Why... ?

[KCDAD]

If you would like a baseline for nonexistence, it is this: a non corporeal essence can not effect in a physical way a corporeal being. How could it possibly do that? F=MA... If there is no mass, there is no force. So we talking about pure energy somehow interacting with us at a cellular level. Like how sunlight alters pigmentation, or causes biochemical processes to occur ion our eyes and brains. But these reactions are not preventable by being baptized or saved... our cells are not altered by God's grace. So how can evil or demons or even angels have any effect on us? How can they manipulate air to make sounds.... that takes mass. How can they wrestle and dislocate our hips (like Jacob).. that takes mass. How can they tempt us or possess us.... can two things occupy the same space at the same time? Or is there (literally) a empty spot in our hearts or brains that is just waiting to be filled with something? (Careful, don't be rude)

 

[KCDAD]

OK ok I'll [play your game... no more on this topic... let's get back to the OP. Why is it logical to think of God outside Biblical characterizations?

Because the Bible (as a whole) is not logical, consistent or accurate according to modern ideas of history, humanity, nature, science and reality.

 

[Tawhano]

Jesus command to drink my blood and eat my body

He said this and gave them bread and wine; it doesn’t take much to reason he wasn’t talking about his real body and blood.

This is a search for the truth.

I don’t get that impression from you.

Look at the reason behind the statements...

I am looking at the reason behind the statements, your reason is purely your own perspective and you refuse to see any other.

Yes, they are flung through the window ("flung" being a adjective that describes flight through a medium, usually air... a simile could be flown, sent into flight, flew...) by inertia, just as you on the ground (if the earth stopped rotating) would be flung through the air at approximately 1000 miles per hour by inertia until, depending upon your height, altitude, mass and propelled path, you would land back on Earth because of gravity.

I already explained this, you are not moving at 1000 miles an hour; the earth is. You are moving at whatever pace and will continue to do so.

That was a week of your semantic acrobatics to get to where you agree with my original statement that the sun could not have stopped in the sky for physical reason, according to God's own laws.

Have we been conversing for a week already?

No semantic acrobatics on my part. I do not agree with your original statement at all. The fact that you think I do tells me that you have no idea what I am saying.

Or would you like to concede that this is also against the laws of God's creative genius and MUST have been the writer's attempt at using a metaphor or a humorous anecdote to impart a spiritual truth.

How many times must I tell you that I am not arguing one way or the other if these things are true or not? This isn’t my premise!!! I am simply demonstrating that your reasoning is fallacious. You discount something because you personally don’t believe in it yet you are unable to prove it is wrong. There is nothing wrong in you believing it isn’t true but where you err is that you wish to force your views as truth on others.

If you would like a baseline for nonexistence, it is this: a non corporeal essence can not effect in a physical way a corporeal being.

You do not have any proof that this is true. I’m not even going to waste my time in asking you for it.

OK ok I'll [play your game... no more on this topic...

It’s not a game; it is pure and simple logic. If you have no proofs that something is not true you can not state that it is untrue and count that statement as logically sound. This is all I have been saying all along.

 

[Tawhano]

KCDAD,
How do you know how to follow Jesus if “the Bible (as a whole) is not logical, consistent or accurate according to modern ideas of history, humanity, nature, science and reality” and is full of errors and contradictions?

 

[KCDAD]

I already explained this, you are not moving at 1000 miles an hour; the earth is. You are moving at whatever pace and will continue to do so.

When the world stops, you continue to move at the speed you were moving before, just like in a car when it stops. In the case of the car it whatever speed the car was traveling, in the case of the world it is 1000 MPH. How can you NOT understand that?

 

[KCDAD]

KCDAD,
How do you know how to follow Jesus if “the Bible (as a whole) is not logical, consistent or accurate according to modern ideas of history, humanity, nature, science and reality” and is full of errors and contradictions?

Gosh... that is the whole point, isn't it? I don't need that book to teach me what is right and wrong, to tell what to do, or to know God. I believe in God. "Bible Christians" believe in a book.

 

[Tawhano]

When the world stops, you continue to move at the speed you were moving before, just like in a car when it stops. In the case of the car it whatever speed the car was traveling, in the case of the world it is 1000 MPH. How can you NOT understand that?

So if the car is traveling at 30 mph and stops you fly at 1030MPH through the windshield? Please explain this if you believe you would be moving at 30MPH through the windshield.

Gosh... that is the whole point, isn't it? I don't need that book to teach me what is right and wrong, to tell what to do, or to know God. I believe in God. "Bible Christians" believe in a book.

I get it now, you discard the book as rubbish and worship a god you make up yourself?

