Why would God have to punish the wicked for eternity?

[Bob corrigan]

I have some questions for those who believe that hell is a real place and that the wicked will be punished forever. What would be the purpose of this? What does it accomplish? How does this give glory to God? Why would God require the wicked dead to suffer forever?

I am not looking to debate whether or not hell is real. I don't believe it is; others do. I'm not looking for somebody to prove hell is real. What I seek is Scripture-based answers, answers using verses. I don't want opinions or speculations.

I wonder if that camp even thinks about these questions. It is clear in Scripture that unforgiven sinners will be punished for their sins. Jesus was punished on the cross for sins. He paid the price of the punishment for sins. Yet, did he not die? And with his death, did not the punishment for sins end? If you use the rationale that the punishment for sins is never to end, doesn't that mean that Jesus would still be on the cross, still being punished for sins, until today? And beyond today into eternity?
Without a doubt, there have been many, many wicked people in the history of mankind. Individuals, governments, religions, criminals, warlords, etc., are personally responsible for countless deaths. And the many others who have caused incredible pain and suffering. People who should have been made to suffer great punishment while alive. It is also true that God dealt out some severe punishments in the Old Testament.

Let's move on from all of that. So Jesus has returned and judged all of the goats. So, what happens next? There is no way that all goats are equally guilty of the same evil deeds, quantity or degree. Your vision of Dante's Infernal aside, Scripture makes no mention of what type of punishment or if there are different degrees of punishment awaiting the goats, so we must deduce that the punishment is the same type for all of the goats. So, will a man who abused his children, committed adultery, and embezzled money from his job be punished the same as Hitler or Stalin? Or a woman who was a junkie, defrauded the government, stole widows' social security checks, and robbed men for kicks is going to pay the same price as Pol Pot or Mao?
According to the narrative, every goat in hell will be punished forever and ever. Not just a hundred years, a thousand, a million but trillions of years? Doesn't that seem like overkill? Doesn't that seem beyond excessive? God can do as He sees fit, of course. So no amount of punishment ever fits the crimes, right? A thousand years of 24/7, excruciating, non-stop pain and agony isn't even close to being enough punishment, right? Not a thousand, not a million, not a trillion years is even close to unforgiven sin ever being paid for?
This is what you people believe. The idea that God would simply destroy all the goats after judgment day just doesn't make any sense, does it? According to you, God has no mercy and no sense of justice. Just "Let 'em burn," right? "Let them suffer forever," right? To me, this makes God out to be the most sadistic, mean, and petty tyrant one could ever imagine.
And yet, why would God do this? Everything God has done, is doing and will do is because He has a reason to do so. What would be the reason for hell? Everything that God started is going to come to an end and God is going to start over; any traces of the old world and the taint of man and sin will have been eradicated and forgotten. Does God want to keep a reminder of sinful men around? Is hell going to be there as a warning to the saints, who after the resurrection, will never commit sin again? I'm just trying to put this puzzle of ever-lasting punishment together. I'm hoping one of you can explain it to me, using Scripture of course!

 

[Der Alte]

