Wifely Submission

[quatona]

Yeah, it should work both ways. I was responding to people who worried that husbands might consider their wives inferior.

 

[The_Horses_Boy]

But they sure are catchy if you're used to believing that everything you're told by a certain person is God's own truth, aren't they?

Not in relevenace to what TexasLynn said, but I'd just like to point out that there are those of us that read the Bible to find what the Bible says rather than hearing it. And, if you ask me, what the Bible says on one matter is no less true than what it says on our salvation.

But that isn't "the Biblical model"! Its what some people think is the Biblical model! And their numbers are steadily declining, I think.

Its possible to be a serious disciple of jesus, and be quite egalitarian in one's views/ marraige.

I, for instance, voted, "other" because we both believe adjusting amicably with each other is the most Christ-like of behaviour in marraiges.

You know I would SO love to hear a fresh opinion that is really... well, so fresh and honest! I would just like to hear your Biblical evidence, if you do have any. When we talk of Biblical marriage the Bible is the center of our discussion, obviously, and I am just very interested in hearing what the Bible has to say in your side of the discussion.

 

[Athene]

Not in relevenace to what TexasLynn said, but I'd just like to point out that there are those of us that read the Bible to find what the Bible says rather than hearing it. And, if you ask me, what the Bible says on one matter is no less true than what it says on our salvation.

Do you own slaves? Do you think the practice of slavery is a good thing? Does God want you to own slaves?

 

[The_Horses_Boy]

Do you own slaves? Do you think the practice of slavery is a good thing? Does God want you to own slaves?

No, of course not. Where does the Bible say that I need slaves? Where does it encourage slavery?

 

[christalee4]

Some who espouse a form of philosophy called Christian Reconstructionism believe that this country needs to enforce Dominionsim and Biblical Law, according to Old Testament beliefs:

In other words, laws need to be enforced that includes the following:

death to those who practice homosexuality, witchcraft, adultery, heresy, and those who willfully defy their parents.

Death is meted out through stoning, the sword, hanging, and burning alive.

Christian Reconstructionism is alive and well, and greatly influenced many churches and prominent individuals who truly believe that this country needs to get back to "Christian dominion" to become a great country again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Reconstructionism
http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm
http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v08n1/chrisre1.html
http://www.serve.com/thibodep/cr/cr.htm

A key proponent in dominionism is the resistance to feminism and the idea of women taking more open roles in society.

Stringent gender roles that place women in situations of submission are key to the implementation of dominionism and Christian nationalism in American society.

 

[WhoeverLovesGod01]

I belong to a Baptist church that has a founding principle of seperation of church and state.

 

[rambot]

What about Ye Olde Menstruation Huts?

Or eating shellfish? How evil is that? On par with taking God's name in vein?

 

[The_Horses_Boy]

What about Ye Olde Menstruation Huts?

Or eating shellfish? How evil is that? On par with taking God's name in vein?

I am supposing that this is in response to my post.

Supposing that it is, one needs to try to decipher what law was given by God that applies specifically to Jews or applies to Christians as well. Many of the laws in the OT were specifically for Jews, I can't remember the term for them at the moment.

 

[Konkurrent]

Many of the laws in the OT were specifically for Jews, I can't remember the term for them at the moment.

"Buffet line" is the term you're looking for, I think.


Just pick and choose the rules you like, and if you don't get enough rules on your first plate don't worry - you can always go back for seconds. Furthermore, you can always just not eat whatever rules you decide you don't want and someone will come around and clear the table periodically.

 

[Texas Lynn]

No, of course not. Where does the Bible say that I need slaves? Where does it encourage slavery?

You might not be aware of this, but the patriarchs-people like Abraham and Jacob-were slaveowners. This was considered just the way things were back then and not at all immoral.

It's common knowledge Southern advocates of slavery used the Bible to support their position.

 

[Konkurrent]

It's common knowledge Southern advocates of slavery used the Bible to support their position.

Well to be more accurate, it's common knowledge for people with a thorough education.

 

[christalee4]

Dominionism calls for Patriarchy to be reinstated.