 

[KCDAD]

Tawhano;39710499So if the car is traveling at 30 mph and stops you fly at 1030MPH through the windshield? Please explain this if you believe you would be moving at 30MPH through the windshield.

Of course you would be moving 30 MPH until stopped by the dashboard or windshield. That is fact. As far as going 1030 MPH it would happen only if the Earth stops moving at the same time as the car... are you kidding? An object in motion tends to stay in motion until acted upon by another force. An object at rest tends to stay at rest until a new force is applied to it. <----- just in case you forgot.

I get it now, you discard the book as rubbish and worship a god you make up yourself?

I never said the book was rubbish. That is the problem you fundamentalists have... all or nothing. I find many of the writings in the Bible quite appropriate, truthful and useful. I also find many other writings by men and women (of which the Bible doesn't have any) quite useful as well.

That's right, I am journeying with a God that I have discovered. I do not worship a God that is a compilation of several ancient myths, from Babylon, Canaan, Palestine, Greece and Rome. Interestingly enough, it is the same God that Jesus taught with whom I have a relationship. See, I don't have any conflicts about mercy and vengeance, good and evil, answered prayer, miracles or any of the other problematic aspects of Christianity... I don't have to believe what those people from their cultural and pre-scientific perspectives wrote 3000 years ago. I can experience the real thing in my life now.

 

[CShephard53]

OK ok I'll [play your game... no more on this topic... let's get back to the OP. Why is it logical to think of God outside Biblical characterizations?

Because the Bible (as a whole) is not logical, consistent or accurate according to modern ideas of history, humanity, nature, science and reality.

Right. Evidence? Oh, and I'll make a thread here in CS to discuss contradictions in the Bible, seeing as you haven't.

 

[CShephard53]

Of course you would be moving 30 MPH until stopped by the dashboard or windshield. That is fact. As far as going 1030 MPH it would happen only if the Earth stops moving at the same time as the car... are you kidding? An object in motion tends to stay in motion until acted upon by another force. An object at rest tends to stay at rest until a new force is applied to it. <----- just in case you forgot.



I never said the book was rubbish. That is the problem you fundamentalists have... all or nothing. I find many of the writings in the Bible quite appropriate, truthful and useful. I also find many other writings by men and women (of which the Bible doesn't have any) quite useful as well.

That's right, I am journeying with a God that I have discovered. I do not worship a God that is a compilation of several ancient myths, from Babylon, Canaan, Palestine, Greece and Rome. Interestingly enough, it is the same God that Jesus taught with whom I have a relationship. See, I don't have any conflicts about mercy and vengeance, good and evil, answered prayer, miracles or any of the other problematic aspects of Christianity... I don't have to believe what those people from their cultural and pre-scientific perspectives wrote 3000 years ago. I can experience the real thing in my life now.

How do you know it's the real thing? Because it's logical in your eyes?

 

[KCDAD]

How do you know it's the real thing? Because it's logical in your eyes?

No it is not "logical in my eyes". It is real. It is the truth. Perhaps you understand that there are certain things that you see or hear and you think..."wait a minute. Is that right? That doesn't make sense." Then there are other things that get your attention and it is a V8 moment "Man oh man... now I get it."

 

[CShephard53]

No it is not "logical in my eyes". It is real. It is the truth. Perhaps you understand that there are certain things that you see or hear and you think..."wait a minute. Is that right? That doesn't make sense." Then there are other things that get your attention and it is a V8 moment "Man oh man... now I get it."

Subjective much?

 

[KCDAD]

Subjective much?

You don't need a weatherman to tell which way the wind is blowing

 

[CShephard53]

You don't need a weatherman to tell which way the wind is blowing

You do if you're a pilot.

 

[Tawhano]

Of course you would be moving 30 MPH until stopped by the dashboard or windshield. That is fact. As far as going 1030 MPH it would happen only if the Earth stops moving at the same time as the car... are you kidding? An object in motion tends to stay in motion until acted upon by another force. An object at rest tends to stay at rest until a new force is applied to it. <----- just in case you forgot.

No I haven&#8217;t forgotten, I&#8217;m the one who gave you the link to that because you have not been able to produce one credible source for anything you have falsely stated so far. But please explain to me the reason you are not traveling at 1030mph in the example I gave; why would you travel at that speed only if the world was stopped. Please explain to me what speed you would &#8220;fly&#8221; out the window in a car traveling at 30mph due west that suddenly stops. If the world is rotating at 1000 mph eastward then you would be flying in the opposite direction. Can you explain anything you believe? All you have done so far is simply say things without giving your reasons behind it. All you have offered so far is misinformation, baseless opinions and sarcasms. Do you have anything substantial; anything at all?

