WOF - Non WOF Problem

[~RENEE~]

How is that precious little guy, Renee. I miss hearing about him.

in you absence he had a heart cath done.

 

[CindyisHis]

I would like to ask the WOF members a couple of questions. I am not asking on behalf of the advisors, but for my own information as the adminstrator for ET. Please do not use this thread to insult / flame any other members.

Would you prefer WOF to be a stand alone forum instead of part of the SF/C forum?

• If yes, do you think it would solve the problem with the constant attacks against WOF?
• If no, what do you think can be done to deal with the issue?

If WOF & Non WOF are split off into their own stand alone forums, is there any purpose for SF/C to remain?

I think we should have our own forum. We should not be substandard, tucked away as a subforum. But then, we're not really a denomination either. I don't like to be categorized, but for the purpose of finding those who are like-minded I suppose it must be.

I do think SF/C should remain because we are that, and there are those who consider themselves so who we fellowship with, those who are good-natured, love the brethren, and are not divisive. My thought is to suspend those who are divisive. It's a shame people who name themselves after Christ Jesus have to be told how to behave.

Keep SF/C because I see people there who I never see here, and would not wish to part with them.

Pete had some good thoughts. I need to read over them, and the thoughts from other mods since you see things in a different light.

 

[Always in His Presence]

I am not sure I have ever said I was WOF, I believe I said I believe '"most" of the WOF teachings. That is all I claim.
However, I will do my duties as a Mod as fairly as I possibly can.

My wonderful Sister in Christ -

You are a breath of fresh air! And a blessing to boot!

You have always been a fair and balanced moderator and have, if anything, added to the threads you have participated in. I don't know whose sock walterego is, but he certainly does not speak for the vast majority here.

God's very best, and thank you for all you do.

 

[rmw8855]

Please keep this thread on topic!!!!!

The suggestions so far have been thoughtful and I appreciate them.

 

[scaredNconfused]

nm

 

[pdudgeon]

well the discussion in both forums is interesting.

it would appear that WOF has a greater problem with the way things are than the non-WOF do.
that would suggest that things are not as balanced as they could be.

Both sides (staff and members) should either be content and willing to work together for the good of the other, or they should both be seeing the same problems and offering solutions.

I'm not seeing either of the above happening. either from staff or from members.

p.s. and nowhere did i suggest that they have to agree in doctrine in order to achieve that balance.

 

[gennaoanothen]

I would like to ask the WOF members a couple of questions. I am not asking on behalf of the advisors, but for my own information as the adminstrator for ET. Please do not use this thread to insult / flame any other members.


Would you prefer WOF to be a stand alone forum instead of part of the SF/C forum?

• If yes, do you think it would solve the problem with the constant attacks against WOF?
• If no, what do you think can be done to deal with the issue?

If WOF & Non WOF are split off into their own stand alone forums, is there any purpose for SF/C to remain?

I vote no, we are Spirit filled, to deal with the issue "all" need to be more Spirit filled. and drop the flesh.

 

[Floatingaxe]

well the discussion in both forums is interesting.

it would appear that WOF has a greater problem with the way things are than the non-WOF do.
that would suggest that things are not as balanced as they could be.

That's because we WOFers are continously on the defensive. It's quite comfy cozy for the non's to initiate thread after countless thread, relentlessly accusing us of all sorts, out of ignorance, which, if any of it were true, we wouldn't have anything to do with WOF!

It's like two girls arriving at the prom wearing the same gorgeous dress, yet they are wearing different jewellery and corsages. One pummels the other in the bathroom out of insecurity, thinking the other outshines her, but after the skirmish, they both walk out torn and battered, but still identical, earrings missing, pearls and petals strewn about.

It's ugly.

 

[rmw8855]

Mod Hat​

Please keep the thread on topic.
I have completed a thread cleanup and removed off topic posts.​

I appreciate your patience in going over the problem with me and all of the suggestions that have been given.​

 

[J4Jesus]

Changes have already been approved about a year ago, but were never implemented......


The name of the "non-wof" still has not been changed. They admins said it would tale place as soon as the conversion was completed. It never happened.

