Will the Messianic congregation make a comeback in these last days?

[rockytopva]

I believe the basic church congregations as seven...

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 1:20 - Revelation 2:1

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

Candlesticks - Seven church congregations
Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4

During the times of the first Messianic church it seemed the first church was dissipating away into what I would call the Smyrnaen church age, or the first age of the Gentiles. Which at that time, due to the Roman persecution, was non-denominational.

…and ye shall have tribulation ten days… - Revelation 2:10

Foxes book of Martyrs has the Roman persecutions as ten. The Smyrnaean Church age began with the Roman Emperor Nero burning down Rome and accusing the Christians of doing it. Smyrna in the Greek means “Myrrh,” in which the Smyrnaean martyrs represented the most pure form of Christianity of all the church ages. The martyred crowns were many as the Smyrnaean church age progressed.

Ye Shall Have Tribulation Ten Days…
Time Persecutor Description
67 AD Nero The Smyrna Church Age begins with Nero setting fire to Rome, and then blaming the Christians
81 AD Domitian Declaration that no Christian should be exempt from punishment, Paul’s Timothy died in 97 AD.
108 AD Trajan and Adrian Severe persecution against Christians from 108 to 138 AD during the time of the Bishop Ignatius
162 AD Marcos Aurelius Marcos Aurelius, commendable in study of philosophy, sharp and fierce towards Christians.
192 AD Severus This persecution was carried out by the will and prejudice of the people and extended into Africa.
235 AD Maximus Numberless Christians were slain without trial and burned indiscriminately in heaps
249 AD Decius Began because of the amazing increase in Christianity, and with the heathen temples forsaken.
257 AD Valerian The martyrs that fell during this persecution were innumerable, their tortures and deaths painful.
274 AD Aurelian A brief persecution that ended with the emperor’s assassination.
303 AD Diocletian The last persecution ended with Constantine’s triumph against Rome in 313 AD

Just before the persecution of Nero we have Paul in Jerusalem…

30 And all the city was moved, and the people ran together: and they took Paul, and drew him out of the temple: and forthwith the doors were shut.
31 And as they went about to kill him, tidings came unto the chief captain of the band, that all Jerusalem was in an uproar
32 Who immediately took soldiers and centurions, and ran down unto them: and when they saw the chief captain and the soldiers, they left beating of Paul. - Acts 21

It is a wonder the Apostle Paul did not start a civil war as the great Jewish revolt was only a decade away.

* The Romans would retake Jerusalem in AD 71. Despite the upheaval brought by the revolt, and the destruction of the Temple, Jewish life continued to thrive in Judea.
* In 132, the revolt led by Bar Kokhba quickly spread from central Judea across the country, cutting off the Roman garrison in Aelia Capitolina (Jerusalem). The Bar Kokhba revolt greatly influenced the course of Jewish history and the philosophy of the Jewish religion. Despite easing the persecution of Jews following Hadrian's death in 138 CE, the Romans conquered and barred Jews from Jerusalem.

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. - Luke 21:24

During this time the Messianic Christian also seemed to dissipate away in which the apostolic writings seems to be all that is left of it.

Jerusalem is no longer trodden down under the feet of the Gentiles… The Messianic congregation seems to be coming back. My dad dated a Jewish lady who was also Catholic. According to that lady most Jewish Christians she knows are Catholic.

Will the Messianic congregation make a comeback in these last days?

 

[rockytopva]

Apparently God the Father has a book of life as well…

31 And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. - Exodus 32

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@rockytopva

I recently created a thread here on the seven Spirits of God being the seven churches and I briefly touch upon the meaning of the seven churches.

Who are the 7 Spirits of God in Revelation? (Note: I’m not asking because I don’t know)

I do find your list to be a possibility.

 

[.Jeremiah.]

Will the Messianic congregation make a comeback in these last days?

The last days of what?

 

[rockytopva]

@rockytopva

I recently created a thread here on the seven Spirits of God being the seven churches and I briefly touch upon the meaning of the seven churches.

Who are the 7 Spirits of God in Revelation? (Note: I’m not asking because I don’t know)

I do find your list to be a possibility.

Thank you… I don’t think any two can read history and Revelation and see things exactly the same. God bless!

 

[rockytopva]

The last days of what?

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. - Luke 21:24

Is Jerusalem still captive? Does that mean our time as a church is fulfilled?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Messianics are indeed making a comeback. I have a friend who is a Messianic rabbi although doesn't have a congregation at the time but sometimes guest teaches at two different congregations. I think this is good as far as some end times stuff goes.


I do have some qualms though. Lots of Messianics have a very warped view of Church history. And lots of them really believe in the Torah and not just for themselves but they also believe you should be following it too as a gentile. And some of them seem to be reinventing old heresies like Arianism, Modalism etc. denying the Trinity as a man made invention etc.

 

[.Jeremiah.]

