Witches, wizards and the occult

[Goodbook]

A unicorn is just an animal that has one horn, could be a rhino.

There are different names in the bible for differnt animals, like dragon is the name for dinosaur, before everyone started calling them dinosaurs.

 

[Goodbook]

Im not pushing anything sorry. Im just saying, and also, if God really doesnt like something hed let us know in the bible and He does.

 

[Goodbook]

God has given us different gifts including spirit of discernment. It is not because God is a killjoy and says you cant have any fun or read a book or whatever. Its just He wants you to know the Truth and not be deceived. Thats all.

 

[Citanul]

I rememebr this one girl in high school, she was atheist right, she was obssessed with star wars, so when it came out again at the movies she desperately wanted to see it. I couldnt really see the appeal and thought it a big deal about nothing, but she would be someone who would go to a midnight screening for her idol.

Another friends I know through work, totally obssesed with The Hobbit, think they saw it like ten times at the movies, thought that was obssessive for such a lame film. Its not that the story was bad...actually the book was quite interesting, but they were grown adults acting like children over a movie. Its this obssessive nature of these things that are distrubing, because they cast a spell over people. Actually its a kind of hypnosis.

What else, oh another high school girl, i remember was the one who got me to read LOTR. I thought ok, as she was raving about it. She was another obssessive. I thought, well fantastical, but not anything earth shattering.

For my own self, it was maybe disney films, or michael jackson, who actually was an occultist. He actually made himself into an idol, and that was through his music videos and glorifying the occult (he got to be number one with the video, thriller) at the time I didnt know this though. I just thought he was cool. But actually, all this stuff came out later about him that you wouldnt believe, but it was all witchfcraft and sorcery and terrible stuff that he was into. Not that he would be an obvious person like say marilyn manson. But just enough to hook you into his own world. Wizards and witches are just people that have given over to satan to obtain a power that is not theirs and not from God.

It is not just storybook characters.

While they may have been obsessed with those things, it was nothing to do with the occult. People can become obsessed with all sorts of things - you're from New Zealand, so you should be fully aware of how obsessed with rugby many of your fellow countrymen can become.

Is the obsession a bad thing? In many cases, quite possibly. But the problem is with the state of obsession, not with whatever is being obsessed over.

It's pretty clear that you're just not into things like Harry Potter, Lord of Rings, Narnia or Star Wars, and that's OK. No one's saying that you have to like them. But there's a difference between simply not liking them and the distorted view that you have.

 

[Citanul]

Im not pushing anything sorry. Im just saying, and also, if God really doesnt like something hed let us know in the bible and He does.

Really? Where does the Bible say that God doesn't want us reading/watching fantasy?

 

[Lulav]

​

 

[Lulav]

Ladies and Gentlemen
While this thread has proceeded for the most part in a well mannered way
It has had some problems.
I am reopening this thread after a thorough cleaning of OT posts,
Flames and SOP violations. If your post is missing it is because it falls
into those categories. Others may see a <SE> which means a Staff Edit

Please keep in mind the rules of the site as well as this forum being for singles only.
Please do not make ad hominem remarks If you don't like the subject you don't
have to participate.

From this point on any reported violations
will be actioned according to the new protocol.

Permanently
Thank You ​

 

[CCHIPSS]

In the case of ouija, it's the ideomotor reflex. Minuscule muscle responses from largely subconscious thoughts. In other words there's nothing paranormal about it--subconscious thoughts and expectations can result in such small muscle responses that it can seem that an outside force is causing movement. If someone was legitimately interested to find out if there was some sort of mysterious spiritual force behind the ouija board they would see if the thing would move on its own without anyone touching it. Notice that this never happens. Also notice that ouija boards are sold in the same aisle where you can buy Clue or Sorry. It's a toy, a meaningless toy.



"Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world." There is a rather significant portion of the Christian world that has been marketed an entire system of "spiritual warfare" with the idea that there are demons and devils hidden under every rock and that these demons have total systematic control over everything. Small problem here, the entire Christian religion is based on the fact that God won, Jesus is raised. We just celebrated Easter on the Western calendar, the whole point of our celebration is that Jesus is alive, God won. Sin, death, hell, and the devil are defeated.

Why do so many Christians want to ascribe glory to a pack of defeated dogs?

-CryptoLutheran

My point is if someone ask us Christians to go and see something of the occult, do not just say yes. Do not just go and say "I will prove that it is all fake" or "I will show them that God is stronger." Pray and meditate on Jesus first. Humble yourselves before God. Do not underestimate the demons.

