Why Would We Need to Obey God's Laws?

[PropheticTimes]

There is a difference between the law of Moses and the law Christ. Moses said thou shalt not commit adultery. Christ said that if you look upon a woman with lust in your heart, you have committed adultery. The law of Moses is a shadow of the greater law of Christ. If we use the law of Moses as our guide, we will fall short of the law of Christ. Jesus said all the law can be summed up in these two things: love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as your self. Paul said if you love you have fulfilled the law. The Mosaic law is inadequate to cover all that the love of Christ will cover. The law of Moses says to hate your enemies but the law of Christ says to love your enemies. The only way we can follow and fulfill the law of Christ is to be led by the Spirit. Moses only gives a skeletal outline. Those who argue that we follow the law of Moses are misleading people away from following the law of Christ.

That is what I am trying to clarify. When speaking of obeying the law, is that referring to the law of Moses?

 

[stuart lawrence]

That is what I am trying to clarify. When speaking of obeying the law, is that referring to the law of Moses?

It's a much harder law to obey for the Christian than was the law of Moses, as has been pointed out with examples.
And of course, no one could obey the easier law of Moses could they. What's going on?

 

[PropheticTimes]

It's a much harder law to obey for the Christian than was the law of Moses, as has been pointed out with examples.
And of course, no one could obey the easier law of Moses could they. What's going on?

My confusion comes from what has been named the Hebrew Roots Movement. It is said that Christians must follow the law of Moses, including feast days, or God considers you "lawless" and therefore you will be tied in with "the man of lawlessness".

I am an avid (daily) reader of Scripture and have been for years. I study it daily. This subject has had me a little off center for a while now.

 

[stuart lawrence]

My confusion comes from what has been named the Hebrew Roots Movement. It is said that Christians must follow the law of Moses, including feast days, or God considers you "lawless" and therefore you will be tied in with "the man of lawlessness".

I am an avid (daily) reader of Scripture and have been for years. I study it daily. This subject has had me a little off center for a while now.

If Christians must obey the law of Moses, including feast days. At the council of Jerusalem in Acts ch15, the leaders of the Christian church gave gentile converts a licence to sin

 

[jimmyjimmy]

My confusion comes from what has been named the Hebrew Roots Movement. It is said that Christians must follow the law of Moses, including feast days, or God considers you "lawless" and therefore you will be tied in with "the man of lawlessness".

I am an avid (daily) reader of Scripture and have been for years. I study it daily. This subject has had me a little off center for a while now.

Paul said about those who disturbed the faith of the Galatian church, their condemnation is just.

 

[PropheticTimes]

If Christians must obey the law of Moses, including feast days, at the council of Jerusalem in Acts ch15, the leaders of the Christian church gave gentile converts a licence to sin

Paul said about those who disturbed the faith of the Galatians church, their condemnation is just.

Thank you, both of you, I appreciate the further clarification. God bless you.

 

[danstribe]

The apostle Paul explained the purpose of the law for us.
Romans 3:19-20

Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. (ESV)

That's what I said. We are justified by the blood of Christ, no amount of law keeping could ever justify us. Now that we are justified, if we truly have been given the Spirit of Christ to live in us, we will yield our bodies to obedience allowing the perfect law keeper to live through our actions as He lived on earth. WE are slaves to one of two things, either to obedience which leads to life or to sin, which the law defines, which leads to death. There are only two roads! One is obedience with the Spirit of Christ living in us, or one of disobedience, which does not have the Spirit of Christ and it doesn't want to obey and cannot understand it.

 

[stuart lawrence]

That's what I said. We are justified by the blood of Christ, no amount of law keeping could ever justify us. Now that we are justified, if we truly have been given the Spirit of Christ to live in us, we will yield our bodies to obedience allowing the perfect law keeper to live through our actions as He lived on earth. WE are slaves to one of two things, either to obedience which leads to life or to sin, which the law defines, which leads to death. There are only two roads! One is obedience with the Spirit of Christ living in us, or one of disobedience, which does not have the Spirit of Christ and it doesn't want to obey and cannot understand it.

