• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Why Would We Need to Obey God's Laws?

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,818
✟368,235.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Obey or not obey. It seems as though this is the dividing question of many Christians today. For some, the keeping of the law was a burden we bore before Christ saved us but the fact is, we didn't keep the law then either! Why would God want people to obey His commandments in the first place if He was going to do away with them? What purpose do they have? If you knew the future that God has planned for those who love Him you might just understand it better.
When we are resurrected we are going to be like Christ is NOW. What is He like now? He is the all powerful, eternal Son of the Creator God. We are to be heirs WITH Him of all that God has given Him, rulers with Him on His throne. The power of being a child of God is boundless! God will not give this gift to anyone who would refuse to obey Him, think of the damage an eternal being with that kind of power could do! Look at what Satan did, and He's not even close to what we're going to be.
The Laws of God define what sin is, they are our instructors on what to do and what not to do. We must develop Godly character through obedience from our heart! Out of love for God, out of respect for Him. Christ makes our perfection possible by literally LIVING in us, using our bodies and minds to produce works of righteousness, growing in grace, which is undeserved forgiveness when we fall short. Before we had Christ living in us, any obedience we may have mustered was useless. After Christ is living in us all obedience is Christ's spirit doing it which makes it perfect.
If we despise the laws of God and refuse to keep His commands then the Spirit of Christ is not in us.
Romans 8:7-9 because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s Law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.
You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ

You can say that submitting to God is not required all you want but God says those who are hostile to Him refuse to submit to His Law and they are NOT CHRIST'S. HE said if we have His Spirit we will submit, why? Because we understand the reason God wants us to, we understand the enormous responsibility we are going to be given and ONLY those who have learned to LOVE His laws and allowed them to be written on their hearts will be in the Kingdom of God. But know that it cannot be done without the Spirit of Christ living in us. That Spirit is given as a GIFT, it can never be earned. Once we have it we MUST use it. How do we use it? By obeying.
It seems to me and I may be wrong that you are playing the Law against grace, which should not be the case for a New Covenant Christian. Because the Law is not for us in the way that the law was intended. The law's intention after Christ is that the law is the schoolmaster that shows us the holiness of God, which is that if someone has broken one part of the law, one has broken all of the law. In this way, we all know we are sinners.

So obedience is not about the law although the law shows us what is righteous and holy in God's sight. Obedience is about us picking up our cross and following Christ for whom we now belong as we have been purchased by His blood and we have changed ownership. We are now sons and daughters of God, adopted by God into His family and called to be spiritual and righteous like His Son.
 
Upvote 0

danstribe

Active Member
Mar 30, 2013
349
167
✟31,705.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Obedience to Jesus is not identical to following the Jewish law. Do you think a Christian can live a life of persistent disobedience to Jesus without repentance and still be saved?
Repentance is a life long ordeal, persistent disobedience is the danger of sinning and no sacrifice being left but only a dread of what is to come. Even Jesus exposed the fallacy of what the Jews had done to the law, they added so many stipulations trying to cover every minuscule infraction that they perceived to the point that they lost the true meaning. They considered Him to be a law breaker, but it was their added laws that He did not obey, such as healing on the sabbath, or picking corn to eat on the sabbath. These two examples were NEVER in disobedience to God's law
 
Upvote 0

danstribe

Active Member
Mar 30, 2013
349
167
✟31,705.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It seems to me and I may be wrong that you are playing the Law against grace, which should not be the case for a New Covenant Christian. Because the Law is not for us in the way that the law was intended. The law's intention after Christ is that the law is the schoolmaster that shows us the holiness of God, which is that if someone has broken one part of the law, one has broken all of the law. In this way, we all know we are sinners.

