Witches, wizards and the occult

[Ada Lovelace]

People enjoy the fantasy genre because it often draws discernible parallels to the spiritual realities of the world we live in. I had an aversion to Harry Potter for years because a "pastor" tried to illustrate a difference between HP and LOTR, citing that the former sought power while the latter's characters knew they weren't meant to wield that kind of power and tried to rid themselves of it.

I absolutely love LOTR, it remains the greatest body of literature this side of Dante or Shakespeare in my opinion. I always think that at least in the context of the 21st century, Harry Potter is well-written, extremely well-developed and wonderfully engrossing.

My final point is though, that aside from little kids pretending they're wizards the same way they pretend they're cops or cowboys or superman, nobody is going from reading/watching Harry Potter to actively (or passively for that matter) participating in the occult. Nobody takes the Harry Potter narrative and thinks, "hey that's not so bad, I can go ahead and practice witchcraft with no risk to myself." It's a work of fiction. We all recognize it as such and can therefore handle it safely.

Really, aside from plain disinterest, a work of literature or cinematic art should only be avoided if it's poorly made. My sister is the most avid reader I know and she gives everything a shot, back when the Twilight frenzy was at it's peak she tried to read the first book but had to give up because it was a linguistic and grammatical abortion. That's an example of fiction to avoid on principle.

QFT. Storytelling has been a vital part of human culture for millennia, and long before there was Harry Potter or Disney childhood was enhanced with tales of fairies, dragons, and the magic of make-believe. Christian writers have long used fiction as ways of imparting moral messages in a way that captivates the interest of the young, and is comprehensible and memorable to them. I loved A Wrinkle in Time and the Narnia series when I was little, which are by Christian authors. Most of the classic children's literature entails fantasy, like Where the Wild Things Are, Charlotte's Web, and the Dr. Seuss books.

There are propaganda children's books that teach hatred, racism, bigotry, pseudoscience, or promote quantifiably dangerous activities that I would avoid on principle, along with the grammatical travesties. Such as: Melanie's Marvelous Measles and the N.R.A's reimagined classic fairy tales with guns. Other than those aberrations I think we should be happy when kids choose to pick up a book (or to read one on their tablet) instead of playing a video game.

 

[Boogeyman07]

once you kill off the magic, why would anyone want to hear the story of greater magic?

what is a christian who doesn't believe in the supernatural?

Cool perspective.
I say there should be more focus on that greater 'magic' then That's also a thing that seems almost lost with a lot of the church, and maybe it's just more of the western church i'm not sure, but that's the fact that we as Christians have an enormous amount of power through Him, more than anyone else on earth

 

[Goodbook]

Yea theres no power greater than the power of the holy spirit, which is love. And the only way to the Father is through Jesus, who showed us this love.

Thats something all those sorcerers are lacking. Whether its hp or star wars or lotr or frozen or whoever is popularized in those stories.

They may make an attempt at love, but its not pure the way Jesus showed. And its not done through 'magic' or for his own ends.
The pharoah attempted to demonstrate a power he obtained theough sorcery, but God put him right. Moses, who did not have any power of his own obtained through sorcery, was given power from above to work miracles. Not to demonstrate he had power, but that God had.
Saul also attempted to contact the dead through the witch of endor. But he paid a huge price for this disobedience.

To say that witchcraft isnt real is to deny what the Bible says. And how God doesnt want his people going to witches, diviners, charmers etc.

 

[sarah_beloved]

So you're saying Queen Elsa is a witch?

 

[Goodbook]

Uh, what you talking about. Didnt you know she was? Its obvious, thought everyone knew that. The movie frozen is based in the snow queen fairy tale, which is of course, about witches, as most fairy tales are.

 

[Elliewaves]

If there are hidden witches on cf, they are probably trying to deflect being detected by accusing others of being witches. It's a well known witch tactic.
Everyone knows that.

This is my favorite thread on cf currently, lol!

 

[Citanul]

I'm not saying Harry Potter is necessarily bad, but surely you can see how it would be possible for that to happen with children... at the very least it can desensitize them to the dangers of magic and the occult

But does it really desensitise them? By the time anyone becomes aware of the occult to the point where they might develop an interest in it, they should long have been able to distinguish between fiction and reality. If not then there's an underlying problem which has nothing to do with Harry Potter.

There are many reasons why someone might choose to explore the occult, but I would have thought that having liked Harry Potter (or something similar) as a child wouldn't be very high up on that list.

 

[Saucy]

If there are hidden witches on cf, they are probably trying to deflect being detected by accusing others of being witches. It's a well known witch tactic.
Everyone knows that.

This is my favorite thread on cf currently, lol!

 

[Saucy]

I explored the occult before becoming a Christian. So trust me, I know the difference. The occult has nothing to do with Harry Potter or LOTR.

 

[Cearbhall]

My main thought about the existence of this thread is that it's not hard to see how witch burnings happen when there's no law enforcement that steps in to stop them...

lol just because JK Rowling is british and comes from a nominally christian country, doesn't mean she's a christian or advocates the christian way of life.

Of course not. Did anyone say that?

The way we know she's a Christian is that she's said so.

 

[Citanul]

To say that witchcraft isnt real is to deny what the Bible says. And how God doesnt want his people going to witches, diviners, charmers etc.

But when the Bible speaks about those, it's not referring to someone pointing a piece of wood at another person and yelling out "Expelliarmus" with the intention of that persons's piece of wood flying out of their hand, or to a ring that turns you invisible when you put it on your finger. If those things ever happened in real life, it would be as the result of technology, not magic.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Yea theres no power greater than the power of the holy spirit, which is love. And the only way to the Father is through Jesus, who showed us this love.

Thats something all those sorcerers are lacking. Whether its hp or star wars or lotr or frozen or whoever is popularized in those stories.

