Women, Head Coverings, and Hillsong.

[brinny]

Would you mind clarifying your point then? I still don't understand

Proverbs 6: 16-19

A proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that are swift in running to evil, a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren

Thank you for posting those verses.

The last Verse, v19b:

and he that soweth discord among brethren.

When there is disagreement, and there surely will be, discussion can happen, especially amongst brothers in Christ, without discord.

Amen?

 

[Christbearer77]

I noticed with much displeasure that one of the female worship leaders at Hillsong has shaved her head.

Now to many of you this may seem to be nitpicking and touching on a peripheral issue; but I assure you that it is important to the Lord.

First of all, there is Luke 16:10. He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust (unrighteous) in that which is least is unjust (unrighteous) also in much.

This female worship leader is unjust in that which is least, as we will see that the matter of long and short hair is of importance to the angels and therefore the issue must be observed strictly according to the scriptures lest we be a stumbling block to them.

Therefore to the leadership at Hillsong I ask that she be taken down from ministry until her hair grows back.

Even Samson didn't get his strength back until his hair became a proper length once again to prove that his Nazirite vow was once more in effect.

Now of course when one member of the body suffers, we all suffer as members of the body, so such a disciplinary action is sometihng that we would all feel. But I say that this ought to be done for the sake of the angels.

1 Corintihans 11:10, For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

Now I am saying this with the idea in mind that the normal covering that God considers to be "power on her head" is long hair given to the woman...see 1 Corinthians 11:13-15. But for the sake of propriety in worship, another solution other than waiting for her hair to grow back might be to provide a scarf for her to put over her head during times of public ministry, as is the pracitce of the Amish and certain other groups.

I want to also say that it is alright for Hillsong to televise certain teaching sessions where women are doing the teaching, but that it needs to be clear that there is a male person who is that person's covering. It is written, Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgession. 1 Timothy 2:11-14.
Therefore the woman must be covered spiritually by a male who is over her, who will judge her message before it is given to make sure that it doesn't contain elements of deception within it.

First of all there nothing but chaos in the is world and people are dying left and right and you want to pay attention to something that is not that important. Are you serious?? I don't see anything wrong with her cutting her hair, I'm a dude I cut my hair bald, does that mean that I should not be in any ministries? In a positive light, that woman you want to gossip about and yes gossip because that's all you doing is serving her God and ministering to people to bring them to him. Passion in a ministry that follows the Lord and believe me, that ministry has Gods spirit protecting them, so since they let her in I'm pretty sure the Lord approved it, you're the only one not approving it. You should pray to God and ask him to refocus you on the things of him not of the world.

 

[brinny]

There are lots of scripture that tell us how those in ministry are to behave and conduct themselves...'above reproach' is mentioned. Getting a haircut (buzz cut) that looks transgender in this day and age can send a message that isn't from the Bible. Our conduct is more important than what comes out of the mouth...because our conduct reveals the heart's condition.

Instead of automatically tearing the writer of the OP apart, perhaps a look at the full counsel of scripture is in order...because even the way the writer has been treated speaks volumes contrary to scriptures...automatically pointing the finger and thinking evil of a brother/sister...I think there just might be a few scriptures on that, too.

Well apparently you said what i was tryin' to say much better than i did hahaaaaaa

Thank you.

That's what i was tryin' to say.

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

Not at all. But I hope a new believer in Indonesia with a high school education doesn't believe she has to put a hat on to pray, and I really hope someone covered in tatoos, piercings, and spiky hair doesn't think they can't accept Jesus Christ and feel loved and worthy until they fit someone else's conservative norms. That's just plain wrong and will drive people away from Christ, when I see no greater purpose in our lives than to lead others TO Christ.

And I happen to be tatt-free and a retired military conservative if you doubt my frame of reference.

There is a huge difference in someone newly coming to Christ and someone in MINISTRY. Check what scripture has to say on that matter.

The OP writer brought this to people s/he thought new scripture and asked a question, using scripture...

 

[brinny]

Amen!

I have meant no offense - I apologize if I have come off as accusatory - I've just been struggling to understand your position.

I beg your pardon as well for not gettin' to what i meant to say LOL!

PeacejoyLove said what i was tryin' to say.