So obedience is not about the law although the law shows us what is righteous and holy in God's sight. Obedience is about us picking up our cross and following Christ for whom we now belong as we have been purchased by His blood and we have changed ownership. We are now sons and daughters of God, adopted by God into His family and called to be spiritual and righteous like His Son.
Grace is the continued forgiveness for disobedience to the law of God. If we are to take up our cross and follow Christ then we are to walk as He walked and He walked a life in complete obedience to the Father. After Christ, we no longer keep the law because it is written on paper, we keep it because it is written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit but is the SAME law, in fact is has become even more than we realized when we just read the words, now we live them, or should I say again, Christ lives them through us. The law's intention is to point out what is sin and what isn't and now we have the Spirit of Christ in us to point to even the deeper requirements of the law, which are spiritual.
 
Upvote 0

danstribe

Active Member
Mar 30, 2013
349
167
✟31,705.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I think you misunderstand the opposing argument. The new birth is the law of Christ. Ezekiel said that He would circumcise our hearts of stone and write his laws upon our hearts. Paul said that we are living epistles known and read by all men. When we know him, as I said in my second comment, we love him so we keep his commandments.

If you consider the majority of Christians who know Christ through the new birth, they do obey the commandments because their hearts have been changed by the Spirit. To argue that we must keep the 10 commandments is an argument with no one in a practical sense. The argument leads people to think the case is being made that we have to keep the commandments to justify our selves, which is not so, and every born again believer knows that is not so. So is the argument frequently being made? When I listen to people making that argument, I sense self righteousness and it is abhorrent to the Spirit of Christ within me.

It also makes me think that those people really don't know Jesus. Of if they have the new birth they misunderstand Jesus and what his love has done for the Church as well as all mankind.
Just to reiterate concerning righteousness, it is not self, we can take no credit for keeping the law because it is Christ in us who is doing the keeping. However, we must take responsibility for the sins we commit. I also said that no amount of keeping the commandments can justify us, only Christ can justify us but AFTER we are justified we are to keep the commandments of God, as the bible says, not me but the word of God says
Romans 8:7-9 the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s Law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.
You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
If we refuse to submit to God's Law then we do not have the Spirit of Christ living in us. As Christians we are to submit to the Law because Christ submitted and we are to allow Christ to live through us. Those who are "born again" will not sin, they cannot sin. We are still flesh, we are growing in the womb of our mother, the church, and we will be finally "born again" at the resurrection, when Christ returns and our bodies will be changed and we will be like He is now. If we have the Spirit of Christ LIVING in us, perfecting our minds through obedience, bringing our bodies into subjection then we will be raised perfect. But in our minds by the Spirit we consider our bodies to be dead because of sin. We are not perfect completely, yet. We are BEING perfected but we should live as though we already are...perfect.
 
Upvote 0

“Paisios”

Sinner
Site Supporter
Aug 8, 2014
2,876
4,623
57
✟641,638.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Obedience to Jesus is not identical to following the Jewish law. Do you think a Christian can live a life of persistent disobedience to Jesus without repentance and still be saved?
No, repentance and obedience are the measure and demonstration of salvation, if I read it correctly. Not an accounting (as in you need to rack up so many points before you're in the club), but a changed heart nad character which is shown through an obedience to Him.

(But as always, when it comes to these weightier questions, I will end with "what do I know?"...I'm always open to correction.)
 
  • Agree
Reactions: danstribe
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,818
✟368,235.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Repentance is a life long ordeal, persistent disobedience is the danger of sinning and no sacrifice being left but only a dread of what is to come. Even Jesus exposed the fallacy of what the Jews had done to the law, they added so many stipulations trying to cover every minuscule infraction that they perceived to the point that they lost the true meaning. They considered Him to be a law breaker, but it was their added laws that He did not obey, such as healing on the sabbath, or picking corn to eat on the sabbath. These two examples were NEVER in disobedience to God's law
You misunderstand those verses about their no longer being a sacrifice for sin. This is not for or about New Covenant Christians, this verse pertains to the Jewish believers in Christ who were coming from the Old Covenant into the New Covenant.

