Wives vs submission to husbands vs submission to Jesus

[S.O.J.I.A.]

"The men whining about this in my experience have been the types that aren't worthy of submission..."
^^^ This has defiantly been my experience.

and scripture disagrees with you, so what would be your point?

 

[Tetra]

and scripture disagrees with you, so what would be your point?

You just told me men who abuse women would be sufficient for not following the command... I would consider those men not worthy of submission. Again, don't know what you're getting at here.

then don't make the claim that there is another biblically substantiated exception if you can't provide one.

You don't think I can come up with one??? Ummm sure, Matthew 5:32, not only is sexual immorality grounds for not "submitting", it's grounds for divorce. I can't even believe you think abuse is the only Biblical grounds for a partner to not "submit".

 

[Tetra]

@THE W

This is what I think I happening... your initial comment seemed directed at women not submitting... and citing abuse as the only reason for not submitting.

My position is not to question the women, but rather to ask, what are those men doing causing their partners to not desire "submission"... I also don't belive that abuse is the ONLY Biblical reason... maybe there is another Biblical reason that is causing their partner to question them. I don't know... but I gave the example of sexual immorality above as a possibility. I'm sure there are more.

I have 2 other thoughts aso well, but are separate from our back and forth... what's the exact definition of submission... and is there a cultural context to consider.

On that note, I've got some dishes to do, so brb in 45.

 

[Victory-N-Christ]

Recently I went through cardio physiotherapy. We learned about diet and exercise. We do not have to exercise and we do not have to follow a healthy diet. We are just a lot better off and we are going to be a lot more healthy if we exercise and eat right. We do not have to follow the Law of God, but we are going to be a lot better off if we do. Because the law of God is for our benefit. David talks about this in the 119 Psalm. God wants us to be healthy and He wants what is best for us. Still he leaves the choice up to us. WE can choose life or death, sickness or health, blessing or curse, poverty or prosperity. It is not always easy. My son is in college now working hard to have a good job and make a decent living. The way to destruction is an easy way to go. The way to life and liberty can be difficult, but worth the extra effort for the benefits we receive.

Yes He does.Hey I like how you phrased your response.I gleaned a lot of wisdom from it .Life teaches us things everyday. Being a christian still is a learning process no matter how long one's been at it.We still need to grow in Christ. Yes He gives us a choice but the things He has are better for us in the long run.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

You just told me men who abuse women would be sufficient for not following the command... I would consider those men not worthy of submission. Again, don't know what you're getting at here.

actually you said that people need to get their faith and life together to be worthy for submission of their wives and 1 peter 3:1-2 contradicts that head on.

You don't think I can come up with one??? Ummm sure, Matthew 5:32,

actually the woman can't divorce her husband on those grounds or she will be an adulterous. that clause is for men.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

This is what I think I happening... your initial comment seemed directed at women not submitting... and citing abuse as the only reason for not submitting.

my initial comment was to highlight what had already been addressed in that we don't get to wait for our spouses to have it all together before we fulfill our biblical obligations to them.

My position is not to question the women, but rather to ask, what are those men doing causing their partners to not desire "submission"...

doesn't matter, as the biblical obligation to the spouse for men and women is to be carried out regardless their behavior(with the exception of physical abuse which is substantiated by the 6th commandment)

I also don't belive that abuse is the ONLY Biblical reason... maybe there is another Biblical reason that is causing their partner to question them. I don't know... but I gave the example of sexual immorality above as a possibility. I'm sure there are more.

again, wives cannot divorce their husbands under any circumstances. if they do, they must either be reconciled to their husband or remain celibate until their husband dies. the clause is for men only.

what you or I believe is irrelevant. what matters is whether or not what we believe is actually true.

 

[Tetra]

actually you said that people need to get their faith and life together to be worthy for submission of their wives and 1 peter 3:1-2 contradicts that head on

You're either mis-quoting intentionally or misunderstood. Go back and read it:
"The men whining about this in my experience have been the types that aren't worthy of submission... maybe if they get their faith in check (and life), things would be different."