Thank you brother

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

Would you mind clarifying your point then? I still don't understand

Proverbs 6: 16-19

A proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that are swift in running to evil, a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren

I have clarified in the writing preceding the scripture. Someone in ministry is held to standards as layed out in scripture, "above reproach, etc." All things need to be tested for alignment with scripture...including those who enter a public ministry, especially.

Thank you for sharing this scripture, for we have seen this here on this thread...

 

[Foxfyre]

Has she given an explanation as to why she shaved her head?

And does it matter? The Bible is full of admonitions to do this or don't do that:

In the Garden, Adam and Eve were ashamed of their nakedness. Does that mean we are never allowed to be naked?

Leviticus 19:19 forbids us to wear clothing made of two different kinds of material Deuteronomy 22:11 forbids wearing cloth made of wool and linen together. Who among us demands purity of fabric in the clothing we buy and wear today?

Leviticus 19:28 forbids tattoos. Now I don't really like them either but I doubt anybody needs to go to confession just because they have a tattoo. The same passage admonishes priests to not shave their heads or the edges of their beards. Very few Christians or Jews these days require their priests/leaders to even have a beard.

Do any of us still make four tassels on the corners of our coats? Deuteronomy 22:12 says we should.

Isaiah 3:16-25 says no jewelry or accessories for women. That would pretty well trash the world fashion industry because we women couldn't use:

• their finery:
• the bangles and
• headbands and
• crescent necklaces,
• the earrings and
• bracelets and
• veils,
• the headdresses and
• anklets and
• sashes,
• the perfume bottles and
• charms,
• the signet rings and
• nose rings,
• the fine robes and
• the capes and
• cloaks,
• the purses and
• mirrors, and
• the linen garments and
• tiaras and
• shawls

Zephaniah 1:8 admonishes us not to wear foreign attire. I guess that means I should burn my Mexican ruanas and my French sweater given to me by a dear friend.

1 Timothy 2:9 says women should dress modestly, not have braided hair, nor wear gold--dump those wedding bands girls--or pearls or expensive clothing.

1 Peter1:3 backs up Timothy about no braided hair or gold jewelry or wearing braids or fine clothes, but in verse 4 it is more important to have inner beauty. So if we have inner beauty, then can we wear what we want?

I could go on and on and on and on in this vein, but to me it is silly to pick out rules and regs that must be followed and ignore all the others in the bible. I trust that if we love God with all our heart, soul, and mind and treat our neighbor as we want to be treated, I think we're probably going to be okay.

In solidarity with her daughter battling cancer, my friend shaved her head and donated her hair to be made into wigs for cancer patients. I simply can find no fault or evil in that.

 

[Hearingheart]

And does it matter? The Bible is full of admonitions to do this or don't do that:

In the Garden, Adam and Eve were ashamed of their nakedness. Does that mean we are never allowed to be naked?

Leviticus 19:19 forbids us to wear clothing made of two different kinds of material Deuteronomy 22:11 forbids wearing cloth made of wool and linen together. Who among us demands purity of fabric in the clothing we buy and wear today?

Leviticus 19:28 forbids tattoos. Now I don't really like them either but I doubt anybody needs to go to confession just because they have a tattoo. The same passage admonishes priests to not shave their heads or the edges of their beards. Very few Christians or Jews these days require their priests/leaders to even have a beard.

Do any of us still make four tassels on the corners of our coats? Deuteronomy 22:12 says we should.

Isaiah 3:16-25 says no jewelry or accessories for women. That would pretty well trash the world fashion industry because we women couldn't use:

• their finery:
• the bangles and
• headbands and
• crescent necklaces,
• the earrings and
• bracelets and
• veils,
• the headdresses and
• anklets and
• sashes,
• the perfume bottles and
• charms,
• the signet rings and
• nose rings,
• the fine robes and
• the capes and
• cloaks,
• the purses and
• mirrors, and
• the linen garments and
• tiaras and
• shawls

Zephaniah 1:8 admonishes us not to wear foreign attire. I guess that means I should burn my Mexican ruanas and my French sweater given to me by a dear friend.

1 Timothy 2:9 says women should dress modestly, not have braided hair, nor wear gold--dump those wedding bands girls--or pearls or expensive clothing.