I never said the book was rubbish. That is the problem you fundamentalists have... all or nothing.

Ahh&#8230;now you are going to put labels on people. Let me remind you that you have absolutely no idea what I believe as I haven&#8217;t stated anything of my beliefs. Your putting a label on someone without any information on that person is nothing but prejudice.

That's right, I am journeying with a God that I have discovered.

In other words you created a God that you are comfortable with and have absolutely no logical reason to do so and think that makes you right and everyone else wrong. In other words you have nothing.

I do not worship a God that is a compilation of several ancient myths, from Babylon, Canaan, Palestine, Greece and Rome.

We already established that you have absolutely nothing substantial to offer in way of evidence that people who believe in the bible worship a god of ancient myths.

Interestingly enough, it is the same God that Jesus taught with whom I have a relationship.

How do you know what Jesus taught about God?

Lets break it down shall we; you claim anybody who believes in the bible is illogical and wrong. You made the false claim that leprosy was contagious and I posted a source that refuted your claim. You then tried to pass off another false statement as logical truth that leprosy wasn&#8217;t spread by touch and I posted evidence that it was considered one way in which it was spread. You post as fact that demons don&#8217;t exist but admit you have no proof. You post misinformation that &#8220;El in the plural form of Elohim was the name of the Babylonian Supreme God...&#8221; and I asked for a source. You post a source and it had absolutely nothing to do with &#8220;El&#8221; or &#8220;Elohim&#8221;. I have repeatedly asked for any kind of evidence to back your claims and you have provided nothing. All you have posted so far is based on prejudice and misinformation. You have nothing.

 

[KCDAD]

Let's break it down: you believe everything is black and white... all or nothing. You have attributed word sand opinions to me that I haven't even hinted at, for example; " anybody who believes in the bible is illogical and wrong"

Quit trying to be cute and clever and just address the issues.

 

[CShephard53]

Let's break it down: you believe everything is black and white... all or nothing. You have attributed word sand opinions to me that I haven't even hinted at, for example; " anybody who believes in the bible is illogical and wrong"

Quit trying to be cute and clever and just address the issues.

You're telling him to address the issues, when you won't even give solid evidence for your position. How ironic.

 

[Tawhano]

Let's break it down: you believe everything is black and white... all or nothing.

This is based on what? I have not even attempted to disclose to you my beliefs on anything yet. How do you come to this conclusion except through ignorance and prejudice?

You have attributed word sand opinions to me that I haven't even hinted at, for example; " anybody who believes in the bible is illogical and wrong"

Okay, so now you are saying that it isn’t your view that anyone who believes in the bible is illogical and wrong? How do you explain that you have been arguing this very point? You have been arguing that the bible contain things that according to you are illogical have you not? You have been arguing that the bible contain errors correct? You have been arguing that jawsmetroid and myself are wrong without one single shred of evidence have you not? You haven’t provided one valid argument to back your claims. Your entire belief is based on “sand opinions” from what I see in your post. You have nothing.

Quit trying to be cute and clever and just address the issues.

You have failed to answer one single question I have asked. All you have provided is your opinion based on prejudice and misinformation. Where have you even once addressed the issues? You keep trying to shift the focus from your lack of evidence to what I believe when you have no idea what I believe. You hung labels on me based on no information whatsoever about what I believe. I am addressing the issue; the issue is prejudice and ignorance.

 

[KCDAD]

Duh... some of the Bible... some stories, some laws, some histories are illogical and just plain wrong. NOT ALL OF IT. Just like a Bill Clinton speech or an article from The New York Times.
Yeah, you aren't a fundamentalist...
My opinion is what I am sharing. My observations, my evaluations... I am not trying to be a resource center or clearing house for internet websites. You want support and back up for my claims, then investigate them yourself. When I ahve selected one of several sites that agree with me, all I get is :that's only one site and you probably wrote it yourself".

 

[CShephard53]

Duh... some of the Bible... some stories, some laws, some histories are illogical and just plain wrong. NOT ALL OF IT. Just like a Bill Clinton speech or an article from The New York Times.
Yeah, you aren't a fundamentalist...
My opinion is what I am sharing. My observations, my evaluations... I am not trying to be a resource center or clearing house for internet websites. You want support and back up for my claims, then investigate them yourself. When I ahve selected one of several sites that agree with me, all I get is :that's only one site and you probably wrote it yourself".

In other words, you're refusing to provide evidence, trying to put the burden on us to 'find out the truth', as you say. If you don't have anything meaningful and on topic to contribute to this thread, please do those who would like to seriously discuss the topic a favor and leave. I'm sick of this back and forth junk that gets us nowhere.