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. - Luke 21:24

Is Jerusalem still captive? Does that mean our time as a church is fulfilled?

Sorry, I don’t get any of that.

Probably because I don’t know messianic

 

[Hammster]

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. - Luke 21:24

Is Jerusalem still captive? Does that mean our time as a church is fulfilled?

That’s the last days of the old covenant. So that pretty much makes your premise moot.

 

[TheWhat?]

If by "messianic" you mean the tabernacle of David, I think that is the prophetic outlook. But, when it does happen, it is a very, very big deal, not like any mere church movement. What I'm referring to looks like Christ with the multitude of saints, along with the holy angels, returning to Jerusalem, fulfilling prophecy, gathering the gentiles to Jerusalem, but also rebuilding the tent of David.

 

[TheWhat?]

I should say, it's not until that happens that the Jews could realize the truth about Christ. It's thusly been determined.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

That’s the last days of the old covenant.

Interesting.

 

[rockytopva]

Messianic Judaism is a modern syncretic[1] Christian[2][3] religious movement that incorporates some elements of Judaism and Jewish tradition[4][5][6][7] with Evangelical Christianity. The movement emerged in the 1960s and 1970s from the Hebrew Christian movement[8]and the Baptist[9] organization Jews for Jesus[10][11] founded in 1973 by Conservative Baptist minister Martin Rosen.[12]

Messianic Jews believe that Jesus is the Messiah, and that the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) and New Testament are the authoritative Scriptures.[13][14] Salvation in Messianic Judaism is achieved only through acceptance of Jesus as one's savior,[11][15][16] and Jewish lawdoes not contribute to salvation.[15][16] Belief in Jesus as a messiah and divine is considered by Jews to be the defining distinction between Christianity and Judaism.[17][18][19] Evangelical groups usually accept Messianic Judaism as a form of Christianity.[20] - Messianic Judaism - Wikipedia

 

[rockytopva]

I have often thought that Messianic + Word of Faith as a wonderful combination. Especially as the scripture says…

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. - Romans 1:16-17

 

[The Liturgist]

During this time the Messianic Christian also seemed to dissipate away in which the apostolic writings seems to be all that is left of it.

This isn’t accurate, however. If you look at the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Assyrian Church of the East, the Antiochian Orthodox Church, the Melkite Catholic Church, the Chaldean Catholic Church, the Syro-Malabar and Malankara Catholic Churches, and the Indian Orthodox Church, you will find an extremely large number of Christians who trace their ancestry to converts from Judaism. For example, a Middle Eastern Christian with the last name Khoury is very likely descended from the Kohanim, as Khoury is the Arabic translation of Cohen. One of the most revered saints in the history of the Syriac Orthodox Church is Mar Gregorios Bar Hebraeus, who was a convert from Judaism. And indeed, all of the founders of the denominations listed above, were Jews, especially St. Peter (who for a time lead the Christian community in Antioch while St. James the Just, the brother of our Lord, minded the shop in Jerusalem), St. Thomas the Apostle, and his disciples Addai and Mari, who were numbered among the 70.

In India, among the Nasranis, the St. Thomas Christians of Malankara and the Malabar Coast, who were converted by Thomas the Apostle prior to his martyrdom in 53 AD, there are two major sources of Jewish converts - the Kochin Jews of Kerala, who have since 1948 mostly emigrated to Israel, their most famous member being Vidal Sassoon, who were in India since the period of Greco-Indian commerce initiated by the conquests of Alexander the Great, since at least 200 AD, and then you have an endogamous community of Jewish Christians who are members of the Syriac Orthodox Church and the Indian Orthodox Church, who are descended from survivors of a shipwreck in the region which happened roughly around 400 AD; they have their own parishes in order to keep track of weddings and baptisms in order to preserve the Judeo-Christian heritage of their community, although they are completely Christian (and any Oriental Orthodox Christian can go to those parishes to worship and receive communion).

Speaking of the Oriental Orthodox, the massive African Elephant in the room is the Ethiopian Tewahedo Orthodox Church, which practiced Judaism as its state religion until the conversion of the Emperor in the early fourth century, shortly after the conversions of Edessa, Armenia, Emperor Constantine, and around the same time as the conversion of Georgia. Unlike some of the other states mentioned, however, the Solomonic Dynasty of Emperors in Ethiopia tolerated Jews, who are known as the Beta Israel*, and a large number lived in Ethiopia until the martyrdom of Emperor Haile Selassie** by the Derg communist regime, which, like most communist regimes, became anti-Semitic fairly quickly, hence the majority of the Beta Israel fled to Israel, but even today, there is a small community in Ethiopia. And there are striking similiarities between Ethiopian Orthodox Christianity and the Judaism of the Beta Israel, in terms of worship (the main difference is where the Christians celebrate Holy Communion, the Beta Israel practice animal sacrifice), the enlarged Old Testament canon that includes controversial books regarded elsewhere as apocryphal, like 1 Enoch, and even minor details like the vestments of the clergy (which differ only in that the Jewish vestments replace the Holy Cross with the Star of David).