Under the Old Covenant, the Levitical priesthood made sacrifices for sin. Temporary atonement for sin UNTIL the Messiah came. What they are being told is that there is no longer temporary atonement for sin through the Levitical priesthood and that any and ALL atonement for sin is now through Christ.

I have included much of the chapter that contains this verse so you can see the context. This is often a verse that is misunderstood.

Hebrews 10:1-25

1For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. 2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? 3But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. 4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
“SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED,
BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME;

6IN WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE TAKEN NO PLEASURE.

7“THEN I SAID, ‘BEHOLD, I HAVE COME
(IN THE SCROLL OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME)
TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.’”

8After saying above, “SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, NOR HAVE YOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9then He said, “BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, 13waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. 14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,

16“THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,”
He then says,

17“AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.”

18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.



A New and Living Way

19Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; 24and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,818
✟368,235.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
No, repentance and obedience are the measure and demonstration of salvation, if I read it correctly. Not an accounting (as in you need to rack up so many points before you're in the club), but a changed heart nad character which is shown through an obedience to Him.

(But as always, when it comes to these weightier questions, I will end with "what do I know?"...I'm always open to correction.)
Yup.

Because all of our good deeds are Christ in us. We can not take our good deeds as our own.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: “Paisios”
Upvote 0

danstribe

Active Member
Mar 30, 2013
349
167
✟31,705.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You misunderstand those verses about their no longer being a sacrifice for sin. This is not for or about New Covenant Christians, this verse pertains to the Jewish believers in Christ who were coming from the Old Covenant into the New Covenant.

Under the Old Covenant, the Levitical priesthood made sacrifices for sin. Temporary atonement for sin UNTIL the Messiah came. What they are being told is that there is no longer temporary atonement for sin through the Levitical priesthood and that any and ALL atonement for sin is now through Christ.

I have included much of the chapter that contains this verse so you can see the context. This is often a verse that is misunderstood.

Hebrews 10:1-25

1For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. 2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? 3But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. 4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
“SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED,
BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME;

6IN WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE TAKEN NO PLEASURE.

7“THEN I SAID, ‘BEHOLD, I HAVE COME
(IN THE SCROLL OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME)
TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.’”

8After saying above, “SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, NOR HAVE YOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9then He said, “BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, 13waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. 14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,

16“THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,”
He then says,

17“AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.”

18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.



A New and Living Way

19Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; 24and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.
Thank you for your post but You have used the wrong scriptures in reference to what I said about no sacrifice for sins remains. You see, I do understand and it is NOT referring to Jewish converts but to ALL Christians. I will post the scripture for you to understand:

Hebrews 10:26-29 "If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and raging fire that will consume all adversaries. Anyone who rejected the Law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think one deserves to be punished who has trampled on the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and insulted the Spirit of grace?"

How is it that we would trample on the Son of God? "If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth"
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,627
67
✟86,135.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Thank you for your post but You have used the wrong scriptures in reference to what I said about no sacrifice for sins remains. You see, I do understand and it is NOT referring to Jewish converts but to ALL Christians. I will post the scripture for you to understand:

Hebrews 10:26-29 "If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and raging fire that will consume all adversaries. Anyone who rejected the Law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think one deserves to be punished who has trampled on the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and insulted the Spirit of grace?"

How is it that we would trample on the Son of God? "If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth"
Of course, you would have to receive knowledge of the truth. Those who don't have that truth are not referred to in heb10:26

And the truth is:

Christ is the end if the law unto righteousness for everyone who believeth
Rom10:4

Many who go to church don't believe it.
They in reality believe they are justified by observing the law
 
Upvote 0

AlexDTX

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 13, 2015
4,191
2,817
✟351,434.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
When I read posts by people like you I have to scratch my head. Anyone who loves Christ obeys Christ. Who are you talking to? This forum is filled with people that love Jesus and obey him. And you can't expect anyone who is lost to obey the law of Moses because no one could.