Yes Jesus has defeated Satan. But demons are still stronger than humans. And without God's protection demons are highly dangerous.

I am of the opinion that those shaking and rambling in the Pentecostal churches are all from demons. So Christians are not immune the the influences of demons. In fact those demons might appear as angels of light.

So make sure you have Jesus' protection before you deal with these things. It is not us that has overcome the devil. But God who has overcame the devil.

 

[CCHIPSS]

I'm fairly certain you have me on ignore, but I'm still going to say this anyway....

We all would agree that there's no power greater than God, none of us are saying the occult is a good thing, that witchcraft isn't real, or even that we shouldn't discern what we read and watch to see how it impacts our lives. What we are saying is there is a difference between the fictional magic of Harry Potter, LOTR, (insert fictional piece here), and real life occultism. If a Christian is going to be tempted to get into occultism by reading Harry Potter or LOTR, they shouldn't read those books, but if they aren't tempted because they know it's not real, they are free to do so. That's the exact same logic applied by Paul in 1 Corinthians 8, however, it's about food food sacrificed to idols than fiction.

I agree with this. I had been playing video games since I was a kid. Many of them is about magic and fantasy. I also seen plenty of sci-fi horrors and scary movies. I read a few fantasy books which includes magic.

When I am younger I had even seen some weird things, that I cannot explain today. I had seen people looking at me. And I had seen a shadow figure once.

However here I am today a Christian. God calls whoever he wills to be his disciples, both the best and the worst of the humans.

And I have no interest at practicing anything occult. In fact I see occult practices as dangerous and want to stay far away from them.

 

[CCHIPSS]

I think some people neeed to face up to reality, and actually put away lies they are reading or wtaching or playing and then being influenced by. Maybe people just dont want to give it up and think as long as its entertaining it doesnt matter?

Well, i think it matters, otherwise I wouldn't bother making this thread.

I don't think it is a good idea to avoid discussions on these topics. It is almost like avoid talking about sex with your kids. So then the kids learn about sex in high school from their friends and movies. And we all know what will happen.

I think kids should be exposed to fantasy occultism (not real occultism). And the parents should tell the kids about the danger of these practices. At first these spirits might seems like fun and might even act friendly. But according to the bible all these other spirits are demons and wants to harm us. So we should focus alone on God who loves us.

 

[CCHIPSS]

I rememebr this one girl in high school, she was atheist right, she was obssessed with star wars, so when it came out again at the movies she desperately wanted to see it. I couldnt really see the appeal and thought it a big deal about nothing, but she would be someone who would go to a midnight screening for her idol.

Another friends I know through work, totally obssesed with The Hobbit, think they saw it like ten times at the movies, thought that was obssessive for such a lame film. Its not that the story was bad...actually the book was quite interesting, but they were grown adults acting like children over a movie. Its this obssessive nature of these things that are distrubing, because they cast a spell over people. Actually its a kind of hypnosis.

What else, oh another high school girl, i remember was the one who got me to read LOTR. I thought ok, as she was raving about it. She was another obssessive. I thought, well fantastical, but not anything earth shattering.

For my own self, it was maybe disney films, or michael jackson, who actually was an occultist. He actually made himself into an idol, and that was through his music videos and glorifying the occult (he got to be number one with the video, thriller) at the time I didnt know this though. I just thought he was cool. But actually, all this stuff came out later about him that you wouldnt believe, but it was all witchfcraft and sorcery and terrible stuff that he was into. Not that he would be an obvious person like say marilyn manson. But just enough to hook you into his own world. Wizards and witches are just people that have given over to satan to obtain a power that is not theirs and not from God.

It is not just storybook characters.

I think obsessions can take many forms. It doesn't have to be just witches and wizards. I know people who are die hard Counter Strike players. There are no witches or wizards in CS, just guns and grenades. However many people are obsessed over these kind of shooter games.

Anything on this earth can become an idol or an obsession if we let it.

I think the revelation happens when people realize that nothing on this earth is God. Only God is God.

 

[BookofMatt]

I see the argument as no different than those who claim that violent media creates violence in people, which is not only unequivocally false, but in the few cases where someone did cite media as motivation for a crime, it was always the result of a deeper psychological issue. Anything, even something completely innocuous, can influence someone with an unbalanced frame of mind. I mean, The Beatles wrote "Helter Skelter" as a nonsense song named after an amusement park ride; just because Charles Manson interpreted it as a prophecy of a coming race war when he committed his crimes, does that mean we should label The Beatles racist warmongers? David Berkowitz killed people because he claimed his neighbor's dog instructed him to do so, does that mean we should outlaw pet ownership?