So if by Messianic Christians, you mean Christians descended from the first generations of Jewish converts, there are millions of them. Indeed the Ethiopian Orthodox Church is the largest Oriental Orthodox church with 40 million members. If we look at the total population of all the other churches I mentioned, I estimate there could be as many as 5 million additional Christians descended from early Jewish converts to Christianity. So that’s 45 million, which makes Jewish Christians larger than most denominations in the United States.

It is also interesting to note that there is a strong possibility that the Ethiopian Orthodox Church is in possession of the Ark of the Covenant and other substantial relics, including the largest surviving fragment of the Holy Cross.

* Beta Israel translates to House of Israel in Ge’ez and Amharic, the ancient liturgical and modern vernacular languages of Ethiopia - compare the Aramaic Bet and the Hebrew Beth.

** In mentioning Haile Selassie, I feel obliged to mention that he did not approve of the Ras Tafari religion which worshipped him as the returned Christ, and directed the Ethiopian Orthodox Church to make every effort to convert them to Christianity, which had some success, as there is a flourishing community of Ethiopian Orthodox in Jamaica, who are obviously not of Jewish ancestry, but their numbers are insignificant compared to the size of the ethnic Ethiopian population of Jewish descent.

 

[The Liturgist]

I have often thought that Messianic + Word of Faith as a wonderful combination. Especially as the scripture says…

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. - Romans 1:16-17

I disagree entirely regarding the Word of Faith movement - their approach to scriptural interpretation is eisegetical allegorization of the New Testament, where even careful Alexandrian typological-allegorical exegesis which is of great help in exploring the Christological meaning of the Old Testament, is problematic, except when addressing prophecies, Revelation in particular.

The Word of Faith movement is also closely linked with the Prosperity Gospel movement, which I regard as extremely destructive. Indeed, I am preparing a post enumerating some of the most problematic parishes in various denominations, and Stephen Furtick makes the list, because his Word of Faith doctrines are exceedingly beyond the norms of the SBC, and I am surprised the SBC has not removed his church from their convention, given the doctrinal disparity between him, and, say, Dr. Albert Mohler.

With regards to Messianic Judaism, I am all for the welcoming of ever more Jews into the Christian Church, and I think the worship patterns of the East Syriac Rite, which features a Bema and Torah / Haftarah readings which match those from the one year Jewish lectionary, and whose main liturgy, that of Addai and Mari, has the structure of a sacred Jewish passover seder, when analyzed closely, would be particularly ideal for Jewish converts.

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

One for Israel is very active within Israel. They are converting Jews and Arabs. I believe they have a seminary in Tel Aviv.

 

[rockytopva]

I believe the original Protestant church was Sardisean. The red Sardis stone was also a stone in Aaron’s breastplate…

I was born again in what I was called a Sardisean Baptist church and grew up in all the training activity. I believe the training was good and in many cases I would leave the retreats with a sense of sanctification. I also believed within my heart that all Catholics were going to hell and speaking of tongues of the devil. I was quite amazed to feel the Holy Spirit speak to me during Pentecostal Holiness revival and have also met good Catholic Christians in my time. Here is the message to the Sardis church in which the Lord also puts in his two cents in the doctrine of eternal security…

1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. - Revelation 3

I do not believe, though, that the doctrine of eternal security all that bad as it gives folks faith in their salvation. I have often wondered, though, if the difference in the Sardisean and the Philadelphian is not that the Sardisean does not believe in backsliding but the Philadelphian practices it, especially as it was said of the Philadelphian, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out.” Which is a big disadvantage to this movement in that they could not keep the revival going.

 

[rockytopva]

I am also a financial supporter of the Bible Broadcasting Network (BBN) and listen in all the time even though I believe they are Sardisean in nature.

 

[Hammster]

I believe the original Protestant church was Sardisean. The red Sardis stone was also a stone in Aaron’s breastplate…

I was born again in what I was called a Sardisean Baptist church and grew up in all the training activity. I believe the training was good and in many cases I would leave the retreats with a sense of sanctification. I also believed within my heart that all Catholics were going to hell and speaking of tongues of the devil. I was quite amazed to feel the Holy Spirit speak to me during Pentecostal Holiness revival and have also met good Catholic Christians in my time. Here is the message to the Sardis church in which the Lord also puts in his two cents in the doctrine of eternal security…

1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. - Revelation 3

I do not believe, though, that the doctrine of eternal security all that bad as it gives folks faith in their salvation. I have often wondered, though, if the difference in the Sardisean and the Philadelphian is not that the Sardisean does not believe in backsliding but the Philadelphian practices it, especially as it was said of the Philadelphian, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out.” Which is a big disadvantage to this movement in that they could not keep the revival going.

There’s no exegetical support for any of this.