, as shown throughout the Bible, chose certain people, at his discretion, for certain roles and did not choose others. He also had an entire "chosen race," so shall we consider the Almighty to be unfair for doing so??

It is not God's purpose to keep women from what they are given capacity to do....

This is also not about anyone's ability to perform the duties of a priest, pastor, bishop, or etc.

Do women in your church keep their heads always covered in congregating with other believers?

And this IS about the the clergy, about ordination, NOT about other regulations that might apply to all members of the church, clergy or laity.

Understanding God should though include desire to find and live according to the perfect will of God.

Unless doing so clashes with the current socio-political trends of nation, I think you mean.

 

[Albion]

Of course that wasn't the argument.

Oh yes it was.

 

[Hmm]

Oh yes it was.

So an argument of the movement within the Episcopalian church that wanted to see the introduction of women priests into the church was that God had changed His mind? Sorry but I won't believe that on your assertion but of course would do if you are able to cite some evidence that supports it.

 

[Albion]

So an argument of the movement within the Episcopalian church that wanted to see the introduction of women priests into the church was that God had changed His mind? Sorry but I won't believe that on your assertion but of course would do if you are able to cite some evidence that supports it.

Believe whatever you want. You, who had no knowledge of that matter going in, can either accept what happened or instead choose to stamp your feet and repeat "no, no!" if you wanted a different answer.

 

[Hmm]

Believe whatever you want. You now have the answer to the question and can stamp your feet and repeat "no, no!" if you choose. That's not my concern.

Not stamping my feet at all, just asking whether you have evidence for the very implausible assertion you just made. You obviously don't. Which is fine

 

[Albion]

Not stamping my feet at all, just asking whether you have evidence for the very implausible assertion you just made. You obviously don't. Which is fine

Of course I do, or else I wouldn't have passed it along to you.

 

[Hmm]

Of course I do, or else I wouldn't have passed it along to you.

My last comment on this. I asked you for any evidence you may have and you either cite some or you don't.

 

[Albion]

My last comment on this. I asked you for any evidence you may have so you either cite some or you don't.

And I see no reason to take my time searching for the minutes of a meeting or a quotation that I know perfectly well simply because you won't do it for yourself! It's you who want to find a way to deny the facts of the matter, not me.

 

[SkyWriting]

No one was ordaining priests in the Bible outside of the old testament rules.

Women are not second class citizens. It is not God's purpose to keep women from what they are given capacity to do, if such is not sin for anyone else.

Any of what was said did not deny God's word, rather there is no need to extrapolate from specific addresses for local circumstances to all believers, or all people, generally. Do women in your church keep their heads always covered in congregating with other believers? According to the understanding you express that is what they need to do. There are other such specifics to attend to. Understanding God should though include desire to find and live according to the perfect will of God. I do what I can for that, how about you? There is biblical basis to see for relevance to that. If we sin we disobey God, if we are repentant believers we turn from that to not continue in that.

Galatians 3:27-29 "As as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Matthew 7:12 "Therefore, whatever you want others to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

Women are also directed to stay home during any "unclean" weeks in their month cycle.
Another rule that has been over-ruled by changes in society.
Length of hair
Headcoverings
clothing styles
speaking in church
and leading churches

 

[Hmm]

And I see no reason to take my time searching for the minutes of a meeting or a quotation that I know perfectly well simply because you won't do it for yourself! It's you who want to find a way to deny the facts of the matter, not me.

Ah, so you make implausible assertions and then expect people who disagree with them to find evidence to support them! That's a very novel approach to discussion but not sure it's going to catch on

 

[Aussie Pete]

No one was ordaining priests in the Bible outside of the old testament rules.

Women are not second class citizens. It is not God's purpose to keep women from what they are given capacity to do, if such is not sin for anyone else.

Any of what was said did not deny God's word, rather there is no need to extrapolate from specific addresses for local circumstances to all believers, or all people, generally. Do women in your church keep their heads always covered in congregating with other believers? According to the understanding you express that is what they need to do. There are other such specifics to attend to. Understanding God should though include desire to find and live according to the perfect will of God. I do what I can for that, how about you? There is biblical basis to see for relevance to that. If we sin we disobey God, if we are repentant believers we turn from that to not continue in that.