The promotion of WoF to full Congregational status just fizzed out.

Of course given the fact that only a handful remain....


............I am not sure making changes now would matter. As long as people are allowed to come and make repeated unstubstantiated accusations against others...

The reason alot left was because those kind of things were allowed and because things that were to be done were never done but just put on a shelf and forgotten. Like changing the non-wof name, and for WOF to be a congregation, faith group, or Christan Community, it doesn't matter, but it shouldnt be a subforum.

I vote for removing the debate forum also.......

I agree

You will not insult, belittle, mock, or personally attack:
other members
or groups of members.

Use of derogatory nicknames in reference to other members is prohibited. Don't goad another member
or start call-out threads.

This flaming rule also applies to public religious figures.

If we could just enforce this rule, it would stop a majority of what is consistently happening.

Yes enforce the rules

so to sum up Robin, you've asked for suggestions and you've gotten three from us:
1. close the debate forum.
2. sticky the commonly argued threads.
3. enforce the flaming rule.

I agree with these

I think we should have our own forum. We should not be substandard, tucked away as a subforum. But then, we're not really a denomination either. I don't like to be categorized, but for the purpose of finding those who are like-minded I suppose it must be.

Yes WOF should have its own forum

 

[Justducky]

I would like to ask the WOF members a couple of questions. I am not asking on behalf of the advisors, but for my own information as the adminstrator for ET. Please do not use this thread to insult / flame any other members.


Would you prefer WOF to be a stand alone forum instead of part of the SF/C forum?

• If yes, do you think it would solve the problem with the constant attacks against WOF?
• If no, what do you think can be done to deal with the issue?

If WOF & Non WOF are split off into their own stand alone forums, is there any purpose for SF/C to remain?

It is only proper that WoF get a safe haven-

 

[SavedByGrace3]

honestly, part of the problem is that they won't listen to the response when they ask a question of us. as a result we do get tired of offering responses based in scripture again and again and again.

The reality is this. They are not talking to us. They are speaking to an imaginary bug-a-boo WOF creature that has the oddest selection of theological truths one can imagine.
One solution is to simply point that out and not debate on any topic unless you agree with it. Stop trying to defend every nutball preacher who claims to be WoF (or is "accused" of being WoF) but who has no idea what WoF actually teaches.
Just say "I have no idea who you are talking to" and leave.

 

[ShaunJ]

I didn't realize there were still enough people posting here to care? Most "WoF" posters stopped posting around here long ago. Too much drama. I would rather spend my time in forums full of faith instead.

I have always been of the opinion that the WoF forums should not be buried away like the red headed step child of the forums.

 

[pdudgeon]

I didn't realize there were still enough people posting here to care? Most "WoF" posters stopped posting around here long ago. Too much drama. I would rather spend my time in forums full of faith instead.

I have always been of the opinion that the WoF forums should not be buried away like the red headed step child of the forums.

very true, but for a long time CF had a rather quiet policy that tended to be more comfortable with (and to promote) orthodox rather than heterodox faiths. so we were buried away.

gradually heterodox faiths have been able to play a more equal part in things on CF, but it has taken time (and a lot of water under the bridge) to get to that point.

 

[the.Sheepdog]

In all truth, I fail to even understand the division. Spirit filled Charismatic WoF is just matter of fact Christianity. I started out in a Reformed Presbyerian-a calvinist denomination really. I migrated to AoG. My Wife is Southern Baptist. We dont have problems with each other at all.

Just what is the litmus test that is being applied to form a division? From everything I have studied and seen and learned from Pastors on cable that would be considered WoF ,I agree with them. Basic as written Christianity!

Does that make me WoF? or just Christian? Bless me I just fail to understand such division in the body! But I will tell you this: If WoF and those dear loved membes here are spurned, I shall change my icon just that quick to WoF and stand with you.

