Witchcraft 101

[Occams Barber]

You said this:

Would for example the dead being raised qualify?

Then I said:

Sure - certifiably dead and in an advanced state of putrefaction might get me interested.

Then you said:

No problem - what about immediate healing then - would that qualify?

Then I said:

Now now Carl - you offered me a resurrection - don't start backsliding

Then you said this

How about cancer completely disappearing and baffling the medics - hospital records available.

This is known in the trade as 'shifting the goal posts'. My job is to keep you honest. If you can't provide an event where the resurrection of a putrefying corpse is scientifically attested - say so. We all sometimes become caught up in the heat of the moment.

OB

 

[Carl Emerson]

You said this:


Then I said:


Then you said:


Then I said:


Then you said this


This is known in the trade as 'shifting the goal posts'. My job is to keep you honest. If you can't provide an event where the resurrection of a putrefying corpse is scientifically attested - say so. We all sometimes become caught up in the heat of the moment.

OB

I can refer you to an incident in which a corpse of a baby was retrieved from the fridge at the morgue - was prayed for and is alive. This happened in the church of a very well known Anglican Vicar serving in Jordan and Iraq.

It is just that I have personal irrefutable evidence of a recent total healing from cancer including medical records so I thought that might be of more interest...

 

[Occams Barber]

I can refer you to an incident in which a corpse of a baby was retrieved from the fridge at the morgue - was prayed for and is alive. This happened in the church of a very well known Anglican Vicar serving in Jordan and Iraq.

It is just that I have personal irrefutable evidence of a recent total healing from cancer including medical records so I thought that might be of more interest...

Thanks anyway Carl. Just looking at your summary explanations its obvious that you haven't considered alternative explanations and that you're primed to believe in divine intervention.

Your first incident is obviously anecdotal. In any case, revival after time spent in a low temperature environment is not exactly a miracle.

Your second incident. "personal irrefutable evidence" from someone who desperately wants to believe. Is cancer remission impossible? Does your 'medical evidence' stand up to scrutiny?

You really need to look at these things with a sceptical eye before promoting them as miraculous. Otherwise you compromise your own credibility.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

OB

 

[Carl Emerson]

Thanks anyway Carl. Just looking at your summary explanations its obvious that you haven't considered alternative explanations and that you're primed to believe in divine intervention.

Your first incident is obviously anecdotal. In any case, revival after time spent in a low temperature environment is not exactly a miracle.

Your second incident. "personal irrefutable evidence" from someone who desperately wants to believe. Is cancer remission impossible? Does your 'medical evidence' stand up to scrutiny?

You really need to look at these things with a sceptical eye before promoting them as miraculous. Otherwise you compromise your own credibility.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

OB

Please OB - I am dead serious. I prayed for a close friend a few weeks ago with several tumours in the thyroid. She had a pre OP biopsy which confirmed the malignancy. After prayer she went in for the OP and they ripped the thyroid out. On examination there was no cancer detectable and they were very embarrassed. In 2000 op's they had never seen such a thing. I have posted all the medical records with her permission. You can see that in my testimonial thread which you may be interested to read.

Jesus's Ministry Post #66

and here...

Speaking In Tongues Post #120

I have a firm background in science and demand evidential conclusions as you do.

 

[Occams Barber]

Please OB - I am dead serious. I prayed for a close friend a few weeks ago with several tumours in the thyroid. She had a pre OP biopsy which confirmed the malignancy. After prayer she went in for the OP and they ripped the thyroid out. On examination there was no cancer detectable and they were very embarrassed. In 2000 op's they had never seen such a thing. I have posted all the medical records with her permission. You can see that in my testimonial thread which you may be interested to read.

Jesus's Ministry Post #66

and here...

Speaking In Tongues Post #120

I have a firm background in science and demand evidential conclusions as you do.

Assuming these are actually medical records belonging to your friend, there is the possibility of an incorrect diagnosis pre-op or mixed records. There are also similar possibilities post op. Is spontaneous remission a known possibility?

