KayJoy

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It is very strange how we put so much work and effort into getting others to believe in demons and magic and witchcraft...just so that we can later Tell them to fear and stay away from the same, or else. "The devil wants you to believe he isnt real," some say. And the same say to convince us to believe IN him and the power he has. Which is better or worse?

Why isnt belief in God enough?

This...
“Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.” — James 2:19 (KJV)
 
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JackRT

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Occams Barber

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There's a bit of panicked pearl clutching going on in this thread. If you treat this stuff seriously you give it a credence it doesn't deserve. Silly superstition needs to be treated for what it is - silly.

BTW: Adding a 'k' to' magic' doesn't turn a party trick into a demonic force for evil.

OB
 
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Hidden In Him

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There's a bit of panicked pearl clutching going on in this thread. If you treat this stuff seriously you give it a credence it doesn't deserve. Silly superstition needs to be treated for what it is - silly.

That's an interesting phrase : )

When it comes to atheists, the above is a standard position. I suppose what makes me concerned is I don't recall there being as much faithlessness among Christians in the past as there is here now. I find it troubling where "believers" are concerned.

But life goes on. Not going to spoil my mood : )
BTW: Adding a 'k' to' magic' doesn't turn a party trick into a demonic force for evil.

No it doesn't. But it implies Satanic intent, or else they would not deliberately use a term coined by the most famous Satanist of the 20th century.
 
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FireDragon76

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I stumbled on a link for Cosmopolitan Magazine and was met with the following...

Yes, You Need Spell Candles
Like scented candles, but better.

That was the headline. I did a double take to make sure I was on the right website. I glanced at the browser and saw a different description in the header.

Where to Find Magic Spell Candles, Ritual Candles Online

As I skimmed the article I encountered an unexpected surprise. This wasn't fun and games or a Halloween prank. They provided directions for the spell in the piece.

In the field of candle magic, different colors signify different areas of life—like red for love, sex, and passion, or green for prosperity and money. To work candle magic, choose a candle based on what you want to happen. Then, visualize your goal; “dress” the candle by rubbing it with oil and/or scratching in symbols while focusing on your goal; and finally, light the candle.

This is the second article they've written on candle magick. The first was published earlier this year. They've elected to use the occult spelling for the word to differentiate it from a magic show. The demographic for the magazine is fairly young. Most readers are in their teens or early twenties. Many would assume its harmless.

Question

How would you address this with a child, loved one, or a stranger? Does it bother you? Please share your thoughts.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

It's pagan religious or magical beliefs, and if you don't agree with it, just ignore it. Magazines like Cosmo are read by people other than Christians, some of whom are pagans or practice magick.

I would explain to a child that different people have different religious beliefs and leave it at that.
 
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cow451

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I stumbled on a link for Cosmopolitan Magazine and was met with the following...

Yes, You Need Spell Candles
Like scented candles, but better.

That was the headline. I did a double take to make sure I was on the right website. I glanced at the browser and saw a different description in the header.

Where to Find Magic Spell Candles, Ritual Candles Online

As I skimmed the article I encountered an unexpected surprise. This wasn't fun and games or a Halloween prank. They provided directions for the spell in the piece.

In the field of candle magic, different colors signify different areas of life—like red for love, sex, and passion, or green for prosperity and money. To work candle magic, choose a candle based on what you want to happen. Then, visualize your goal; “dress” the candle by rubbing it with oil and/or scratching in symbols while focusing on your goal; and finally, light the candle.

This is the second article they've written on candle magick. The first was published earlier this year. They've elected to use the occult spelling for the word to differentiate it from a magic show. The demographic for the magazine is fairly young. Most readers are in their teens or early twenties. Many would assume its harmless.

Question

How would you address this with a child, loved one, or a stranger? Does it bother you? Please share your thoughts.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella
Teach them the difference between religion and science.
 
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JackRT

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There is very little evidence of actual "ritual Satanic" abuse but there is quite a bit of evidence of bogus accusations and the resultant ruination of lives.
 