I honestly don't even know if there's ever been an example of a child practicing legitimate witchcraft as a result of 'Harry Potter', but I doubt it. I'm still waiting for the Satanist armies which were supposed to be the result of 'Dungeons & Dragons''s popularity. When it comes to very young children whose media intake is able to be monitored, it's the parents' job to be frank and direct with their kids about certain things, be it occultism or sex or violence. I was allowed to watch horror films when I was a child because my parents realized I was able to make a distinction between reality and fantasy and thus, the movies never scared me and never influenced my behavior. Not only did I never murder anyone (and not only do I have no real idea of what real-life occultism is compared to the movies) but I eventually became the only Christian in my otherwise irreligious family. Go figure.

I don't always want to blame the parents, but there's a big difference between the parent who will sit down with their child and ask them questions about how well they understand the content in 'Harry Potter' and the parent who will start petitions to get the books banned outright. In regard to what CCHIPSS said, I actually do think there's just as much benefit in telling your children "this is why this is just a fairy tale" as there is in meditating over it. Maybe there's Biblical allegories in 'Harry Potter' to find and discuss, I have no real idea as I've never read the series. My only real points have already been reiterated throughout this thread multiple times: obsession in general can be harmful, there's either no link or very tenuous links between fantasy fiction and occultism and it's worse to hide these things from children than to openly and honestly discuss it with them.

 

[Cearbhall]

I see the argument as no different than those who claim that violent media creates violence in people, which is not only unequivocally false, but in the few cases where someone did cite media as motivation for a crime, it was always the result of a deeper psychological issue. Anything, even something completely innocuous, can influence someone with an unbalanced frame of mind.

Yup. My #1 response when I hear people make such arguments, whether about violence or magic, is "Speak for yourself."

I've noticed that with a variety of issues, the people who struggle with them like to believe that everyone else has the same problem.

 

[Sketcher]

Uh, no, there is not much difference lotr and hp are to do with witchcraft and sorcery the occult is actually much bigger than what you think.

To say it has nothing to do with occult is a lie. They are stories about it, but they make it out to be something that occultists want it to be,,,to have a power that actually doesnt work to their advantage in reality. Eg LOTR had stuff about runes. Runes are used in divination. hp mentions scrying. Scrying is an occult practice.

Runes were used both as a means of divination and as an alphabet. In The Hobbit, they were referred to as the latter rather than the former, IIRC. Besides - runes are boring. I don't see the appeal outside of someone who either 1) likes the occult anyway or 2) is a Neo-Nazi moron claiming them as part of his "heritage."

 

[Goodbook]

lol I'm the one that made this thread which means, I can discuss it without partaking in it.
As for children, well, I think that if you a parent you want to model good things and so if your child starts being interested in something you discern as occult based, you warn them and just keep them grounded in the Word.

There's lots all around us that is false and demonic, and so, you do need to stand for the truth. Don't just be a total pushover and succumb to whatever is popular. You can say no.

For example, when I was working at the library and a lady, much older than me, asked if I had read 50 shades of grey as if I should be reading it, because its so popular. And I'm like, no, I'm not interested. I'm not even interested in 'Girl with the dragon tattoo' because well, I don't care for dragons.
I did borrow that one out of curiousity and started reading it but then got up to a part where a cat was strangled and I thought, why am I even bothering reading this...I know its fiction, I don't care who got murdered in it, and frankly it makes me feel sick. Why? So I didn't finish it.

There were heaps of occult books in the library as the trend was starting to be for teen paranormal romance. Not that I'm a teen, but I knew older females that were really into the sick and twisted raunchy fantasy books, and books like 'the secret' etc.

 

[Goodbook]

I think obsessions can take many forms. It doesn't have to be just witches and wizards. I know people who are die hard Counter Strike players. There are no witches or wizards in CS, just guns and grenades. However many people are obsessed over these kind of shooter games.

Anything on this earth can become an idol or an obsession if we let it.

I think the revelation happens when people realize that nothing on this earth is God. Only God is God.

those violent fantasy games. ugh. But thats another topic.
I was just talking about witches and wizards and occult here. Alot of people seem to think there are no such things as witches and wizards. uh no. Freemasonry and wicca are witch and wizard groups.