They may make an attempt at love, but its not pure the way Jesus showed. And its not done through 'magic' or for his own ends.
The pharoah attempted to demonstrate a power he obtained theough sorcery, but God put him right. Moses, who did not have any power of his own obtained through sorcery, was given power from above to work miracles. Not to demonstrate he had power, but that God had.
Saul also attempted to contact the dead through the witch of endor. But he paid a huge price for this disobedience.

To say that witchcraft isnt real is to deny what the Bible says. And how God doesnt want his people going to witches, diviners, charmers etc.

I'm fairly certain you have me on ignore, but I'm still going to say this anyway....

We all would agree that there's no power greater than God, none of us are saying the occult is a good thing, that witchcraft isn't real, or even that we shouldn't discern what we read and watch to see how it impacts our lives. What we are saying is there is a difference between the fictional magic of Harry Potter, LOTR, (insert fictional piece here), and real life occultism. If a Christian is going to be tempted to get into occultism by reading Harry Potter or LOTR, they shouldn't read those books, but if they aren't tempted because they know it's not real, they are free to do so. That's the exact same logic applied by Paul in 1 Corinthians 8, however, it's about food food sacrificed to idols than fiction.

 

[Goodbook]

Uh, no, there is not much difference lotr and hp are to do with witchcraft and sorcery the occult is actually much bigger than what you think.

To say it has nothing to do with occult is a lie. They are stories about it, but they make it out to be something that occultists want it to be,,,to have a power that actually doesnt work to their advantage in reality. Eg LOTR had stuff about runes. Runes are used in divination. hp mentions scrying. Scrying is an occult practice.

Its like saying Jesus parables have nothing to do with the truth and are just stories. Uh no.

 

[Goodbook]

I think some people neeed to face up to reality, and actually put away lies they are reading or wtaching or playing and then being influenced by. Maybe people just dont want to give it up and think as long as its entertaining it doesnt matter?

Well, i think it matters, otherwise I wouldnt bother making this thread.

 

[Boogeyman07]

But does it really desensitise them? By the time anyone becomes aware of the occult to the point where they might develop an interest in it, they should long have been able to distinguish between fiction and reality. If not then there's an underlying problem which has nothing to do with Harry Potter.

There are many reasons why someone might choose to explore the occult, but I would have thought that having liked Harry Potter (or something similar) as a child wouldn't be very high up on that list.

True. I think it ultimately comes down to the parenting the kids have. Kids are like sponges so, I think it would be rather easy for a kid (who youre right would probably have underlying problems) that could easily get caught up in the fantasy, which could slowly but surely lead to bad things, for example when realizing that magic is a real thing could be all for finding out what its all about and getting into it. Now if that were a big problem im sure we would all be agreeing right now so I definitely see yours and others points on the matter and agree for the most part. I also love lotr... i think its a great series (never read the books, heard they were good).

 

[Goodbook]

I rememebr this one girl in high school, she was atheist right, she was obssessed with star wars, so when it came out again at the movies she desperately wanted to see it. I couldnt really see the appeal and thought it a big deal about nothing, but she would be someone who would go to a midnight screening for her idol.

Another friends I know through work, totally obssesed with The Hobbit, think they saw it like ten times at the movies, thought that was obssessive for such a lame film. Its not that the story was bad...actually the book was quite interesting, but they were grown adults acting like children over a movie. Its this obssessive nature of these things that are distrubing, because they cast a spell over people. Actually its a kind of hypnosis.

What else, oh another high school girl, i remember was the one who got me to read LOTR. I thought ok, as she was raving about it. She was another obssessive. I thought, well fantastical, but not anything earth shattering.

For my own self, it was maybe disney films, or michael jackson, who actually was an occultist. He actually made himself into an idol, and that was through his music videos and glorifying the occult (he got to be number one with the video, thriller) at the time I didnt know this though. I just thought he was cool. But actually, all this stuff came out later about him that you wouldnt believe, but it was all witchfcraft and sorcery and terrible stuff that he was into. Not that he would be an obvious person like say marilyn manson. But just enough to hook you into his own world. Wizards and witches are just people that have given over to satan to obtain a power that is not theirs and not from God.

It is not just storybook characters.

 

[Saucy]

I've never even seen Harry Potter or LOTR. Haven't read the books either. Not because of any conviction, but because they just haven't seemed like something I would enjoy. I could be wrong. But you're in here, either purposely or inadvertently, judging people. You're always making these kinds of statements. No one is giving in to any Satanic or evil spirit, practicing black magic, or doing anything that grieves God. They're watching a movie. If you feel convicted about it, fine. But you don't have to push those convictions on others and make it seem like their Christianity is at stake if they watched Harry Potter.

 

[Cearbhall]

I think some people neeed to face up to reality, and actually put away lies they are reading or wtaching or playing and then being influenced by. Maybe people just dont want to give it up and think as long as its entertaining it doesnt matter?

Well, i think it matters, otherwise I wouldnt bother making this thread.

Do you think it should matter to non-Christians, or is this all aimed at Christians who believe that good and evil forces actually exist? Because I'm personally not understanding the warnings in this thread. I'm not any more worried about magic than I am about running over a unicorn when I'm driving around.

 

[Boogeyman07]

I dont think arguing will solve anything... this is a good topic to discuss. Obviously we wont all agree. Goodbook feels strongly on the matter, given all the people who disagree its no surprise (s)he is making stronger statements. No need to fire back.

 

[Saucy]

Do you think it should matter to non-Christians, or is this all aimed at Christians who believe that good and evil forces actually exist? Because I'm personally not understanding the warnings in this thread. I'm not any more worried about magic than I am about running over a unicorn when I'm driving around.

You didn't hear the news? Unicorns were recently discovered.