 

[pdudgeon]

God bless you, Bill!

i agree, WOf is just basic Christianity and believing that God is who He says He is, and that He does indeed keep His promises to us. However there are several religions who don't agree with that assesment.

as dids has told us, one of the most important realizations for us has been discovering who we are in Jesus Christ, and everything that relationship means to us.

as for the difference between orthodox and heterodox, basically those who trace their origins from the Catholic or the Orthodox church are orthodox, and those who broke with apostolic succession, creeds, etc. or who formed on their own are heterodox.

heterodox:
1. not in accordance with established or accepted doctrines or opinions, esp. in theology; unorthodox.
2. holding unorthodox doctrines or opinions.


or⋅tho⋅dox   
–adjective 1. of, pertaining to, or conforming to the approved form of any doctrine, philosophy, ideology, etc.
2. of, pertaining to, or conforming to beliefs, attitudes, or modes of conduct that are generally approved.
3. customary or conventional, as a means or method; established.
4. sound or correct in opinion or doctrine, esp. theological or religious doctrine.
5. conforming to the Christian faith as represented in the creeds of the early church.
6. (initial capital letter) of, pertaining to, or designating the Eastern Church, esp. the Greek Orthodox Church.
7. (initial capital letter) of, pertaining to, or characteristic of Orthodox Jews or Orthodox Judaism.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1575&#8211;85; < LL orthodoxus right in religion < LGk orth&#243;doxos, equiv. to ortho- ortho- + d&#243;x(a) belief, opinion + -os adj. suffix

Related forms:

or&#8901;tho&#8901;dox&#8901;ly, adverb
or&#8901;tho&#8901;dox&#8901;ness, noun


Synonyms:
3. traditional, commonplace, routine, fixed.

 

[probinson]

In all truth, I fail to even understand the division.

The division is mostly emotional, not theological.

If you'll listen to the average anti-WoF poster, they will tell you of their negative experiences with WoF. Believe it or not, I believe most anti-WoF posters really are concerned with someone else getting hurt just like they did. In fact, most of them will tell you that is their purpose, to protect others. What they fail to realize is that by "protecting" others, they are hurting good WoF people in the process.

So, some whacked out, crazy belief gets posted that NO ONE here believes, and a WoF member refutes it. There are 2 kinds of responses to this. The first is one of agreeable disagreement. It becomes clear that an impasse has been reached, and so either a calm and rational conversation begins about the differences, or it's agreed that it makes no sense to continue talking about it. I've had a number of conversations just like this with non-WoF people. It is quite refreshing when it happens. It is then that you realize that the division is not as large as it seems.

The second type of response is one of complete irrationality. No matter how much you explain that this is not what WoF believes, the person is already convinced that their bad experiences trump everyone of your good experiences. We once had a guy running around here for weeks telling people that we didn't believe in the Trinity. You might as well go home and have a rousing conversation with your wall when that happens.

This happens on both sides. It is not just non-WoF. I've seen people on the WoF side of the debate act the same way. I've been guilty of it myself. Most notably, I used to post that non-WoF people believed that God was a child abuser. One day, God asked me, "Do you really believe that those people believe I'm a child abuser", and I said, well, no, but it does *seem* that way sometimes. And he said to me, "If you don't believe that they think I'm a child abuser, why do you bear false witness against them by saying it?" Since that conversation, I've tried with varying success to watch more closely what I say about my brothers and sisters.

That is why I believe the division is so large. Instead of actually listening to one another and trying to learn from one another, we're more interested in telling the other side how wrong they are. In some respects, each side is saying to the other, "I have no need of you".

The only solution is one where everyone involved deals with themselves. God dealt with me about the way I was addressing some of my brothers and sisters. That's why I left CF for a while. I needed to step back and let God purge things from me. I needed that root of bitterness uprooted before it got down too deep.

Most people will tell you they're OK and they don't need to do this. They'll tell you that just because you had an issue that needed dealt with doesn't mean everyone else has the same issue, which may be true, but a tree is known by its fruit, not by its protests.

The bottom line is the way we have addressed one another over the years has been far less than what should be expected from a child of God. Thank God for His grace...