I have some questions for those who believe that hell is a real place and that the wicked will be punished forever. What would be the purpose of this? What does it accomplish? How does this give glory to God? Why would God require the wicked dead to suffer forever?
I am not looking to debate whether or not hell is real. I don't believe it is; others do. I'm not looking for somebody to prove hell is real. What I seek is Scripture-based answers, answers using verses. I don't want opinions or speculations.
I wonder if that camp even thinks about these questions. It is clear in Scripture that unforgiven sinners will be punished for their sins. Jesus was punished on the cross for sins. He paid the price of the punishment for sins. Yet, did he not die? And with his death, did not the punishment for sins end? If you use the rationale that the punishment for sins is never to end, doesn't that mean that Jesus would still be on the cross, still being punished for sins, until today? And beyond today into eternity?
Without a doubt, there have been many, many wicked people in the history of mankind. Individuals, governments, religions, criminals, warlords, etc., are personally responsible for countless deaths. And the many others who have caused incredible pain and suffering. People who should have been made to suffer great punishment while alive. It is also true that God dealt out some severe punishments in the Old Testament.
Let's move on from all of that. So Jesus has returned and judged all of the goats. So, what happens next? There is no way that all goats are equally guilty of the same evil deeds, quantity or degree. Your vision of Dante's Infernal aside, Scripture makes no mention of what type of punishment or if there are different degrees of punishment awaiting the goats, so we must deduce that the punishment is the same type for all of the goats. So, will a man who abused his children, committed adultery, and embezzled money from his job be punished the same as Hitler or Stalin? Or a woman who was a junkie, defrauded the government, stole widows' social security checks, and robbed men for kicks is going to pay the same price as Pol Pot or Mao?
According to the narrative, every goat in hell will be punished forever and ever. Not just a hundred years, a thousand, a million but trillions of years? Doesn't that seem like overkill? Doesn't that seem beyond excessive? God can do as He sees fit, of course. So no amount of punishment ever fits the crimes, right? A thousand years of 24/7, excruciating, non-stop pain and agony isn't even close to being enough punishment, right? Not a thousand, not a million, not a trillion years is even close to unforgiven sin ever being paid for?
This is what you people believe. The idea that God would simply destroy all the goats after judgment day just doesn't make any sense, does it? According to you, God has no mercy and no sense of justice. Just "Let 'em burn," right? "Let them suffer forever," right? To me, this makes God out to be the most sadistic, mean, and petty tyrant one could ever imagine.
And yet, why would God do this? Everything God has done, is doing and will do is because He has a reason to do so. What would be the reason for hell? Everything that God started is going to come to an end and God is going to start over; any traces of the old world and the taint of man and sin will have been eradicated and forgotten. Does God want to keep a reminder of sinful men around? Is hell going to be there as a warning to the saints, who after the resurrection, will never commit sin again? I'm just trying to put this puzzle of ever-lasting punishment together. I'm hoping one of you can explain it to me, using Scripture of course!

In other words you want to post your unsupported opinion without having it questioned or refuted. Where is sinful man told to use our biased, limited reasoning to explain God's word? You conclude "using scripture only" although you have not quoted one vs. of scripture yourself.
I will take Jesus' word for it.

EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left vs. 41] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”[EOB, p. 96]​

…..Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, linked below, translated “aionios,” in Matt 25:46, as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
…..I doubt there is anyone better qualified than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted above and below, to know the correct translation of the Greek in the N.T.
Link to EOB online:

The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The New Testament (The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible)

archive.org

…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46, above, and 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18., below.

EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.[EOB, p. 518]​

In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18.
…..Some badly informed folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.”
Sorry, that is impossible, both “prune” and “correction” are verbs. “Kolasis” is a noun. A noun cannot be translated as a verb.
Also according to the EOB Greek scholars “kolasis” means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.”
The word “correction” occurs one time in the N.T.
2 Timothy 3:16 ἐπανόρθωσις/epanorthosis. It looks nothing like kolasis.
…..It is acknowledged that modern Greek differs from koine Greek but I am confident that the native Greek speaking EOB scholars, supported by 2000 years +/- of uninterrupted Greek scholarship, are more than competent enough to know the correct translation of obsolete Greek words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer in use and to translate them correctly. Much as English speaking scholars today know the meaning of obsolete English words which occur in, e.g. the 1611 KJV and can define them correctly.
= = = = =

Matthew 7:21-23​

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.​

(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

Neither the Father, Himself, nor Jesus, Himself, ever said that all mankind will be saved, or enter the kingdom of heaven.
As a matter of fact, Jesus said, “Not every one …shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;” Then Jesus said, “Many” [NOT a few], “will say to me in that day,” i.e. Judgement day, “Lord, Lord, have we not … in thy name done many wonderful works?”
Then Jesus will say to those “many” “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” When Jesus says “never” He means “never” not someday by and by.

 

[Unqualified]

Why? For rejecting His much beloved Son. For dying in ones wickedness while rejecting his sons offer of eternal life. Rejecting eternal life but getting eternal death and separation from God. He has told us and we all have been warned and know what to expect.

 

[Dan1988]

I have some questions for those who believe that hell is a real place and that the wicked will be punished forever. What would be the purpose of this? What does it accomplish? How does this give glory to God? Why would God require the wicked dead to suffer forever?