Getting your faith and life in check is the solution... not the reason. All I said is that the men whining about this aren't usually the types worthy of submission...

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Getting your faith and life in check is the solution... not the reason. All I said is that the men whining about this aren't usually the types worthy of submission...

oh?

if it's not the reason then what makes them not worthy of submission and why would they need to get their faith and life right if it's not the reason for the lack of submission in the first place?

 

[Tetra]

oh?

if it's not the reason then what makes them not worthy of submission and why would they need to get their faith and life right if it's not the reason for the lack of submission in the first place?

As I stated above... and have maintained throughout our conversation from the beginning. I think there are many Biblical reasons beyond abuse that would cause someone not to be worthy of submission.

I think fundamentally though, based on what you have wrote so far. You and I will disagree on how we interpret scripture.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

As I stated above... and have maintained throughout our conversation from the beginning. I think there are many Biblical reasons beyond abuse that would cause someone not to be worthy of submission.

I think fundamentally though, based on what you have wrote so far. You and I will disagree on how we interpret scripture.

that's obvious,

you go by what think and how you feel and I go by what I can actually prove and demonstrate.

 

[Tetra]

that's obvious,

you go by what think and how you feel and I go by what I can actually prove and demonstrate.

I don't recall using the word "feel" once (although nothing inherently wrong with feelings). However, you mean what you think you can prove and demonstrate. There's a difference.

 

[Victory-N-Christ]

No you do not understand what I said
in reply to the first post of the thread.


NOTE*** This is just my own opinion and not to be taken
as truth or lie. For discussion purposes only.

Okay.

 

[QuikSand]

Okay.

Victory-N-Christ said: ↑
Why is it so hard for people to submit to their "heads"?
I replied:
Because they do not want submit
to something they do not want to do.

What part of this do you want me to explain to you?

 

[Victory-N-Christ]

Victory-N-Christ said: ↑
Why is it so hard for people to submit to their "heads"?
I replied:
Because they do not want submit
to something they do not want to do.

What part of this do you want me to explain to you?

Alright. I see right now that we're gonna have a problem so I'll respectfully withdraw my question.

 

[QuikSand]

Alright. I see right now that we're gonna have a problem so I'll respectfully withdraw my question.

I have no problem with any of it.

 

[Victory-N-Christ]

I have no problem with any of it.

Okay.

 

[QuikSand]

Okay.

You agree with me?

 

[Victory-N-Christ]

You agree with me?

Well you've said that you don't have a problem with any of it and so what else can I say but Okay?I'm not gonna bash you.

 

[QuikSand]

Well you've said that you don't have a problem with any of it and so what else can I say but Okay?I'm not gonna bash you.

Okay

 

[Courage Ampadu]

That is my understanding of "as onto the Lord": "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord." We have a covenant relationship with God. A covenant has conditions. If we do our part then we can be sure that God will do His part. In this case we are told that the wife is to submit to her husband, but this is qualified with "as unto the Lord". So what is your understanding of this passage?

If the husband is in rebellion and not following God then why should the wife follow him in his rebellion and do something that God tells us not to do? We are not to live life in the flesh, we are to live in the Spirit. Galatians 5 "16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.They are opposed to one another, so that you do not do what you want. "

This is the job of the husband to follow God and to help the wife to be all that God wants her to be.

Read1Peter 3:1-3.
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
1 Peter 3:1 KJV
No qualification of the command. The wife with an unbelieving husband is to still submit. There is however a difference between submitting and being obedient. Children are told to obey their parents but adults need to honour them. We honour our leaders but we do not let them run our lives. Likewise a wife may be in subjection to her husband, it does not mean she must do everything he says. Submission is first and foremost in our attitude.
By the way the bible also says we are to submit one to another. So a husband needs to have a submissive attitude towards his wife in some matters.