However, we must take responsibility for the sins we commit. I also said that no amount of keeping the commandments can justify us, only Christ can justify us but AFTER we are justified we are to keep the commandments of God

Again, the tone of your writing seems to imply that everyone is struggling with massive temptations and are struggling to be obedient to Christ. It is true that everyone has different trials and temptations, but if they are in Christ they are resisting the temptations. The truth be told, however, is when you are settled in your love for Christ, the things that tempted us before regeneration no longer tempt us because we have no desire for them anymore. After walking in Christ for a while you realize that all acts contrary to his commands bring death and destruction into your life. So the desire for that sin is outweighed by the knowledge of the destructive consequences so you don't want it anymore. Food that tastes good but gives me a belly ache I stop eating.


As Christians we are to submit to the Law because Christ submitted and we are to allow Christ to live through us. Those who are "born again" will not sin, they cannot sin. We are still flesh, we are growing in the womb of our mother, the church, and we will be finally "born again" at the resurrection, when Christ returns and our bodies will be changed and we will be like He is now.

If we who are born again will not sin, and can not sin, why are you harping on the subject? It is almost as though you have substituted this "cause" for the call of Christ. Christ is not calling saints to preach against the saints when the saints are already following Him. Take your cause to the lost. They are the ones who need to hear it.
 
Upvote 0

danstribe

Active Member
Mar 30, 2013
349
167
✟31,705.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Of course, you would have to receive knowledge of the truth. Those who don't have that truth are not referred to in heb10:26

And the truth is:

Christ is the end if the law unto righteousness for everyone who believeth
Rom10:4

Many who go to church don't believe it.
They in reality believe they are justified by observing the law
Are you saying that Christ ended the Law? The truth is that Christ is the goal of the law, His life is the result of keeping the law perfectly, it could not have been kept better. I say this because the meaning of the Greek word that is translated as "end" is this:
5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.
That is the truth, and that is why Christ said DO NOT think that I have come to do away with the law, I have come to fulfill it, obey it all the way to the very end leaving nothing out. That is what it means in Rom 10:4 and not that the law is ended.
Paul is referring to ALL Christians in Hebrews 10:26 and includes himself.
Who doesn't have the truth? Non believers, those who are not Christian do not have the truth. Those who ARE Christian have received knowledge of the truth from God and IF Christians deliberately go on sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth then no sacrifice remains. Those are God's inspired words.
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,627
67
✟86,135.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Are you saying that Christ ended the Law? The truth is that Christ is the goal of the law, His life is the result of keeping the law perfectly, it could not have been kept better. I say this because the meaning of the Greek word that is translated as "end" is this:
5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.
That is the truth, and that is why Christ said DO NOT think that I have come to do away with the law, I have come to fulfill it, obey it all the way to the very end leaving nothing out. That is what it means in Rom 10:4 and not that the law is ended.
Paul is referring to ALL Christians in Hebrews 10:26 and includes himself.
Who doesn't have the truth? Non believers, those who are not Christian do not have the truth. Those who ARE Christian have received knowledge of the truth from God and IF Christians deliberately go on sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth then no sacrifice remains. Those are God's inspired words.
No Christ is not the end of the law!!
He is the end of the law of righteousness unto everyone who believeth!!!

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin
Rom3:20

That's Pauls core message
 
  • Agree
Reactions: danstribe
Upvote 0

danstribe

Active Member
Mar 30, 2013
349
167
✟31,705.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
When I read posts by people like you I have to scratch my head. Anyone who loves Christ obeys Christ. Who are you talking to? This forum is filled with people that love Jesus and obey him. And you can't expect anyone who is lost to obey the law of Moses because no one could.



Again, the tone of your writing seems to imply that everyone is struggling with massive temptations and are struggling to be obedient to Christ. It is true that everyone has different trials and temptations, but if they are in Christ they are resisting the temptations. The truth be told, however, is when you are settled in your love for Christ, the things that tempted us before regeneration no longer tempt us because we have no desire for them anymore. After walking in Christ for a while you realize that all acts contrary to his commands bring death and destruction into your life. So the desire for that sin is outweighed by the knowledge of the destructive consequences so you don't want it anymore. Food that tastes good but gives me a belly ache I stop eating.

