WOF - Non WOF Problem

[probinson]

That was precisely my reasoning for opposing the debate forum when I was on staff. Moving a problem to another area doesn't solve the problem. It simply moves the problem.

 

[Peaceful Dove]

That was precisely my reasoning for opposing the debate forum when I was on staff. Moving a problem to another area doesn't solve the problem. It simply moves the problem.

Hi
How are you my dear Brother?

 

[probinson]

Hi
How are you my dear Brother?

I am doing great! Thanks for asking.

Hope things are well with you also.

 

[the.Sheepdog]

Yes. What Balance said. CF already has rules about the bickering and fighting. Just enforce them.

 

[pdudgeon]

so to sum up Robin, you've asked for suggestions and you've gotten three from us:
1. close the debate forum.
2. sticky the commonly argued threads.
3. enforce the flaming rule.

 

[rmw8855]

Thank you for your suggestions I really appreciate it.

 

[probinson]

I'd like to address a point that was raised in the non-WoF forum.

It was suggested that the reason we would like to see the debate forum done away with is because we are unable to debate our position and want to "censor" viewpoints that disagree with ours.

That is complete and utter nonsense.

Their brilliant solution to the problem? Allow people to lie, slander, and intentionally misrepresent WoF beliefs at will, and just don't respond to it. At all. Just let people merrily go about spreading misinformation and lies. After all, no one is making anyone read any of it...

Of course, they see no problem with this, because it is not their beliefs that are slandered day in and day out, in thread after thread (after thread after thread). But just let someone question them or their motives, and they write posts the size of Orwellian novels to defend what they said. But that's different, I suppose, somehow...

I belong to secular forums that are more civilized and wouldn't put up with half the crap that goes on in the "debate" forum. It has never ceased to amaze me what is permitted here in this "Christian" forum under the guise of "debate".

As I've said many times over in the time I've been at CF, I welcome debate, but the vast majority of what happens in the debate forum could not be construed as "debate" by even the most broad definition of the word.

 

[hislegacy]

I'd like to address a point that was raised in the non-WoF forum.

It was suggested that the reason we would like to see the debate forum done away with is because we are unable to debate our position and want to "censor" viewpoints that disagree with ours.

That is complete and utter nonsense.

Their brilliant solution to the problem? Allow people to lie, slander, and intentionally misrepresent WoF beliefs at will, and just don't respond to it. At all. Just let people merrily go about spreading misinformation and lies. After all, no one is making anyone read any of it...

Of course, they see no problem with this, because it is not their beliefs that are slandered day in and day out, in thread after thread (after thread after thread). But just let someone question them or their motives, and they write posts the size of Orwellian novels to defend what they said. But that's different, I suppose, somehow...

I belong to secular forums that are more civilized and wouldn't put up with half the crap that goes on in the "debate" forum. It has never ceased to amaze me what is permitted here in this "Christian" forum under the guise of "debate".

As I've said many times over in the time I've been at CF, I welcome debate, but the vast majority of what happens in the debate forum could not be construed as "debate" by even the most broad definition of the word.

That was evidenced by the responses to the moratorium.

I mean no offense whatsoever, but it seems like we have tried everything but enforcing policy.

 

[rmw8855]

Please focus on the subject at hand. If you have any suggestions of how to resolve the issue between WOF / Non-WOF I welcome them, but I do not want to turn this into a mud slinging contest.

I appreciate the suggestions you have already made and will definitely talk them over with FreeinChrist.

 

[probinson]

That was evidenced by the responses to the moratorium.

Exactly. I resigned over the moratorium, because I did not want to see debate stifled.

My contention has always been that debate here is not done with respect and/or honor for others, and that is the problem.

I mean no offense whatsoever, but it seems like we have tried everything but enforcing policy.

Right. More rules don't help if they won't be enforced either.

The CF staff already has every tool at their disposal to stop this, and they are not using them. Debate forum or no is not really the problem. The problem is disrespect.

As has already been pointed out, the current rules ALREADY say;

You will not insult, belittle, mock, or personally attack other members or groups of members.

Use of derogatory nicknames in reference to other members is prohibited. Don't goad another member or start call-out threads.

So why take more suggestions when the current system is sufficient to deal with the problem. It's just a matter of CF enforcing the current rules.

It's frustrating. When I was on staff, I spent HOURS in "meetings" via messenger. I have a 75-page transcript from one of those meetings, of which NOTHING materialized. We talked and prayed and brainstormed until we were blue in the face, came up with a "plan", and NEVER implemented it.

So while I do appreciate your effort to try and do something, my confidence that anything will change is remarkably low.

 

[probinson]

I would like to make one more post, re: the non-WoF forum and the response to my post. This is the last thing I'll say about it.

In the non-WoF forum, it was suggested that the reason we want the debate forum closed is because we can't debate our position and we want to "censor" people.

I responded to that statement, because it's simply not true.

And now, I am the immature one making it "personal", because I dared to respond to and refute the false accusation.

This is status quo for the debate forum. Someone kicks the dog, the dog bites them, and then they blame the dog and try to play the victim.

I am truly not meaning to fling mud. But this is a prime example of the kind of thing that needs to stop in the debate forum. The current rules already provide what is necessary to do just that.

 

[~RENEE~]

I don't know this may be a stupid idea. But think about this and mull it over. some type of member mods. not actually mods and have limited mod control. They would be posting like everyone else and be able to be watching over the threads more closely then the mods. They would answer to the Mods. They could have a handle on things and the rules in check.

I don't know just a thougt.

 

[hislegacy]

I don't know this may be a stupid idea. But think about this and mull it over. some type of member mods. not actually mods and have limited mod control. They would be posting like everyone else and be able to be watching over the threads more closely then the mods. They would answer to the Mods. They could have a handle on things and the rules in check.