I am not looking to debate whether or not hell is real. I don't believe it is; others do. I'm not looking for somebody to prove hell is real. What I seek is Scripture-based answers, answers using verses. I don't want opinions or speculations.

I wonder if that camp even thinks about these questions. It is clear in Scripture that unforgiven sinners will be punished for their sins. Jesus was punished on the cross for sins. He paid the price of the punishment for sins. Yet, did he not die? And with his death, did not the punishment for sins end? If you use the rationale that the punishment for sins is never to end, doesn't that mean that Jesus would still be on the cross, still being punished for sins, until today? And beyond today into eternity?
Without a doubt, there have been many, many wicked people in the history of mankind. Individuals, governments, religions, criminals, warlords, etc., are personally responsible for countless deaths. And the many others who have caused incredible pain and suffering. People who should have been made to suffer great punishment while alive. It is also true that God dealt out some severe punishments in the Old Testament.

Let's move on from all of that. So Jesus has returned and judged all of the goats. So, what happens next? There is no way that all goats are equally guilty of the same evil deeds, quantity or degree. Your vision of Dante's Infernal aside, Scripture makes no mention of what type of punishment or if there are different degrees of punishment awaiting the goats, so we must deduce that the punishment is the same type for all of the goats. So, will a man who abused his children, committed adultery, and embezzled money from his job be punished the same as Hitler or Stalin? Or a woman who was a junkie, defrauded the government, stole widows' social security checks, and robbed men for kicks is going to pay the same price as Pol Pot or Mao?
According to the narrative, every goat in hell will be punished forever and ever. Not just a hundred years, a thousand, a million but trillions of years? Doesn't that seem like overkill? Doesn't that seem beyond excessive? God can do as He sees fit, of course. So no amount of punishment ever fits the crimes, right? A thousand years of 24/7, excruciating, non-stop pain and agony isn't even close to being enough punishment, right? Not a thousand, not a million, not a trillion years is even close to unforgiven sin ever being paid for?
This is what you people believe. The idea that God would simply destroy all the goats after judgment day just doesn't make any sense, does it? According to you, God has no mercy and no sense of justice. Just "Let 'em burn," right? "Let them suffer forever," right? To me, this makes God out to be the most sadistic, mean, and petty tyrant one could ever imagine.
And yet, why would God do this? Everything God has done, is doing and will do is because He has a reason to do so. What would be the reason for hell? Everything that God started is going to come to an end and God is going to start over; any traces of the old world and the taint of man and sin will have been eradicated and forgotten. Does God want to keep a reminder of sinful men around? Is hell going to be there as a warning to the saints, who after the resurrection, will never commit sin again? I'm just trying to put this puzzle of ever-lasting punishment together. I'm hoping one of you can explain it to me, using Scripture of course!

Jesus spoke about hell far more than He spoke about heaven. The fact that He used extreme examples like plucking our eye out and cutting off our arm, means that we should take His warnings seriously.
He said over and over again that hell is a place of extreme torment, he describes it as an everlasting lake of fire. To be cast into the lake of fire, would be like swimming in red hot lava.
He said that it is forever, where the worm does not die. The reason hell is eternal, is those in hell continue to blaspheme God's name whilst they scream in agony so their sin continues forever as does the punishment.
The Bible does teach that everyone will be rewarded or punished according to his deeds, so we don't all get the same reward or punishment. The important thing is that there won't be an opportunity to repent after death, so our state will be fixed in eternity when we die.
God is glorified by punishing the sinners for all eternity, it shows us how much he hates sin and warns us to repent while we have the opportunity.
Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'"

Revelation 20:15
And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

Matthew 13:50
And throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;

Jude 1:7
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

Mark 9:43
And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.

Matthew 5:29
If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.