The true Christian in their heart wants to live as God desires them to, for that is where his laws have been placed

 

[AlexDTX]

That is what I am trying to clarify. When speaking of obeying the law, is that referring to the law of Moses?

If we obey the law of Christ we are also obeying the law of Moses. John said, because he first loved us we love him, and Jesus said that if we love him we will obey his commandments. We do not obey the law of Christ because we are trying to earn our salvation or his favor. We obey the law of Christ because we love Christ.

 

[danstribe]

There is a difference between the law of Moses and the law Christ. Moses said thou shalt not commit adultery. Christ said that if you look upon a woman with lust in your heart, you have committed adultery. The law of Moses is a shadow of the greater law of Christ. If we use the law of Moses as our guide, we will fall short of the law of Christ. Jesus said all the law can be summed up in these two things: love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as your self. Paul said if you love you have fulfilled the law. The Mosaic law is inadequate to cover all that the love of Christ will cover. The law of Moses says to hate your enemies but the law of Christ says to love your enemies. The only way we can follow and fulfill the law of Christ is to be led by the Spirit. Moses only gives a skeletal outline. Those who argue that we follow the law of Moses are misleading people away from following the law of Christ.

Christ explained the command to not commit adultery to become even more binding, not just on our actions but on our thoughts as well. The expansion of the law and the understanding and the ability to keep it come from having the Spirit of God living in us. Before, the people couldn't even keep the letter let alone the deeper requirements but now that Christ has come we are given the help we need to keep it fully and completely. The Ten commandments are the Laws of God, He wrote them on the tablets of stone and gave them to Moses to give to the people. If the Spirit of God does not dwell in a person they will be hostile to the Law of God because only by the Spirit can it be understood and only by the Spirit can it be kept. Those who argue that we are no longer required to keep the ten commandments are misleading people away from following Christ for He kept the ten commandments, not only to the letter but fully and completely by the Spirit, in His mind and heart, in His thoughts He never broke a single one. If we follow Christ we are to live as He lived and walk as He walked.

 

[danstribe]

Dear danstribe. Why would we need to obey God`s Law? God is Love, and God wants loving sons and daughters. Jesus helped us to find the right way to love and obey. Matthew 22: 35-40: tells us: Love God with all thy hearts, with all thy souls and with all thy minds. The second Commandment is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself. Verse 40 tells us: On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.
The Bible, which is God`s Word to us, tells us: Give up all selfish desires, and start Loving God. He has made us in His image, and He deserves our love and thanks. Jesus our Saviour died for us, that we might live as God wants us to live: LOVE GOD AND LOVE EACH OTHER. Give up our selfish wishes and wants, and start loving and caring, as God wants us to. In Matthew 7: 7-10 we are told: Ask and you shall receive, ask God for Love and Joy, then thank God and share all with our neighbour. (all around us) no more selfish talk and unloving words. I say this with love, danstribe. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

I believe you said the same things I did! Jesus did die for us, to reconcile us to the Father and it is thru His resurrection to eternal life that we are able to live as He lived and as He continues to live daily in each of us that have the gift of His Holy Spirit. Thank you Emmy and God bless you!

 

[stuart lawrence]

Christ explained the command to not commit adultery to become even more binding, not just on our actions but on our thoughts as well. The expansion of the law and the understanding and the ability to keep it come from having the Spirit of God living in us. Before, the people couldn't even keep the letter let alone the deeper requirements but now that Christ has come we are given the help we need to keep it fully and completely. The Ten commandments are the Laws of God, He wrote them on the tablets of stone and gave them to Moses to give to the people. If the Spirit of God does not dwell in a person they will be hostile to the Law of God because only by the Spirit can it be understood and only by the Spirit can it be kept. Those who argue that we are no longer required to keep the ten commandments are misleading people away from following Christ for He kept the ten commandments, not only to the letter but fully and completely by the Spirit, in His mind and heart, in His thoughts He never broke a single one. If we follow Christ we are to live as He lived and walk as He walked.