1 Peter1:3 backs up Timothy about no braided hair or gold jewelry or wearing braids or fine clothes, but in verse 4 it is more important to have inner beauty. So if we have inner beauty, then can we wear what we want?

I could go on and on and on and on in this vein, but to me it is silly to pick out rules and regs that must be followed and ignore all the others in the bible. I trust that if we love God with all our heart, soul, and mind and treat our neighbor as we want to be treated, I think we're probably going to be okay.

In solidarity with her daughter battling cancer, my friend shaved her head and donated her hair to be made into wigs for cancer patients. I simply can find no fault or evil in that.

You obviously didn't read my other post. Way to go

 

[christina Pickle]

Did you read all of the posts in this thread?

No.

 

[brinny]

And does it matter? The Bible is full of admonitions to do this or don't do that:

In the Garden, Adam and Eve were ashamed of their nakedness. Does that mean we are never allowed to be naked?

Leviticus 19:19 forbids us to wear clothing made of two different kinds of material Deuteronomy 22:11 forbids wearing cloth made of wool and linen together. Who among us demands purity of fabric in the clothing we buy and wear today?

Leviticus 19:28 forbids tattoos. Now I don't really like them either but I doubt anybody needs to go to confession just because they have a tattoo. The same passage admonishes priests to not shave their heads or the edges of their beards. Very few Christians or Jews these days require their priests/leaders to even have a beard.

Do any of us still make four tassels on the corners of our coats? Deuteronomy 22:12 says we should.

Isaiah 3:16-25 says no jewelry or accessories for women. That would pretty well trash the world fashion industry because we women couldn't use:

• their finery:
• the bangles and
• headbands and
• crescent necklaces,
• the earrings and
• bracelets and
• veils,
• the headdresses and
• anklets and
• sashes,
• the perfume bottles and
• charms,
• the signet rings and
• nose rings,
• the fine robes and
• the capes and
• cloaks,
• the purses and
• mirrors, and
• the linen garments and
• tiaras and
• shawls

Zephaniah 1:8 admonishes us not to wear foreign attire. I guess that means I should burn my Mexican ruanas and my French sweater given to me by a dear friend.

1 Timothy 2:9 says women should dress modestly, not have braided hair, nor wear gold--dump those wedding bands girls--or pearls or expensive clothing.

1 Peter1:3 backs up Timothy about no braided hair or gold jewelry or wearing braids or fine clothes, but in verse 4 it is more important to have inner beauty. So if we have inner beauty, then can we wear what we want?

I could go on and on and on and on in this vein, but to me it is silly to pick out rules and regs that must be followed and ignore all the others in the bible. I trust that if we love God with all our heart, soul, and mind and treat our neighbor as we want to be treated, I think we're probably going to be okay.

In solidarity with her daughter battling cancer, my friend shaved her head and donated her hair to be made into wigs for cancer patients. I simply can find no fault or evil in that.

Did you read all the posts in this thread?

God bless your friend and her precious daughter (((hug)))

 

[Foxfyre]

You obviously didn't read my other post. Way to go

Sorry if I offended. It was not my intent. I thought your question appropriate and one that must be considered before making any kind of judgment.

The rest of my post was just thoughts going through my head on this whole subject.

 

[Foxfyre]

Did you read all the posts in this thread?

God bless your friend and her precious daughter (((hug)))

No. That is one of my failings to not read every post in every thread. I pretty well pick up where I come in. I suppose I shouldn't do that, but I know myself well enough to know I probably will. (((hugs))) back.

 

[brinny]

No. That is one of my failings to not read every post in every thread. I pretty well pick up where I come in. I suppose I shouldn't do that, but I know myself well enough to know I probably will. (((hugs))) back.

LOL! I've done that as well.

It came to mind for me because some of the previous posts provided clarity that it's not about "hair" per se, but much much deeper spiritually than that and extends to the whole of Hillsongs, in their various locations, in particular, NYC.

 

[PeaceJoyLove]

DMRF, you do not sound legalistic in your question at all. Digging into scripture on the matter is the thing to do. Because what is said in The Bible is what we must test all things to...because our human understanding can get us into making assumptions that just don't add up to what scripture and the spirit say, together.