 

[FireDragon76]

Jesus spoke about hell far more than He spoke about heaven. The fact that He used extreme examples like plucking our eye out and cutting off our arm, means that we should take His warnings seriously.
He said over and over again that hell is a place of extreme torment, he describes it as an everlasting lake of fire. To be cast into the lake of fire, would be like swimming in red hot lava.
He said that it is forever, where the worm does not die. The reason hell is eternal, is those in hell continue to blaspheme God's name whilst they scream in agony so their sin continues forever as does the punishment.
The Bible does teach that everyone will be rewarded or punished according to his deeds, so we don't all get the same reward or punishment. The important thing is that there won't be an opportunity to repent after death, so our state will be fixed in eternity when we die.
God is glorified by punishing the sinners for all eternity, it shows us how much he hates sin and warns us to repent while we have the opportunity.
Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'"

Revelation 20:15
And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

Matthew 13:50
And throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;

Jude 1:7
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Revelation 19:20
And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

Mark 9:43
And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.

Matthew 5:29
If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.

Just because Jesus talks about dire consequences for sin doesn't necessarily entail "eternal conscious torment" for people that happen to belong to the wrong religion. It's true I can't prove that in some positivist manner, but I don't think the case for the classical western view of perdition is iron-clad.

I have a hard time believing there were modern Homo sapiens for around 70,000 years and they all went to Hell simply for not believing in Jesus. Likewise I have trouble believing that the tens of billions of people that have lived since the time of Christ, and never been in fellowship with any of the Apostles or their successors, have all gone to Hell. If God is so offended by "wrong belief", why are there so many religions?

 

[Blade]

No one can answer this other then we all get a free choice. I personally believe most are blind as Christ told them if you were bind you would have no sin you say you see your sin remains. Praise God we all say we can see. Think in Rev no one could number all those people and those were just from the great tribulation. So whos JESUS are we going to be held accountable to? Oh we have just here on this site saying "many this many that" and its negative. You do tend to wonder .. how do they know most? How many have they talked to in their own town? Anyway..

Hell is real a place made for Satan and his angels never for man. But anyone that follows him will get the same punishment. See for that I believe they are those that know that they know that they know Jesus Christ really came in the flesh and know He is the way the truth and the life. They know there is no other way to the Father. They know Satan is real and freely follow him.

What oh brings great joy to me is knowing NO MAN has the answer here and no man has seen who He writes in His books. Then so many forget He as its written in Samuel He alone sees the heart and man only sees the flesh. So for me most are blind. Really? He GOD leaves heaven becomes His own creation and takes the full punishment for every human. Yeah HE does not leave one persons soul so to speak to man. Yeah its not left up to us. Think when Christ rose AMEN and was walking the earth 40days do you know He never preached once. Yeah.. what about all those people just when He walked this earth and died? Seems theres so much more here we don't see. But man will make it not GOD man will make it "Turn or burn". Praise GOD He takes anyone that comes to Him. Ask to see this through His eyes... you will never see people the same.. YOU ask you seek you pray.

 

[d taylor]

-
​

First off all sin has been forgiven, so you not understand that, proves that you do not understand other areas about hell/the lake of fire.

An unbeliever goes to the lake of fire only because they never received God's free gift of Eternal Life and became a born again child of God. Without God's Eternal Life, the lake of fire is the only place an unbeliever may spend eternity. They remain a sinner for all eternity but a forgiven sinner.

having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;

I have some questions for those who believe that hell is a real place and that the wicked will be punished forever. What would be the purpose of this? What does it accomplish? How does this give glory to God? Why would God require the wicked dead to suffer forever?

I am not looking to debate whether or not hell is real. I don't believe it is; others do. I'm not looking for somebody to prove hell is real. What I seek is Scripture-based answers, answers using verses. I don't want opinions or speculations.

I wonder if that camp even thinks about these questions. It is clear in Scripture that unforgiven sinners will be punished for their sins. Jesus was punished on the cross for sins. He paid the price of the punishment for sins. Yet, did he not die? And with his death, did not the punishment for sins end? If you use the rationale that the punishment for sins is never to end, doesn't that mean that Jesus would still be on the cross, still being punished for sins, until today? And beyond today into eternity?
Without a doubt, there have been many, many wicked people in the history of mankind. Individuals, governments, religions, criminals, warlords, etc., are personally responsible for countless deaths. And the many others who have caused incredible pain and suffering. People who should have been made to suffer great punishment while alive. It is also true that God dealt out some severe punishments in the Old Testament.