If we who are born again will not sin, and can not sin, why are you harping on the subject? It is almost as though you have substituted this "cause" for the call of Christ. Christ is not calling saints to preach against the saints when the saints are already following Him. Take your cause to the lost. They are the ones who need to hear it.
WE do struggle with massive temptations, if we didn't then we would be liars and the truth would not be in us. If you are to the point where you no longer sin then I am happy for you, you are perfected. I'm still struggling, bearing my cross, overcoming by the power of Christ in me but I am not made perfect yet. My perfection will come at the resurrection. But I'm glad that you are.
The reason for talking about this to those who are called Christian but think that they have no need to stop sinning, or that they don't sin at all, is because that mindset is a very dangerous thing to have especially at this point in time.
We are not yet born again, we have a seed of the Holy Spirit that will bring us through the resurrection at which time we will be born again. I am very sorry that you don't understand but that is between you and God. You will see one day.
 
Upvote 0

danstribe

Active Member
Mar 30, 2013
349
167
✟31,705.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No Christ is not the end of the law!!
He is the end of the law of righteousness unto everyone who believeth!!!

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin
Rom3:20

That's Pauls core message
What are you saying? That the law of righteousness was ended by Christ? Every translation I've read doesn't say "He is the end of the law OF righteousness" but that He is the end result of the law FOR righteousness to everyone who believes. I'm sorry if I'm reading what you say wrong, there are so many ways that the scripture is sort of moved around by people, I just wanted to be sure I understand what you're saying.
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,627
67
✟86,135.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
What are you saying? That the law of righteousness was ended by Christ? Every translation I've read doesn't say "He is the end of the law OF righteousness" but that He is the end result of the law FOR righteousness to everyone who believes. I'm sorry if I'm reading what you say wrong, there are so many ways that the scripture is sort of moved around by people, I just wanted to be sure I understand what you're saying.
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law Christ died for nothing
Gal2:21

But now a righteousness apart from law has been made known to which the law and the prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe
Rom3:21&22

For we maintain a man is justified/ righteous by faith apart from observing the law
Rom3:28

Not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law but that which is by faith in Christ. The righteousness that comes from God and is by faith
Phil3:9

I can give you a lot more if needed
 
  • Agree
Reactions: danstribe
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,946
11,096
okie
✟222,536.00
Faith
Anabaptist
I would say that I have fear of the Lord, but that it is a very different fear even in quality than that of hell, and it is a fear that draws me closer to Him, whereas fear of hell would, quite rightly push me away from hell (which is a good thing, of course)...but the former is a much greater thing and more greatly to be desired than the latter.

(But then, what do I know? I stand open to correction, and am finding this discussion interesting.)
Someone last year pointed out a 'fear' (not a bad fear)
that anyone should have IN THE PRESENCE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS(YHWH'S PRESENCE),

like for human example
a spotless rolls royce inside and out cleaming and sparkling clean without a spot anywhere on it ,

how 'nervous'/ 'afraid' ** a servant would be to , under orders, get in and drive it around and put it in the garage, or retrieve it from the garage to bring around front for the lord of the manor.....

** CAREFUL might be a better description - how CAREFUL someone would be
not to track dirt, or smudge paint/ oil/ grease/ or get hair or grass or ketchup or mustard ANYWHERE in or on or around the spotless vehicle ....