It is most often our preconceived ideas and indoctrinations of man that cause us to do things contrary to what the Bible actually says. We must never cherry pick scripture to fit what we want to believe, but look at the whole and what it says. I have found when we do that, a picture begins to form that brings clarity to The Word.

Firstly, I will address the OP scripture used, then share a link to scripture regarding "above reproach" In 1 Corinthians 11, Paul begins by speaking of 'coverings' as they pertain to the household of God. At the end of this passage, he says the woman's hair is her glory/covering.

If we are of the household of God, it is very important to grasp this truth.

(Someone else has also shared scripture about a man is to dress like a man, etc.)

I am sharing from the Amplified version.

3 But I want you to understand that Christ is the head (authority over) of every man, and man is the head of woman, and God is the head of Christ.
4 Every man who prays or prophesies with something on his head dishonors his head [and the One who is his head].
5 And every woman who prays or prophesies when she has her head uncovered disgraces her head; for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved [in disgrace].
6 If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, she should cover her head.
7 A man ought not have his head covered [during worship], since he is the image and [reflected] glory of God; but the woman is [the expression of] man’s glory.
8 For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man;
9 for indeed man was not created for the sake of woman, but woman for the sake of man.
10 Therefore the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head, for the sake of the angels [so as not to offend them].
11 Nevertheless, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman.
12 For as the woman originates from the man, so also man is born through the woman; and all things [whether male or female] originate from God [as their Creator].
13 Judge for yourselves; is it proper for a woman to offer prayer to God [publicly] with her head uncovered?
14 Does not common sense itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him,
15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her ornament and glory? For her long hair is given to her as a covering.
16 Now if anyone is inclined to be contentious [about this], we have no other practice [in worship than this], nor do the churches of God [in general].

Here are lots of scripture to dig into:

What does the Bible say about "Above Reproach"
What Does the Bible Say About Above Reproach?


What does the Bible say about Church Leadership/ministry

What Does the Bible Say About Church Leadership?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

There are lots of scripture that tell us how those in ministry are to behave and conduct themselves...'above reproach' is mentioned. Getting a haircut (buzz cut) that looks transgender in this day and age can send a message that isn't from the Bible. Our conduct is more important than what comes out of the mouth...because our conduct reveals the heart's condition.

Amen. And that's what the detractors (we who think her appearance is not giving the best image to our Lord) in the thread have said.

The true "Pharisees" have spewed their words of hatred and condemnation all over this thread. The irony is thick.

 

[FoundInGrace]

We have a couple of overweight worship leaders at our church, I've never thought about appearances being distracting in a worship leader before but I guess i will have to be distracted by their appearance now that this thread has taught me how important it is to judge them by what they look like. I used to enjoy worship but now I'll only be able to worship if the leaders look a certain way

 

[FoundInGrace]

Mind you one of the overweight worship leaders is a man so he is above reproach but the woman I can certainly judge harshly.

 

[brinny]

We have a couple of overweight worship leaders at our church, I've never thought about appearances being distracting in a worship leader before but I guess i will have to be distracted by their appearance now that this thread has taught me how important it is to judge them by what they look like. I used to enjoy worship but now I'll only be able to worship if the leaders look a certain way

Did you read all the posts in this thread?

 

[Phil 1:21]

Mind you one of the overweight worship leaders is a man so he is above reproach but the woman I can certainly judge harshly.

You should definitely ask God to smite them. Please report back whence they hath been smote.

 

[FoundInGrace]

Did you read all the posts in this thread?

Yes, I have been reading, inbetween sleeping, since the first post. I say this kindly.. have you read them all as well?

I used to live with someone who was incredibly sweet, a kind heart, searching for God's love, but when she came to church with me one time we ended up at a prayer meeting as she wanted to go where someone prayed (who has never prayed such things before) thank you God that you don't care about the outside of us what we wear etc. Though the words were true sadly it came across as judging because let's face it if he didn't care himself he wouldnt have prayed it. You see this person who had come along was dressed in her goth clothing etc. And it was clear to everyone there he was praying it because of her. But it was a very conservative church who has trouble coping with people who don't fit in their box. They would struggle with Rahab or John the Baptist etc. It was sad as she didnt come back, don't blame her. And she would have blossomed in a church with a bit of grace. But judging and legslism won that day... but i suppose she did have long hair so she could have led worship.