Let's move on from all of that. So Jesus has returned and judged all of the goats. So, what happens next? There is no way that all goats are equally guilty of the same evil deeds, quantity or degree. Your vision of Dante's Infernal aside, Scripture makes no mention of what type of punishment or if there are different degrees of punishment awaiting the goats, so we must deduce that the punishment is the same type for all of the goats. So, will a man who abused his children, committed adultery, and embezzled money from his job be punished the same as Hitler or Stalin? Or a woman who was a junkie, defrauded the government, stole widows' social security checks, and robbed men for kicks is going to pay the same price as Pol Pot or Mao?
According to the narrative, every goat in hell will be punished forever and ever. Not just a hundred years, a thousand, a million but trillions of years? Doesn't that seem like overkill? Doesn't that seem beyond excessive? God can do as He sees fit, of course. So no amount of punishment ever fits the crimes, right? A thousand years of 24/7, excruciating, non-stop pain and agony isn't even close to being enough punishment, right? Not a thousand, not a million, not a trillion years is even close to unforgiven sin ever being paid for?
This is what you people believe. The idea that God would simply destroy all the goats after judgment day just doesn't make any sense, does it? According to you, God has no mercy and no sense of justice. Just "Let 'em burn," right? "Let them suffer forever," right? To me, this makes God out to be the most sadistic, mean, and petty tyrant one could ever imagine.
And yet, why would God do this? Everything God has done, is doing and will do is because He has a reason to do so. What would be the reason for hell? Everything that God started is going to come to an end and God is going to start over; any traces of the old world and the taint of man and sin will have been eradicated and forgotten. Does God want to keep a reminder of sinful men around? Is hell going to be there as a warning to the saints, who after the resurrection, will never commit sin again? I'm just trying to put this puzzle of ever-lasting punishment together. I'm hoping one of you can explain it to me, using Scripture of course!

 

[Michie]

Father Fortea, why does hell need to be eternal?
Repentance can be born only of grace. If God does not send grace to a spirit, making it understand the perpetrated evil, then there can be no supernatural repentance. Without grace, a demon can understand that it was a foolish decision to have rebelled, a decision that has caused it suffering. But true repentance is qualitatively different from just mere awareness. It is not simply an act of the understanding; rather, it is a gift from God so that we might bend our knees before Him and humbly ask for His forgiveness. Without this grace, one may feel pain for making a wrong decision, but true repentance is beyond him. Demons can admit that their choice led to suffering, but this does not stop them from hating God.

Continued below.

Hell is Eternal -- Why Does Hell Need to be Eternal?

Exorcist Father José Antonio Fortea explores the issue of hell being eternal and explains why it is that hell needs to be eternal.

spiritualdirection.com

 

[Michie]

Romans 2
God’s Righteous Judgment

2 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

The Jews and the Law

17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God; 18 if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of little children, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”

25 Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26 So then, if those who are not circumcised keep the law’s requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the[c] written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Footnotes

Romans 2:6 Psalm 62:12; Prov. 24:12
Romans 2:24 Isaiah 52:5 (see Septuagint); Ezek. 36:20,22
Romans 2:27 Or who, by means of a

 

[Dan1988]

Just because Jesus talks about dire consequences for sin doesn't necessarily entail "eternal conscious torment" for people that happen to belong to the wrong religion. It's true I can't prove that in some positivist manner, but I don't think the case for the classical western view of perdition is iron-clad.

I have a hard time believing there were modern Homo sapiens for around 70,000 years and they all went to Hell simply for not believing in Jesus. Likewise I have trouble believing that the tens of billions of people that have lived since the time of Christ, and never been in fellowship with any of the Apostles or their successors, have all gone to Hell. If God is so offended by "wrong belief", why are there so many religions?

The Biblical doctrine of hell does teach that we will all be judged according to our works. it also teaches that those who heard the gospel and rejected it will suffer greater punishment than those who lived in times and places where the gospel didn't reach them.

We know God is just and He would never punish anyone more than they deserve, so we can rest assured that God saved many who never heard any of the Holy Scripture. God promised to save people from every tribe and tongue, I'm certain this includes people from every age since the creation of mankind.