Even though the letter indicates surprise, the surgeon (?) is fairly matter-of-fact about reviewing the pathology indicating that they accept the possibility of an explanation. The doctor says he/she will "get back to them regarding the answer to that question."

What were the results of that review?

I also had a look at your Jesus' Ministry testimonies. I know you believe you healed these people but these healings don't convince an old sceptic like me.

Remember I said we need to eliminate the possibility of a natural explanation.

I also said extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

OB

 

[Carl Emerson]

Hi there OB - First off I don't heal anyone - Jesus does that.

Second your demand for evidence is most welcome.

I will ask my friend about the promised report.

Thanks for the enjoyable conversation.

 

[Occams Barber]

Hi there OB - First off I don't heal anyone - Jesus does that.

Now you're picking on me

Second your demand for evidence is most welcome.

I didn't 'demand' evidence Carl. Remember, you asked me to look at this stuff. All I did was identify gaps which you appear to have missed.

If we accept, for the sake of argument, that faith healing is real and you're a real faith healer (OK - via Jesus), there is still an onus on you to look at this pragmatically. Even if you have faith healing abilities it's still possible that some of your 'patients' just believed themselves to be healed or weren't really ill or just claimed to be fixed etc.

Questioning a healing event is not the same as denying the possibility of faith healing.

OB

 

[tall73]

Gee, it’s almost as if the revelation of scripture “evolved” the theological thinking from “false [nonexistent] gods” to “oh, yeah there’s ‘bad things’ that behind all the BAD STUFF.”

The texts in Leviticus, Deuteronomy and the Psalm referenced all indicated an entity, and the discussion is on the nature of the entity.

Still, it’s quite the leap from demons inhabiting the occult to “don’t use certain red candles unless you want an incubus visitation.”

Did the portion you quoted from me address that at all?

 

[Carl Emerson]

OB...

OK I meant 'demand' in a positive way.

The very reason I publicly submit medical records is to eliminate the psychological factors you are concerned about.

Of course one can never combat the infinite regress argument - maybe the cells pretended to be malignant got ripped out with the thyroid and died when they were only intending to play a joke. And this happened after we prayed. We can stretch coincidence... but your namesake would demand that what is likely to be true most likely is rather than the other way around.

Funny how folks cling to science until it is threatening thier world view...

 

[Junia]

How about the ritual Satanic abuse of children, and then their murder?

demons have power of we let t hem. God's word tell s us not to be involved in the occult as it gives power to demons..our focus should be on Jesus and glorifying him not glorify the devil by using magic

 

[Junia]

Jesus ended all curses against us, cancelled our sins on the cross,.set us free. Why do we want to go back to messing about with demons??? We have no part with darkness anymore

 

[Junia]

OB...

OK I meant 'demand' in a positive way.

The very reason I publicly submit medical records is to eliminate the psychological factors you are concerned about.

Of course one can never combat the infinite regress argument - maybe the cells pretended to be malignant got ripped out with the thyroid and died when they were only intending to play a joke. And this happened after we prayed. We can stretch coincidence... but your namesake would demand that what is likely to be true most likely is rather than the other way around.

Funny how folks cling to science until it is threatening thier world view...

I am a pro science christian. I think Christianity and medical sciences like physical or mental health care don't contradict God. Except maybe Darwin's theories which helped one unlike medical or psychiatric treatmemt

 

[Junia]

Just because some medicines hard harmful effects like ECT or thalidomide doesn't mean all do...therefore God is not against all of it.

 

[Junia]

Ex d

It is very strange how we put so much work and effort into getting others to believe in demons and magic and witchcraft...just so that we can later Tell them to fear and stay away from the same, or else. "The devil wants you to believe he isnt real," some say. And the same try to convince us to believe IN him and the power he has. Which is better or worse?I



Why isnt belief in God enough?

for salvation from hell, our belief in Jesus and His finished work on the cross is enough but we are.in a spiritual war. Demons cannot take our salvation as no one can be snatched from God's hands (you.have to leave God to lose your salvation) but they can oppress us, make us feel apathy, condemnation etc..don't forget many diseases like cancer and Parkinson's can be devil attacks

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

I stumbled on a link for Cosmopolitan Magazine and was met with the following...