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cow451

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I would address it as a pagan nonsense targetting at not too smart people. And i would stop buying/browsing such low quality media.
Let us not call people “not smart” simply because we disagree with them. And what religion has practitioners selling prayer cloths and anointing oils...

upload_2020-9-11_22-6-21.jpeg
 
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RushMAN

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Question

How would you address this with a child, loved one, or a stranger? Does it bother you? Please share your thoughts.

I don't know. At the risk of bring the wrath of CF on me for some reason it does not brother me. At one time in March I was depressed enough with all that is going on that I did look at sites about magic and such. Never did anything about it though. I don't know how I would respond to people. My thoughts
 
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cow451

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LoL!!! You guys are incredible!! You are saying demons have no influence in the behavior of men? I can't believe you hold this position as if you are doing so with a straight face.
My face is extremely straight. Thank you.
 
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cow451

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I can't believe this thread, LoL. Crypto, if the Devil is done and his quiver is empty, why is so much evil still going on on this earth. Too much caffeine or something? :)
Free will.
 
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ViaCrucis

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What in the Western Church has often been called superstition, from the Latin superstitio is what the ancient Church referred to as δεισιδαιμονία (deisidaimonia), from the word deisos meaning "dread" or even "timid" and daimon, which in the ancient Greek world was a catch-all term for various spiritual, divine, or semi-divine beings. The concept of the Greek daimon was appropriated in 2nd Temple Jewish parlance as being negative, a term to refer to specifically evil spirits, and false gods--which is the meaning which entered into Christian usage and is the basis for the Christian concept of the demon, a fallen angel and diabolical minion.

In Christian usage deisidaimonia referred to what might be described as a false spirituality, or wrong religious sentiment; one based upon fear of spiritual things. And hence how it came to cover what the more familiar word superstition often entails: irrational fear, dread of the supernatural, a false belief vis-a-vis religion and spirituality.

The Church has always condemned what it views as deisidaimonia, because Christians should not live lives of fear and dread over false spiritual things. And it has always been a constant battle, because official Christian belief and practice and folk beliefs and folk practices have not always been aligned. Which is why we have archeological evidence of "Christian" talismans and charms. For example here's a magical amulet from the 5th century,

20.jpg


On one side is a depiction of the raising of Lazarus as recorded in the Gospel of John, and on the reverse is a magical incantation in Greek.

Something like this would have been harshly condemned by Church leadership, but nevertheless was something that would have existed among general lay practice.

This is the same kind of disparity between official Christian teaching and practice and folk practice that we see show up now and again throughout Christian history.

Which is why after Charlemagne conquered Saxony a council held at Paderborn was held to address the conversion of the Saxons now under Frankish authority. At the top of the list of things Paderborn did was condemn belief in witches and witchcraft, and especially to condemn the pagan practice of hunting down and killing supposed witches; anyone found engaging in witch-hunting was to be arrested and put to death. You know, because killing people that you believe to be a witch is murder.

This bears repeating. So let me repeat it. The official Church position, and since the Franks were officially Christian in their religion, that it was vitally important to stamp out pagan superstitious practices and beliefs--such as the belief in the existence of witches and witchcraft and the hunting down of supposed witches.

Pagans, not Christians, believed in witchcraft.
Pagans, not Christians, were hunting witches.

This was official Christian teaching and practice in the middle ages.

There is this idea in the modern age that during the middle ages the Church was going around hunting down vestigial pagans labeling them as witches and burning them at the stake.

But, and I can't stress this enough, official church-sanctioned witch-hunting was not a practice of medieval Christian Europe. It did, however, become a practice of early modern Europe. With the publication of the Malleus Maleficarum in 1487 (for those keeping score, that's only a few years before Columbus made his trip to the Caribbean islands), which was specifically written to try and convince the Church that witches were real, and that witchcraft really existed, and that someone needed to stop them (insert obvious parallels to modern moral panics such as the Satanic Panic of the 1980's). Because even when the Malleus was written and published the general Church position was that this was superstition, it was false, not real, there were no such thing as witches. And then, of course, attitudes do begin to change. And, in fact, where attitudes seem to change the most on this topic isn't in Catholic countries, but Protestant ones following the Reformation.