The Bible mentions those who will be separated from God for all eternity, that sounds like the lesser punishment compared to those who will be cast into the lake of fire, where they will be tormented forever. We could conclude that there is a Taylor made punishment for every individual who dies in their sin, so hell is not a one size fits all place.

Jesus also said that everyone who inherits eternal life in the Kingdom of God, will also be rewarded according to their fruit. We can't expect a minimalist Christian, (one who does the bare minimum) for Gods glory in this life to receive the same reward as one who suffered persecution for his faithfulness.

We need to be cautious, when it comes to choosing between what God has said and what men say. Men a liars, they deliberately invent lies to lead people away from the truth. God never created Homo Sapiens. We know that the fallen Angels took women for their wives and their off spring were not men, they were Demonic creatures.
The fallen Angels were extremely wise, so they knew how to manipulate genetics to produce all kinds of creatures. God destroyed the vast majority with the flood, so there may be some still surviving in caves and other remote areas.

Many secular paleontologists claim that mankind is around 4 million years old, but this is pure speculation since carbon dating is only reliable up to 5000 years. Nobody has found any evidence to prove that man has been on the earth for more than 6000 years. One important fact to remember is God created everything as fully formed mature creations, Adam was already an adult on the first day he was created and the trees were fully grown and the mountains already had what appears to be millions of years worth of sediment layers but they were only a day old.
We all have a clear choice, believe what God has said, or believe what sinful man teaches.

 

[d taylor]

The Biblical doctrine of hell does teach that we will all be judged according to our works. it also teaches that those who heard the gospel and rejected it will suffer greater punishment than those who lived in times and places where the gospel didn't reach them.

Show the verse or verses of The Biblical doctrine of hell, stating that all believers and unbelievers will be judged according to works.

 

[Michie]

Most Relevant Verses

Romans 2:6

who will render to each person according to his deeds:

2 Corinthians 5:10

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

1 Corinthians 4:5

Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God.

1 Peter 1:17

If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;

Revelation 20:12

And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

Psalm 62:12

And lovingkindness is Yours, O Lord,
For You recompense a man according to his work.

Proverbs 24:12

If you say, “See, we did not know this,”
Does He not consider it who weighs the hearts?
And does He not know it who keeps your soul?
And will He not render to man according to his work?

Colossians 3:25

For he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and that without partiality.

Proverbs 11:31

If the righteous will be rewarded in the earth,
How much more the wicked and the sinner!

1 Corinthians 3:8

Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

 

[timothyu]

Compare G0d's punishment from the Garden time which we now know is not eternal, to the coming punishment that is. In one case death is no longer final, where in the other death is. There is nothing there in the latter about existence but rather permanent second death (non-existence). God had enough trouble with His rebellious gods in Heaven that were created eternal, to now also give these damned humans access to the tree of life.

 

[JulieB67]

What would be the purpose of this?

You're right there is no purpose.
I believe in the Lake of Fire at Judgement Day and I believe Christ when he calls it the second death. I don't believe anyone will burn for an eternity. A fire burns up what's what's thrown in. In the OT, we are told the wicked will burn up and they will be ashes. That is eternal punishment. There's no coming back from that.

And with his death, did not the punishment for sins end?

Not the punishment. Christ is the sacrifice for sins, the one and all time atonement. And it's through him we might find repentance -a change of heart and new way of thinking.

How that happens with each individual until Judgement Day, I have no clue. Our Father is the judge, thank goodness, not us.

But at Judgement Day anyone not found in the book of life will be thrown in and as Christ states that is the second death not eternal life in hell.

 

[Michie]

Jerusalem’s ancient garbage dump—a place called Gehenna—was illustrative of the ceaseless agonies of hell. This dump was on the south side of Jerusalem. In Old Testament times, children had been sacrificed to idols there (2 Kings 23:10); in Jesus’ day, it was a place burning with constant fires to consume the waste that was thrown there. The material burned there included everything from household trash to animal carcasses to convicted criminals (Jeremiah 7:31–33). Needless to say, the Jews considered Gehenna a cursed place of impurity and uncleanness.