So how much more also would[IS] any child of YHWH be AWEstruck with WONDER and pure and full JOY in perfect humbleness , made blameless by the blood of Jesus and YHWH's WORD, perfect and holy and righteous
standing in His Presence in the heavenlies, at His Throne - DAILY -
 
Upvote 0

danstribe

Active Member
Mar 30, 2013
349
167
✟31,705.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law Christ died for nothing
Gal2:21

But now a righteousness apart from law has been made known to which the law and the prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe
Rom3:21&22

For we maintain a man is justified/ righteous by faith apart from observing the law
Rom3:28

Not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law but that which is by faith in Christ. The righteousness that comes from God and is by faith
Phil3:9

I can give you a lot more if needed
Lol thank you. I agree, our righteousness is from God, given to us by belief in His Son, that He justified us apart from the law. We were never justified by keeping the law and even our observance of the law is not enough to make us righteous, we need the righteousness that is from God, given through faith in His Son, knowing that He lives in us and it is HIS righteousness in us that now keeps the law through our bodies.
 
Upvote 0

stuart lawrence

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2015
10,527
1,627
67
✟86,135.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Lol thank you. I agree, our righteousness is from God, given to us by belief in His Son, that He justified us apart from the law. We were never justified by keeping the law and even our observance of the law is not enough to make us righteous, we need the righteousness that is from God, given through faith in His Son, knowing that He lives in us and it is HIS righteousness in us that now keeps the law through our bodies.
I'm glad you agree for:

All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the book of the law. Clearly no one is justified before God by observing the law, for the righteous shall live by faith
Gal3:10&11

Why are you cursed if you rely on observing the law to be righteous?

For whoever keeps the whole law yet stumbles at JUST ONE POINT is guilty of breaking all of it
James 2:10

Only one pass mark to be righteous under the law, perfection. 100 percent perfect obedience, no slip ups.
Hence, you are cursed if you rely on observing the law to be righteous, for you cannot attain to the pass mark set
 
  • Agree
Reactions: danstribe
Upvote 0

danstribe

Active Member
Mar 30, 2013
349
167
✟31,705.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Someone last year pointed out a 'fear' (not a bad fear)
that anyone should have IN THE PRESENCE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS(YHWH'S PRESENCE),

like for human example
a spotless rolls royce inside and out cleaming and sparkling clean without a spot anywhere on it ,

how 'nervous'/ 'afraid' ** a servant would be to , under orders, get in and drive it around and put it in the garage, or retrieve it from the garage to bring around front for the lord of the manor.....

** CAREFUL might be a better description - how CAREFUL someone would be
not to track dirt, or smudge paint/ oil/ grease/ or get hair or grass or ketchup or mustard ANYWHERE in or on or around the spotless vehicle ....

So how much more also would[IS] any child of YHWH be AWEstruck with WONDER and pure and full JOY in perfect humbleness , made blameless by the blood of Jesus and YHWH's WORD, perfect and holy and righteous
standing in His Presence in the heavenlies, at His Throne - DAILY -
I like that analogy! I always thought of my own dad when I was young, I feared His disapproval because I loved him. I also feared getting in trouble if I did something bad. Even the thought of interrupting or talking back to him never entered my mind! And when he did discipline me after the spanking was over, it was over and we went fishing!
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,946
11,096
okie
✟222,536.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Lol thank you. I agree, our righteousness is from God, given to us by belief in His Son, that He justified us apart from the law. We were never justified by keeping the law and even our observance of the law is not enough to make us righteous, we need the righteousness that is from God, given through faith in His Son, knowing that He lives in us and it is HIS righteousness in us that now keeps the law through our bodies.
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^ doesn't [necessarily/ appear to] line up
with what YHWH says in ROMANS about who is justified.

About 651,000 results (1.05 seconds)
Search Results
Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just ... - Bible Hub
biblehub.com/romans/2-13.htm
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Weymouth New Testament It is not those that merely hear the Law ...

Romans 2:13 KJV: (For not the hearers of the law are just before God ...
biblehub.com/kjv/romans/2-13.htm
For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified. Young's Literal Translation for not the hearers of the law ...

Romans 2:13 KJV - (For not the hearers of the law are - Bible Gateway
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 2:13 - King James Version
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
 
Upvote 0