Wifely Submission

[Konkurrent]

Not to mention all the long term relationships of NONChristians out there that seem to struggle through without reference to the Bible

It's also worth noting that the allegedly infallible "Christian model" doesn't seem to be supported by the data. Check out the percentage of people who are divorced, by religion:

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Jews[/FONT] [FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]30%[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]
[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Born-again Christians[/FONT] [FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]27%[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Other Christians [/FONT] [FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]24%[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Atheists, Agnostics[/FONT] [FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]21%[/FONT]

 

[The_Horses_Boy]

It's also worth noting that the allegedly infallible "Christian model" doesn't seem to be supported by the data. Check out the percentage of people who are divorced, by religion:

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Jews[/FONT] [FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]30%[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]
[/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Born-again Christians[/FONT] [FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]27%[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Other Christians [/FONT] [FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]24%[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Atheists, Agnostics[/FONT] [FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]21%[/FONT]

That doesn't mean anything. I've known Catholics who don't beleive in God - only 10% of Muslims have read the Koran. Just because someone says that they have a certain beleif doesn't mean that they've followed the model of that beleif.

... But are you now saying that a marriage that doesn't have problems is one that isn't divorced?

 

[TheMissus]

Where on earth did you draw that conclusion from?

 

[tocis]

Not to mention all the long term relationships of NONChristians out there that seem to struggle through without reference to the Bible

Quite right. My beloved and me have gone through things already that would have caused a breakup of many relationships... yet we're both heathens who know about the gospel and the rest of the bible but don't care for it (I'm Asatruar, she's Celtic... for all who might want to know).

Of course one might want to say that 3.5 years aren't "long" for him/her. But still...

Just to mention one example out of many, ya know

 

[Konkurrent]

That doesn't mean anything. I've known Catholics who don't beleive in God - only 10% of Muslims have read the Koran. Just because someone says that they have a certain beleif doesn't mean that they've followed the model of that beleif.

... But are you now saying that a marriage that doesn't have problems is one that isn't divorced?

Explain how one can be a Catholic without believing in God.

And no, I'm not saying that any marriage that hasn't resulted in divorce is one that doesn't have problems.

But surely you'd concede that a marriage that has ended in divorce is one that has/had at least one problem.

The fact that more Christians than atheists are divorced would indicate that Christians, as a rule, have more marital problems. Would it not be logical to question whether the "Christian marital model" could be a potential source of or contributor to the problem?

 

[beechy]

Wifely submission doesn't mean that the wife doesn't have an opinion, is second-rate, unimportant, or even that she can't disagree with her husband - it's simply that ultimately, if no agreement can be made, a marriage which is ONE FLESH should not be left with two opposed sentiments.

You left off the end: So if a couple can't come to an agreement, the man always gets the final say.

 

[suzybeezy]

Friendly reminder, if you see a post that violates the rules - please do not respond to it - simply report it and let the moderators handle it

 

[Texas Lynn]

I just realized something... The_Horses_Boy has created a self-fulfilling prophecy.

"No marriages that follow the Biblical model will fail."

This is easily supported regardless of reality by simply saying that any marriage that fails didn't follow that model.


To use an analogy: "If you concentrate hard enough you can become invisible."

If you remain visible, I will simply claim that you didn't concentrate hard enough (since "hard enough" is an unprovable quantity, just like "follows the Biblical model".)

His claim is useless, as it is (most likely unintentionally) set up to be impossible to disprove regardless of any quantity of data that goes against it.

All of these arguments of that type are useless. You've managed to reveal the weakness of this futile line of persuasion, which isn't very persuasive at all.

 

[TheMissus]

Just gotta say: I really, really like suzy's mod hat.

You left off the end: So if a couple can't come to an agreement, the man always gets the final say.

And this is exactly why I'm grateful that my marriage doesn't attempt to follow the Biblical model. I couldn't, and wouldn't, simply give in when we didn't agree. In reality, he's usually the one to give in, or we reach a mutual compromise.

 

[jak]

Quote:
You left off the end: So if a couple can't come to an agreement, the man always gets the final say.

And this is exactly why I'm grateful that my marriage doesn't attempt to follow the Biblical model.

But that isn't "the Biblical model"! Its what some people think is the Biblical model! And their numbers are steadily declining, I think.

Its possible to be a serious disciple of jesus, and be quite egalitarian in one's views/ marraige.

I, for instance, voted, "other" because we both believe adjusting amicably with each other is the most Christ-like of behaviour in marraiges.

 

[Konkurrent]

All of these arguments of that type are useless. You've managed to reveal the weakness of this futile line of persuasion, which isn't very persuasive at all.

But they sure are catchy if you're used to believing that everything you're told by a certain person is God's own truth, aren't they?

 

[WhoeverLovesGod01]

Shouldn't a wife be considered the completing aspect of the husband's life?

 

[kopilo]

If you're of that opinion. I'd say that Jesus is the completing aspect of anyone's life, but each to their own.

 

[WhoeverLovesGod01]

Yes, but I assumed that was obvious. I'm talking about our basic human needs in marriage.

 

[belladonic-haze]

Shouldn't a wife be considered the completing aspect of the husband's life?

Why is it that people think they are not complete without their spouse? I mean, I can be as good or bad as I am now without my spouse. I would be very poor....LOL.....but I am complete with only me.....

I am not there to complete my hubs. We just choose to share our lives together because it's fun and I love him.... but he would be he without me, I am sure of that.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Shouldn't a wife be considered the completing aspect of the husband's life?

What, after he has the car, the house and the high powered job, the wife is the final addittion to the trophy case?

 

[WhoeverLovesGod01]

No, i'm talking about how God has designed us for relationships. Although not everyone should get married, some people will find a distinct unity from being married. Just like God wants his counter-part, (the Church,) so do men want a counter-part, (their wives!) We don't need our spouse to complete "ourselves," (that's not what I said,) but our lives are more complete with each other. Cars, houses and jobs don't fulfill the natural relationship desires that God designed us to have. Wives aren't united to us by victory (as a trophy,) but by love.

 

[belladonic-haze]

Well, I guess I misunderstood. Glad you feel that way

 

[quatona]

Shouldn't a wife be considered the completing aspect of the husband's life?

If so, in the same way a husband should be considered the completing aspect of the wife´s life.
Anyways, I´d leave it to the individual couples to define their relationship.

 

[WhoeverLovesGod01]

Yeah, it should work both ways. I was responding to people who worried that husbands might consider their wives inferior.