The word translated “hell” in Mark 9:43 is the Greek word Gehenna, which comes from the Hebrew name for a place called the “Valley of Hinnom.” Jesus uses this place to paint a vivid image of what hell is like. The Jewish people often associated the Valley of Hinnom with spiritual death.

In Mark 9:48, when Jesus says, “Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched” (ESV), He is quoting from Isaiah 66:24: “They will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.” In both texts the word translated as “worm” literally means “grub” or “maggot.” A maggot would have an obvious association with a dump like Gehenna where dead bodies are thrown; however, the maggot Christ speaks of “will not die.”

Taken at face value, this text is one of the most horrific descriptions of what hell is like. The thought of eternal torment, likened to maggots eating away at a rotting corpse, is undoubtedly ghastly. Hell is so awful that Christ said, figuratively speaking, it’s better to cut off the hand that causes you to sin than to end up in hell (Matthew 5:30).

Mark 9:48 does not mean that there are literal worms in hell or that there are worms that live forever; rather, Jesus is teaching the fact of unending suffering in hell—the “worm” never stops causing torment. Notice that the worm is personal. Both Isaiah 66:24 and Mark 9:48 use the word their to identify the worm’s owner. The sources of torment are attached each to its own host.

Some Bible scholars believe the “worm” refers to a man’s conscience. Those in hell, being completely cut off from God, exist with a nagging, guilty conscience that, like a persistent worm, gnaws away at its victim with a remorse that can never be mitigated. No matter what the word worm refers to, the most important thing to be gained from these words of Christ is that we should do everything in our power to escape the horrors of hell, and there is only one thing to that end—receiving Jesus as the Lord of our lives (John 3:16).

What is the worm that will not die in Mark 9:48? | GotQuestions.org

What is the worm that will not die in Mark 9:48? What does the worm that will not die have to do with an eternal hell?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Michie]

 

[Clare73]

I have some questions for those who believe that hell is a real place and that the wicked will be punished forever. What would be the purpose of this? What does it accomplish? How does this give glory to God? Why would God require the wicked dead to suffer forever?

Well, for starters, none of your objections actually matter regarding the truth of the word of God in Mt 25:46, which is authoritative.

I am not looking to debate whether or not hell is real. I don't believe it is; others do. I'm not looking for somebody to prove hell is real. What I seek is Scripture-based answers, answers using verses. I don't want opinions or speculations.

I wonder if that camp even thinks about these questions. It is clear in Scripture that unforgiven sinners will be punished for their sins. Jesus was punished on the cross for sins. He paid the price of the punishment for sins. Yet, did he not die? And with his death, did not the punishment for sins end?

It ended only for those who believe in and trust on Jesus' atoning work for their sin.
Those who do not do so are still guilty, their sin has not been atoned for, one's belief or unbelief of Jn 3:18, Jn 3:36 not-with-standing.

If you use the rationale that the punishment for sins is never to end, doesn't that mean that Jesus would still be on the cross, still being punished for sins, until today? And beyond today into eternity?

Failure to believe Jn 3:18, Jn 3:36.

Without a doubt, there have been many, many wicked people in the history of mankind. Individuals, governments, religions, criminals, warlords, etc., are personally responsible for countless deaths. And the many others who have caused incredible pain and suffering. People who should have been made to suffer great punishment while alive. It is also true that God dealt out some severe punishments in the Old Testament.

Let's move on from all of that. So Jesus has returned and judged all of the goats. So, what happens next? There is no way that all goats are equally guilty of the same evil deeds, quantity or degree.

Indeed, they are all guilty of the sin of rejecting Jesus Christ, who is the only remedy for God's condemnation of all men (Ro 5:18).

Your vision of Dante's Infernal aside, Scripture makes no mention of what type of punishment or if there are different degrees of punishment awaiting the goats, so we must deduce that the punishment is the same type for all of the goats. So, will a man who abused his children, committed adultery, and embezzled money from his job be punished the same as Hitler or Stalin? Or a woman who was a junkie, defrauded the government, stole widows' social security checks, and robbed men for kicks is going to pay the same price as Pol Pot or Mao?