Since Feminism has pretty much revamped our society, in terms of gender roles in the workplace and in the family, those in conservative Christianity wish to try to reinstate Patriarchy as a positive influence in society, in spite of the fact that they need women to maintain the work status in the economy.

Unless you want a situation like "The Handmaid's Tale", a fiction story about a futuristic society in which Christian Patriarchy is installed by force, you CANNOT get the women back into the home ever. The cat is out of the bag, and women indeed do, and men and husbands indeed do, need women to fulfill a vital part of the economy, as well as being in the family.

Those who espouse a return to Patriarchy, as in like Islamic fundamentalism, when women can't go out, or are covered, and can't drive, because they are forced to be at home under threat or fear, espouse a form of societal annihilation or religious Nazism.

 

[Texas Lynn]

"Buffet line" is the term you're looking for, I think.


Just pick and choose the rules you like, and if you don't get enough rules on your first plate don't worry - you can always go back for seconds. Furthermore, you can always just not eat whatever rules you decide you don't want and someone will come around and clear the table periodically.

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to konkurrent again.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Dominionism calls for Patriarchy to be reinstated.

Since Feminism has pretty much revamped our society, in terms of gender roles in the workplace and in the family, those in conservative Christianity wish to try to reinstate Patriarchy as a positive influence in society, in spite of the fact that they need women to maintain the work status in the economy.

Unless you want a situation like "The Handmaid's Tale", a fiction story about a futuristic society in which Christian Patriarchy is installed by force, you CANNOT get the women back into the home ever. The cat is out of the bag, and women indeed do, and men and husbands indeed do, need women to fulfill a vital part of the economy, as well as being in the family.

Those who espouse a return to Patriarchy, as in like Islamic fundamentalism, when women can't go out, or are covered, and can't drive, because they are forced to be at home under threat or fear, espouse a form of societal annihilation or religious Nazism.

And also: "you must spread some reputation around before giving it to Christalee4".

You've done a great job researching the basis behind sexist pronouncements like these.

To add: enough people know this. It ain't gonna happen. This is not Iran.

 

[WhoeverLovesGod01]

I don't want women in veils or to ban them from the work-force.

Doesn't proverbs end by describing a working, enterprising woman?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Doesn't proverbs end by describing a working, enterprising woman?

I think the point to take note of here is that the woman in proverns is doing work for her HOUSEHOLD, by inference, her husband... not for herself. The idea of said woman being enterprising in the same way unwed is quite anathema to the spirit of the OT writings

 

[Athene]

You might not be aware of this, but the patriarchs-people like Abraham and Jacob-were slaveowners. This was considered just the way things were back then and not at all immoral.

It's common knowledge Southern advocates of slavery used the Bible to support their position.

Exactly.

It's only a matter of time before the practice of using the Bible to subjugate women will go the same way as using the Bible to support slavery.

 

[christalee4]

The tiny minority of those who espouse a return to a stricter notion of Biblical patriarchy in gender roles is eclipsed by the reality of how feminism and modernity have shaped traditional values into a softer version of it's former self.

This particular article in this PDF file was written by a conservative theologian on the subject. The author states, as I said before, that the cat is out of the bag, so to speak, and that although many conservative evangelicals and Catholics may talk "complementarian" in their expression of beliefs, however in reality their actions are more egalitarian.

http://www.henryinstitute.org/documents/2005ETS.pdf#search="soft patriarchy"

The author calls for a return to more stringent patriarchy in family roles, and has affirmed that some in the Calvinist/Orthodox Presbyterian and other Protestant churches have been very open and direct about their views on women's roles, although controversial and unpopular. However, even the author concedes that it may be too late for true patriarchy to reassert itself.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

However, even the author concedes that it may be too late for true patriarchy to reassert itself.

Aside from the Bible, is there any evidence that patriarchy serves anyone's interests BESIDES older men?

 

[quatona]

Aside from the Bible, is there any evidence that patriarchy serves anyone's interests BESIDES older men?

The fact that patriarchy has been practiced and survived for ages can be seen as such evidence.
But don´t ask me what those interests have been. I do not even really understand what older men get out of patriarchy.