 

[Goodbook]

well, I wouldnt actively buy into anything that was fantasy...for children, if I was a parent. Its a waste of money and I can think of better things to do with them. Like I wouldn't forbid it but I would just tell them the truth. Its like not perpetuating the santa claus myth..or not buying into halloween. I mean those things aren't necessary to enjoy childhood.
Children need love and care more than fantasy escapism. And its not good to deliberately expose children to occult writings. I can understand why christian parents won't buy into things like HP, now that I'm a christian I just get that, and I don't condemn them for it. Its a choice and a valid one.
Its like you wouldn't expose your children to inappropriate content, the same thing, I wouldn't expose them to dark things and questionable spiritual practices that are disguised as fantasy. I would think twice before I did that.

Anyway, think I said enough, I didn't realise people were so adamant that there was absolutely nothing wrong with witchcraft and sorcery and that they thought it was of God.

 

[Noxot]

harry potter ≠ witchcraft and sorcery. but people will believe whatever they want to believe.

Christians tend to think that their understanding of God is really God. so many can't seem to separate what they think the bible says vs what the bible says. we all know in part.

the minor possibility of someone being corrupted by harry potter is far outweighed by the good it does to people. if God is so dull then I would hate to live forever with him. all the different evils in the world, many which go unnoticed, and THIS is what some Christians feel is wrong with the world... I don't get it!

at least she is not ultra zealous though. I can't stand blindly zealous people. 'do gooders' are pretty terrifying sometimes.. oh well, +'s and -'s to most things.

50 shades of grey though... = ewwwww trash.

~cough~

 

[Swan7]

well, I wouldnt actively buy into anything that was fantasy...for children, if I was a parent. Its a waste of money and I can think of better things to do with them. Like I wouldn't forbid it but I would just tell them the truth. Its like not perpetuating the santa claus myth..or not buying into halloween. I mean those things aren't necessary to enjoy childhood.
Children need love and care more than fantasy escapism.

I do certainly see what you are saying here, I really do and I agree. I do not teach my nephews lies about those myths either. I'm very adamant on the teachings of Christ, and so is their mother.
Growing up, there wasn't much love going on, however my mother was there but only to teach me about God by giving me devotionals. She tried her hardest to get the family to do that once a week after supper, but the tension from my dad was too much, so I needed an escape. Both singing and games/fantasy books and of course, those devotionals.

I can understand why christian parents won't buy into things like HP, now that I'm a christian I just get that, and I don't condemn them for it. Its a choice and a valid one.

My dad did actually buy me the series when a kid. But I never once thought about or was tempted about seeking the occult at all.

Its like you wouldn't expose your children to inappropriate content, the same thing, I wouldn't expose them to dark things and questionable spiritual practices that are disguised as fantasy. I would think twice before I did that.

I do have to say, that is MUCH darker than reading a fantasy book, but you had it right about telling kids the truth or asking questions about what they just read. You can't shelter them, in my opinion that's the worst thing you could do.

Anyway, think I said enough, I didn't realise people were so adamant that there was absolutely nothing wrong with witchcraft and sorcery and that they thought it was of God.

Of course there's something wrong with the occult and such, there's a lot wrong with the world don't forget. I don't agree with a lot in the HP series, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be influenced by it - or the world for that matter.

 

[Noxot]

but anything that is a distraction to higher life should die. we are often hard-hearted and stumble around in various weaknesses and so God has to create steps for us to climb up to heaven. the stages of the wilderness and the many rooms in heaven are the dialogue and experiences of the person with God, we going through various things that help us to go nearer to God or if our hearts are blind we will walk backwards. for most normal people, those better things in the world such as harry potter books, are much preferred over evil things that could be done in the world.

spiritual life will vary from person to person even though it is also universal. sometimes the soul gets too caught up with trying to be spiritual, other times it is foolishly doing some things when it could be profited more by doing better, heavenly things. sometimes a thing is more spiritual for one person that it is for another. if it is pleasing to God for a soul to not read harry potter then let it be so. if it is pleasing to God that the soul enjoys harry potter and the Lord is pleased that his children are doing such things with one another, then so it is.

but God is not so simple to know, even though he is. God is love, real and everlasting love. but God also leads us in ways that we know not and he turns crooked paths straight. it is not such a simple matter to say God said in the bible not to do X, not when I could use the bible to justify all kinds of evil things, even though I have an understanding that God is not evil at all and to understand what God says we must reason with him.