It's not about bad behavior, it's only about believing in or rejecting Jesus Christ (Jn 3:18, Jn 3:36).
That belief in and trust on Jesus Christ is the only remedy for God's condemnation of all men born of sinful Adam (Ro 5:18).

According to the narrative, every goat in hell will be punished forever and ever. Not just a hundred years, a thousand, a million but trillions of years? Doesn't that seem like overkill? Doesn't that seem beyond excessive? God can do as He sees fit, of course. So no amount of punishment ever fits the crimes, right? A thousand years of 24/7, excruciating, non-stop pain and agony isn't even close to being enough punishment, right? Not a thousand, not a million, not a trillion years is even close to unforgiven sin ever being paid for?
This is what you people believe. The idea that God would simply destroy all the goats after judgment day just doesn't make any sense, does it? According to you, God has no mercy and no sense of justice.

I'm thinking God is not responsible for anyone's rejection of his one and only remedy for his condemnation of all men (Ro 5:18).

Just "Let 'em burn," right? "Let them suffer forever," right? To me, this makes God out to be the most sadistic, mean, and petty tyrant one could ever imagine. And yet, why would God do this? Everything God has done, is doing and will do is because He has a reason to do so. What would be the reason for hell? Everything that God started is going to come to an end and God is going to start over; any traces of the old world and the taint of man and sin will have been eradicated and forgotten. Does God want to keep a reminder of sinful men around? Is hell going to be there as a warning to the saints who after the resurrection, will never commit sin again? I'm just trying to put this puzzle of ever-lasting punishment together. I'm hoping one of you can explain it to me, using Scripture of course!

No, hell is the result of their choice to reject the one and only remedy for hell. . .they chose it.
Don't blame God for their own choice.

Your issue is with the infinite wisdom of God's plan for mankind (Eph 3:9-11, 1Co 2:7).
Our job is to believe it, which does not necessarily require understanding it (Ro 11:33).

However, I can testify that with the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit, the more you absorb the truth of all God's word written, the more you will see, understand and agree (Ro 11:33-36).

 

[timothyu]

Matthew 25: 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal

This simply states that the second death unlike the first will be permanent/everlasting. No more salvation. Only the righteous shall receive life eternal, not the damned (they are aware no more).

 

[Michie]

The Early Church Fathers, with very few exceptions, agree with traditional views descriptions of Hell as a place of eternal, conscious torment:

1. Hell is a place of judgment for those who have rejected God and denied Jesus as their Savior
2. Hell is a place of separation from God
3. Hell is a place of torment in which the rebellious are in anguish and pain
4. Hell is a place where the rebellious are tormented forever and are conscious of this torment for all eternity (In fact, the eternal duration of their torment is often compared to the eternal duration of the reward of the saved)

At the same time, the earliest Church Fathers are ambiguous on those areas where the Bible is ALSO ambiguous.

1. The exact nature of the torment of the rebellious is unknown
2. The manner in which the rebellious are kept alive in spite of ‘deathly’ anguish is also un-described

The Early Church Fathers simply reflected the clearest teachings of the Bible. Here is a very brief assessment of several quotes made by early Christians about the nature of Hell:

From “The Epistle of Barnabas” (70-130AD)
The author of the Epistle of Barnabas is unknown, but many consider him to simply be who he said he was, Barnabas, the associate of Paul who is mentioned in the Book of Acts. The letter was written to new converts to Christianity:

The way of darkness is crooked, and it is full of cursing. It is the way of eternal death with punishment. (“Epistle of Barnabas”)

From Ignatius of Antioch (110AD)
Ignatius was a student of the Apostle John, and succeeded the Apostle Peter as the Bishop of Antioch. He wrote a number of important letters to believers in churches in the area:

Continued below.

What Did Early Christians Believe About Hell? | Cold Case Christianity

The Early Church Fathers, with very few exceptions, agree with traditional views descriptions of Hell as a place of eternal, conscious torment

coldcasechristianity.com

 

[Clare73]

Matthew 25: 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal

This simply states that the second death unlike the first will be permanent/everlasting. No more salvation. Only the righteous shall receive life eternal, not the damned (they are aware no more).

"Everlasting punishment" (Mt 25:46) is not punishment if you don't exist.