Can you obey the TC to the letter? And also the second greatest commandment to the letter?
Paul said the TC were the letter that kills/ the ministration of death and condemnation.
In order to follow the TC, and second greatest comnandments to the letter.
You can have no impure thoughts, not look at a woman with lust in your eye( Christ's update) you must never have an unkind thought about anyone, nor say an unkind word. You must love all those you come into contact with, including those who hate, malign, persecute and mistreat you. And you must do it all faultlessly without one slip

 

[danstribe]

Like Skywriting said.....Yeshua clarified the law by honing it down to one statement: "Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart mind soul and strength...and love others as yourself" this is the whole of the law.
THIS is the law we must follow.

It is so simple yet who can do it?

WE can do it IF we have the Spirit of Christ living in us! With God, and with His Son, ALL things are possible! Just remember, when we keep the commandments, when we obey the law of God it isn't we (or should it be us?) who are doing it, it is Christ Himself who is doing it! This is the ONLY reason why our obedience is acceptable to the Father, Christ IN us is truly the one keeping the righteous requirements of the eternal, holy law of the Father! We are submitting our bodies to Christ for Him to use in obedience and good works. That is simple to the minds of those who have Christ living in them! It's wonderful!

 

[Robert76]

Obey or not obey. It seems as though this is the dividing question of many Christians today. For some, the keeping of the law was a burden we bore before Christ saved us but the fact is, we didn't keep the law then either! Why would God want people to obey His commandments in the first place if He was going to do away with them? What purpose do they have? If you knew the future that God has planned for those who love Him you might just understand it better.
When we are resurrected we are going to be like Christ is NOW. What is He like now? He is the all powerful, eternal Son of the Creator God. We are to be heirs WITH Him of all that God has given Him, rulers with Him on His throne. The power of being a child of God is boundless! God will not give this gift to anyone who would refuse to obey Him, think of the damage an eternal being with that kind of power could do! Look at what Satan did, and He's not even close to what we're going to be.
The Laws of God define what sin is, they are our instructors on what to do and what not to do. We must develop Godly character through obedience from our heart! Out of love for God, out of respect for Him. Christ makes our perfection possible by literally LIVING in us, using our bodies and minds to produce works of righteousness, growing in grace, which is undeserved forgiveness when we fall short. Before we had Christ living in us, any obedience we may have mustered was useless. After Christ is living in us all obedience is Christ's spirit doing it which makes it perfect.
If we despise the laws of God and refuse to keep His commands then the Spirit of Christ is not in us.
Romans 8:7-9 because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s Law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.
You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ

You can say that submitting to God is not required all you want but God says those who are hostile to Him refuse to submit to His Law and they are NOT CHRIST'S. HE said if we have His Spirit we will submit, why? Because we understand the reason God wants us to, we understand the enormous responsibility we are going to be given and ONLY those who have learned to LOVE His laws and allowed them to be written on their hearts will be in the Kingdom of God. But know that it cannot be done without the Spirit of Christ living in us. That Spirit is given as a GIFT, it can never be earned. Once we have it we MUST use it. How do we use it? By obeying.

I think Romans 6:15-19 does a good job of addressing this:

"What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification."

 

[danstribe]

Can you obey the TC to the letter? And also the second greatest commandment to the letter?
Paul said the TC were the letter that kills/ the ministration of death and condemnation.
In order to follow the TC, and second greatest comnandments to the letter.
You can have no impure thoughts, not look at a woman with lust in your eye( Christ's update) you must never have an unkind thought about anyone, nor say an unkind word. You must love all those you come into contact with, including those who hate, malign, persecute and mistreat you. And you must do it all faultlessly without one slip

Yes you are so right! And yes, we do keep it perfectly but it isn't us who keeps it, it is Christ IN US, He is the one doing it, we are just submitting our bodies to Him. Any good thing we do, any obedience to the perfect law of God that our bodies and minds do it not us! It is Christ living in us and working through as to live as He lived and as He continues to live. If we sin, if we have a wrong thought or action that is contrary to God's perfect law THAT is us, thanks be to God for sending His Son, not only to die for the forgiveness we need but to live for the life we need. God's GRACE covers our sins forever, the only thing He remembers is the perfect obedience of His Son living through us. What a wonderful thing to have our sins covered and only the perfecting life of Christ's continued obedience using our bodies to do it remains!