Galatians 3:27-29 "As as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Matthew 7:12 "Therefore, whatever you want others to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

God has order, not chaos. God has set certain authorities in place. One reason is that people are inherently rebellious and there is nothing like authorities to expose that. Every born again believer is equal in Christ. That does not mean that all are elders, apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. It helps to remember why woman was created in the first place. She is meant to be the helper to the man.

God may not keep people from doing what they have the capacity to do, but that does not make it right. Many Christians do their best to help God. He does not need our help. What He wants is our cooperation. The greatest declaration we can ever make is, "Not my will, but yours be done". People can build empires through their own abilities, as some megachurches demonstrate. Some of the most ordinary, mundane, insignificant believers will be shown to be hidden heroes and heroines of the faith. Some "super" Christians will see their works judged as wood and hay, fit only for the fire.

 

[Paidiske]

She is meant to be the helper to the man.

Not in the sense of lacking agency or vocation in her own right.

 

[kiwimac]

My church happily ordains women. Male and female God created 'em, male and female we ordain 'em.

 

[hedrick]

I personally see nothing wrong with women priests. The Catholic Church seems to take the position that they must follow the lead of Jesus, in that all 12 of his close disciples were men. However, his approach could well have just reflected the norms of life in the 1st Century.

There were three women who I think are just as close disciples as the twelve men.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Not in the sense of lacking agency or vocation in her own right.

We will have to agree to disagree. I won't get into a debate. Suffice to say that I believe that all Christians are priests.

 

[FredVB]

No one was ordaining priests in the Bible outside of the old testament rules.

That's quite a remarkable statement to make, considering that there is no doubt whatsoever that the New Testament makes numerous references to the people who were called, and what was required in order to be eligible for a call; and there is no evidence of them having to be Hebrews of the tribe of Levi from which the Jewish priests who came prior to Christ's establishment of his own church were chosen.

We're not talking about politics or political citizenship here. And it is as obvious as anything can be that ours is a God who, as shown throughout the Bible, chose certain people, at his discretion, for certain roles and did not choose others. He also had an entire "chosen race," so shall we consider the Almighty to be unfair for doing so??

This is also not about anyone's ability to perform the duties of a priest, pastor, bishop, or etc.

And this IS about the the clergy, about ordination, NOT about other regulations that might apply to all members of the church, clergy or laity.

Unless doing so clashes with the current socio-political trends of nation, I think you mean.

Women are also directed to stay home during any "unclean" weeks in their month cycle.
Another rule that has been over-ruled by changes in society.
Length of hair
Headcoverings
clothing styles
speaking in church
and leading churches

That is exactly the right response. Those who say the ones seeing some things in the Bible were for circumstances for a time and place say that because those things clash with current sociopolitical trends conveniently disregard plenty of other things in the Bible they do not observe, and in saying all the things in the Bible apply to believers the same way they are inconsistent.

God has order, not chaos. God has set certain authorities in place. One reason is that people are inherently rebellious and there is nothing like authorities to expose that. Every born again believer is equal in Christ. That does not mean that all are elders, apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. It helps to remember why woman was created in the first place. She is meant to be the helper to the man.

God may not keep people from doing what they have the capacity to do, but that does not make it right. Many Christians do their best to help God. He does not need our help. What He wants is our cooperation. The greatest declaration we can ever make is, "Not my will, but yours be done". People can build empires through their own abilities, as some megachurches demonstrate. Some of the most ordinary, mundane, insignificant believers will be shown to be hidden heroes and heroines of the faith. Some "super" Christians will see their works judged as wood and hay, fit only for the fire.

That is a bold declaration to say the order from God matches the order from institutions in this world. You would then go along with anything from an institution in this world, and you would just be following orders.

 

[FredVB]

God's will is what is most important to follow. If there are requirements from an institution from humans that is compatible with God's will we can observe to do according to those. But anything not corresponding to God's will is not as important to observe as observing God's will, which we should choose. No one is in place of God for us. God made this world perfectly and there was no fault or shortcoming in it. What is wrong is that people did not and still do not care to stay with how God means any of it to be. We would do much better to align ourselves with how God means it all to be. God's perfect will for us is shown from that.