That's why in the 17th century you have the Puritans at Salem, Massachusetts hunting people down and burning them as witches. This wasn't some vestige of the medieval period. The Puritans were, here, very much a product of THEIR time. Witch-hunting was a modern thing, belief in witches and in witchcraft was a novel idea introduced within the MODERN history of Christianity.

And so, again, deisidaimonia, superstition, is something the Church has consistently had to battle against as an internal struggle within Christianity.

The belief in witchcraft is in the same category as other forms of deisdaimonia--belief in astrology, the belief in the "evil eye", belief that certain numbers hold some kind of spiritual power, such as a fear of the number 13 or the number 666, belief that amulets, charms, or talismans are of any value or significance, belief that certain things are "lucky" or "unlucky" such as a black cat or breaking a mirror. These are all examples of things which are commonly found in "folk" belief but which are condemned as false spirituality, false religiosity, as deisidaimonia--superstition.

One can no more manipulate the universe by speaking a magical formula than one can speak to the dead by going to a so-called psychic, or defend against the "evil eye" by wearing some charm or talisman.

Or, as in the case of this thread's OP--no one can do anything by playing with candles.

And while we're at it, you can't talk with the dead by playing a board game made by Hasbro Toys, or predict the future by tipping around a ball of plastic filled with water, or read someone's fortune by playing with a deck of cards.

It seems like this is stuff that should be obvious. But, because there has been a very lucrative industry of fear-mongering, snake oil peddlers, and false prophets and false theologians actively deceiving Christians to believe in anti-Christian tosh such as this, well apparently it does need to get said. And repeatedly said again and again.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Ok. :) That sounds like the best advice you've given me all day, LoL.

I wasn't trying to be cute. It seems like you are legitimately confused about very basic Christian teaching, such as the problem of sin.

This is something that you can very easily rectify by simply cracking your Bible open and seeing what it says.

Here's what you won't find in the Bible: People do bad things because the devil caused them to do it.
Here is what you will find in the Bible: People are sinners and so we act in ways contrary to how God wills that we act, and so we need the grace of God to rescue us and restore us to communion with God, and this God does through the sending of Jesus Christ, His only-begotten Son, who suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, buried, and who rose on the third day.

You've spent a lot of time talking about just how powerful demons are in this thread, but you have offered nothing biblical, or of theological substance, have said nothing concerning God's work of redemption through Christ, and God's healing of the world through Him. You know, the whole point of Christianity.

As far as I'm concerned the "spiritual warefare" brand of religion that is so common today is nothing more than itself a diabolical distraction in order to distract Christians from paying attention to what actually matters: Jesus Christ, His Gospel, and our calling to love our neighbor.

Want to know where the devil is? Try looking at where Christians have stopped talking about Christ, have chosen to ignore Christ's commands that we love and serve our fellow man, and have chosen to bend over backward for lies, conspiracy theories, and false Christ-less religion.

What, you want the devil to show up as a big scary horned monster talking about Ouji boards, pen and paper RPGs, or scary movies aired on Halloween?

Have we forgotten what the Apostle said? The devil masquerades as an angel of light, and his servants--the false apostles, the false teachers, the false prophets--likewise masquerade as servants of Christ. So tell me, where does the devil seem more likely to be, in some secret dungeon filled with black-robed devil worshipers, or enjoying the mockery of a church that refuses to preach the Gospel and live like its true?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Occams Barber

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That's an interesting phrase : )

Pearl clutching
upload_2020-9-12_13-9-8.jpeg


When it comes to atheists, the above is a standard position. I suppose what makes me concerned is I don't recall there being as much faithlessness among Christians in the past as there is here now. I find it troubling where "believers" are concerned.

Judging from this thread it's also a standard, and eminently sensible, position for many Christians.
OB
 
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