I don't know just a thougt.

I respectfully disagree -

we have 11 mods, two of which are supervisors. Optimax, Alpine and BenAdam are here pretty consistently - The other mods - I don't know if I have ever seen them here, but that is the problem with an all volunteer staff.

I just don't think we need more staff, but perhaps if more staff was active here - it would help. Two or three out of 11 just can't get the job done.

 

[~RENEE~]

I respectfully disagree -

we have 11 mods, two of which are supervisors. Optimax, Alpine and BenAdam are here pretty consistently - The other mods - I don't know if I have ever seen them here, but that is the problem with an all volunteer staff.

I just don't think we need more staff, but perhaps if more staff was active here - it would help. Two or three out of 11 just can't get the job done.

that's my point the lack of active staff is our main problem. So why not take more active people and bring in to help. Or try to get the other mods more active in the threads. That way they wont be waiting for someone to complain to them. They could see it for themselves and deal with what they see.

 

[rmw8855]

Exactly. I resigned over the moratorium, because I did not want to see debate stifled.

My contention has always been that debate here is not done with respect and/or honor for others, and that is the problem.

Right. More rules don't help if they won't be enforced either.

The CF staff already has every tool at their disposal to stop this, and they are not using them. Debate forum or no is not really the problem. The problem is disrespect.

As has already been pointed out, the current rules ALREADY say;
So why take more suggestions when the current system is sufficient to deal with the problem. It's just a matter of CF enforcing the current rules.

It's frustrating. When I was on staff, I spent HOURS in "meetings" via messenger. I have a 75-page transcript from one of those meetings, of which NOTHING materialized. We talked and prayed and brainstormed until we were blue in the face, came up with a "plan", and NEVER implemented it.

So while I do appreciate your effort to try and do something, my confidence that anything will change is remarkably low.

I appreciate your feelings and I can't guarantee that anything will change but I can make an effort. I refuse to give up on something as a lost cause. By nature (I am an accountant ) I gather information and then create a plan of action - that is what I am doing.

I try to be respectful of other people. I may not agree with their interpretation of scripture, but that doesn't mean I need to be insulting or rude. Unfortunately that happens here way too often, which is why I chose not to participate in many of the debates.

I agree the rules need to be enforced consistently. However, as you know, unless staff is actively reading / participating in the threads we just don't see alot of the violations. Other times some members know how to stay just this side of a rule violation.

 

[rmw8855]

I respectfully disagree -

we have 11 mods, two of which are supervisors. Optimax, Alpine and BenAdam are here pretty consistently - The other mods - I don't know if I have ever seen them here, but that is the problem with an all volunteer staff.

I just don't think we need more staff, but perhaps if more staff was active here - it would help. Two or three out of 11 just can't get the job done.

Those 11 staff members are responsible for 25 + forums (all congregation communities & faith groups). Admittedly some of those forums create little, if any, reports / problems, but you are correct we need more mods.

See my signature

 

[Peaceful Dove]

I will step in and add my thoughts.
I am also a mod here.
I was on Leave of Absence for quite sometime, dealing with some health issues. I am back now.
I use to Mod here, or at least attempted to. Pete knows the history.
I was not welcome here, either as a poster or as a Mod. In fact, my presence caused a great deal of problems. When it became very hurtful for me, because I truly loved the folks here and frankly agreed with the WOF theology, I asked to be relieved of Mod duty in SF all together.
It took me a long time to just visit again.

Well, changes in some of the rules brought me back here again.
I have spent a little time in SF but only ventured back here in the last few days.

I am more than willing to participate to the extent that you all are comfortable with me.

I will Mod in any area that my superiors ask me to and will do my best not to do more or less than what I am expected to.

I still totally relate to most of the WOF teachings. That is just the truth of it.

So there you are. I am certainly open to your thoughts and ideas.

 

[~RENEE~]

I will step in and add my thoughts.
I am also a mod here.
I was on Leave of Absence for quite sometime, dealing with some health issues. I am back now.
I use to Mod here, or at least attempted to. Pete knows the history.
I was not welcome here, either as a poster or as a Mod. In fact, my presence caused a great deal of problems. When it became very hurtful for me, because I truly loved the folks here and frankly agreed with the WOF theology, I asked to be relieved of Mod duty in SF all together.
It took me a long time to just visit again.

Well, changes in some of the rules brought me back here again.
I have spent a little time in SF but only ventured back here in the last few days.

I am more than willing to participate to the extent that you all are comfortable with me.

I will Mod in any area that my superiors ask me to and will do my best not to do more or less than what I am expected to.

I still totally relate to most of the WOF teachings. That is just the truth of it.

So there you are. I am certainly open to your thoughts and ideas.

hey there doll I missed you. Glad you're back.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I would like to ask the WOF members a couple of questions. I am not asking on behalf of the advisors, but for my own information as the adminstrator for ET. Please do not use this thread to insult / flame any other members.

Would you prefer WOF to be a stand alone forum instead of part of the SF/C forum?

• If yes, do you think it would solve the problem with the constant attacks against WOF?
• If no, what do you think can be done to deal with the issue?

If WOF & Non WOF are split off into their own stand alone forums, is there any purpose for SF/C to remain?

No.

Just get rid of the debate forum. It is just a big red sore spot for WoF members continuously defending slanderous cat-calls by a few intolerant, unknowledgeable members who have no intention of understanding. They don't want to learn or be elucidated--they want to hammer and put down.

No one goes into the same debate forum and tears them down for their faith beliefs.

It is one-sided and not becoming of Christians to initiate thread after thread of derogatory rhetoric.

 

[Peaceful Dove]

hey there doll I missed you. Glad you're back.

How is that precious little guy, Renee. I miss hearing about him.