Yes, You Need Spell Candles
Like scented candles, but better.

That was the headline. I did a double take to make sure I was on the right website. I glanced at the browser and saw a different description in the header.

Where to Find Magic Spell Candles, Ritual Candles Online

As I skimmed the article I encountered an unexpected surprise. This wasn't fun and games or a Halloween prank. They provided directions for the spell in the piece.

In the field of candle magic, different colors signify different areas of life—like red for love, sex, and passion, or green for prosperity and money. To work candle magic, choose a candle based on what you want to happen. Then, visualize your goal; “dress” the candle by rubbing it with oil and/or scratching in symbols while focusing on your goal; and finally, light the candle.

This is the second article they've written on candle magick. The first was published earlier this year. They've elected to use the occult spelling for the word to differentiate it from a magic show. The demographic for the magazine is fairly young. Most readers are in their teens or early twenties. Many would assume its harmless.

Question

How would you address this with a child, loved one, or a stranger? Does it bother you? Please share your thoughts.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

Not surprised today.

 

[Junia]

Not surprised today. Media has been in a long decline.

I

I used to read ?cosmopolitan and similar magazines but stopped because they encouraged fornication and endorsed bed hopping and even lesbianism. I don't believe God wants sex to be outside of marriage between man and woman

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

I

I used to read ?cosmopolitan and similar magazines but stopped because they encouraged fornication and endorsed bed hopping and even lesbianism. I don't believe God wants sex to be outside of marriage between man and woman

I'm sure they are much worse than the last time I saw one, which has been quite awhile. I can't imagine what's in there today.

 

[Junia]

I'm sure they are much worse than the last time I saw one, which has been quite awhile. I can't imagine what's in there today.

I

Yes this was in about 2003 so a long time...my mum had a book she got from Cosmo magazine in the 80s. It has some good things in it about women s rights in the workplace, maternity health, family planning and dealing with rape but nowadays so much of women s magazines for younger ladies are not about good things but about sinful lifestyles.

 

[MBM888]

Question

How would you address this with a child, loved one, or a stranger? Does it bother you? Please share your thoughts.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

First, I don't think anyone under the age of about 18 should be reading that magazine, honestly. But, I can see some kids glancing at it if mom has a subscription, and it's lying around the house.

If it was a child, it would depend on the age and maturity of the kid. Around 5? "Don't worry about it. Go play." Pre-teen to tween? I would probably sit them down and discuss why Christians don't believe in casting spells, and have as open of a dialogue with them as I felt they could handle. Around 15 or older? I'd discuss it with them as an adult, and probably go a bit deeper than I would with a tween.

As for loved ones, I have no idea; I have some pretty eclectic loved ones, and not all of them are Christians, so I really have no idea. I would likely try to avoid the topic, unless they directly asked me, "What do you think of Cosmo writing about candle magic?!" Well, it's a secular magazine, so while that's definitely odd that they'd mention it, I'd put about as much weight into it as their surveys on how to find the love of your life or whatever they print. (I don't read Cosmo. Or, any magazine, really.)

A stranger? I can't imagine! I'm an introvert, and it's 2021, so even having a cursory, light conversation with a stranger is a novel experience, much less one deep enough to invoke the "what do you think of this?" type! I honestly don't know what I'd say; it would depend on the stranger, the circumstance, how I was feeling at the moment, whether I felt they would judge me for my own faith...on and on and on. (I need more info about this stranger. Are they a witchy type? A Christian? A non-religious person who's reading the article at the dentist's office?)

Anyroad, it's weird, but it's not surprising given that people don't really read magazines as much as they used to. The company's probably just doing it to garner some attention, which apparently worked. lol