Anyway, that is why I believe there is such a large division.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Very often differences occur when they mix what you teach with what they think and come to a third, irrational and irrelevant conclusion.
For instance. In the debate forum right now someone is pushing the idea that if "all should be healed," then why does anyone die?
IOWs, they are saying that WoFers do not believe that Christians should ever die. Now of course no WoFer on the planet has ever taught such a thing. But they mingle a legit WoF teaching (healing belongs to the believer) with their own skewed definitions (healed people never die) and reach a conclusion that nobody teaches or believes.
So how are WoFers supposed to deal with that?
WoFers first deny that they believe it... which has never worked, at least not in recent memory.
WoFers then try and explain what they do believe... which is ignored.
Then those attacking claim nobody has sucessfully rebutted their point (that nobody believes) and hence claim to have defeated the faith teachings....
What can you do with this sort of disembling and obfuscation?
It is frustrating for WoFers because so much of what is presented in the name of WoF is just false.
And you end up wondering (sometimes out loud, to your own discredit) just what their motivation is.

The division is mostly emotional, not theological.

If you'll listen to the average anti-WoF poster, they will tell you of their negative experiences with WoF. Believe it or not, I believe most anti-WoF posters really are concerned with someone else getting hurt just like they did. In fact, most of them will tell you that is their purpose, to protect others. What they fail to realize is that by "protecting" others, they are hurting good WoF people in the process.

So, some whacked out, crazy belief gets posted that NO ONE here believes, and a WoF member refutes it. There are 2 kinds of responses to this. The first is one of agreeable disagreement. It becomes clear that an impasse has been reached, and so either a calm and rational conversation begins about the differences, or it's agreed that it makes no sense to continue talking about it. I've had a number of conversations just like this with non-WoF people. It is quite refreshing when it happens. It is then that you realize that the division is not as large as it seems.

The second type of response is one of complete irrationality. No matter how much you explain that this is not what WoF believes, the person is already convinced that their bad experiences trump everyone of your good experiences. We once had a guy running around here for weeks telling people that we didn't believe in the Trinity. You might as well go home and have a rousing conversation with your wall when that happens.

This happens on both sides. It is not just non-WoF. I've seen people on the WoF side of the debate act the same way. I've been guilty of it myself. Most notably, I used to post that non-WoF people believed that God was a child abuser. One day, God asked me, "Do you really believe that those people believe I'm a child abuser", and I said, well, no, but it does *seem* that way sometimes. And he said to me, "If you don't believe that they think I'm a child abuser, why do you bear false witness against them by saying it?" Since that conversation, I've tried with varying success to watch more closely what I say about my brothers and sisters.

That is why I believe the division is so large. Instead of actually listening to one another and trying to learn from one another, we're more interested in telling the other side how wrong they are. In some respects, each side is saying to the other, "I have no need of you".

The only solution is one where everyone involved deals with themselves. God dealt with me about the way I was addressing some of my brothers and sisters. That's why I left CF for a while. I needed to step back and let God purge things from me. I needed that root of bitterness uprooted before it got down too deep.

Most people will tell you they're OK and they don't need to do this. They'll tell you that just because you had an issue that needed dealt with doesn't mean everyone else has the same issue, which may be true, but a tree is known by its fruit, not by its protests.

The bottom line is the way we have addressed one another over the years has been far less than what should be expected from a child of God. Thank God for His grace...

Anyway, that is why I believe there is such a large division.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

One day, God asked me, "Do you really believe that those people believe I'm a child abuser", and I said, well, no, but it does *seem* that way sometimes. And he said to me, "If you don't believe that they think I'm a child abuser, why do you bear false witness against them by saying it?"

LOL...
I would have to argue with the Lord about that one..(something I have been known to do).
If I beat the crap out of my own kids out in my front lawn and then required them to express their thankfulness and praise me for it. And I administered said beatings for the sole purpose of having my neighbors comment on how much my kids loved me and what a glorious father I must be...
I would be taken away.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Just what is the litmus test that is being applied to form a division? From everything I have studied and seen and learned from Pastors on cable that would be considered WoF ,I agree with them. Basic as written Christianity!

Does that make me WoF? or just Christian? Bless me I just fail to understand such division in the body! But I will tell you this: If WoF and those dear loved membes here are spurned, I shall change my icon just that quick to WoF and stand with you.[/quote]

That's just what I did do!