 

[stuart lawrence]

Yes you are so right! And yes, we do keep it perfectly but it isn't us who keeps it, it is Christ IN US, He is the one doing it, we are just submitting our bodies to Him. Any good thing we do, any obedience to the perfect law of God that our bodies and minds do it not us! It is Christ living in us and working through as to live as He lived and as He continues to live. If we sin, if we have a wrong thought or action that is contrary to God's perfect law THAT is us, thanks be to God for sending His Son, not only to die for the forgiveness we need but to live for the life we need. God's GRACE covers our sins forever, the only thing He remembers is the perfect obedience of His Son living through us. What a wonderful thing to have our sins covered and only the perfecting life of Christ's continued obedience using our bodies to do it remains!

But if our bodies reflect perfect obedience to Gods good and holy laws, we cannot sin or have any wrong thoughts can we

 

[danstribe]

The true Christian in their heart wants to live as God desires them to, for that is where his laws have been placed

Very true. He sent His Son to show us what He desires us to do and through studying the scripture and prayer we will grow in that knowledge and understanding. Only by learning how Christ lived will we know how to live as God wants us to. We put it into action by allowing the life of Christ to continue to be lived through us and He OBEYED even unto death.

 

[AlexDTX]

Those who argue that we are no longer required to keep the ten commandments are misleading people away from following Christ for He kept the ten commandments, not only to the letter but fully and completely by the Spirit, in His mind and heart, in His thoughts He never broke a single one. If we follow Christ we are to live as He lived and walk as He walked.

I think you misunderstand the opposing argument. The new birth is the law of Christ. Ezekiel said that He would circumcise our hearts of stone and write his laws upon our hearts. Paul said that we are living epistles known and read by all men. When we know him, as I said in my second comment, we love him so we keep his commandments.

If you consider the majority of Christians who know Christ through the new birth, they do obey the commandments because their hearts have been changed by the Spirit. To argue that we must keep the 10 commandments is an argument with no one in a practical sense. The argument leads people to think the case is being made that we have to keep the commandments to justify our selves, which is not so, and every born again believer knows that is not so. So is the argument frequently being made? When I listen to people making that argument, I sense self righteousness and it is abhorrent to the Spirit of Christ within me.

It also makes me think that those people really don't know Jesus. Of if they have the new birth they misunderstand Jesus and what his love has done for the Church as well as all mankind.

 

[Thursday]

It seems to me that, while under the law, obeying God's law is a duty and a chore, but when under grace, it is a joy and simply part of loving God, loving each other, loving one's neighbor and loving our enemy. The threat of punishment is absent, but the desire to obey our Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer, makes us adhere to His will (I.e. His law).

Obedience to Jesus is not identical to following the Jewish law. Do you think a Christian can live a life of persistent disobedience to Jesus without repentance and still be saved?

 

[danstribe]

But if our bodies reflect perfect obedience to Gods good and holy laws, we cannot sin or have any wrong thoughts can we

The sin and the wrong thoughts are not Christ's they are ours and like Paul said, even though the Spirit in us hates the sin our bodies still sin because flesh is weak, this is where GRACE comes in to rescue us from our weakness to sin! God's GRACE covers our sin, forgives us, so that the only thing God sees in us is the perfection that is accomplished by His Son living in us. He is our parent who looks at His beautiful child and forgives our wrongdoings and sees only what is good and perfect. Our job is to repent when we sin, get up and keep living with the mind of Christ to guide us and at the resurrection all of His perfection will remain and we will become complete, no longer capable of sinning either in mind or body!