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Why would God create a flawed creation?

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Eudaimonist

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with the emphasis on flawed? or fictional?

Because that is my perspective on the matter. I am pointing out the irony of asking a nonbeliever why he thinks he can question an infallible God.

Of course, one could still question God, and all one has to be is a human being who is capable of rational thought. Until God provides a detailed summary of different creation options, and the lists of positives and negatives for each option with an explanation why he chose one list over others, and presents some sort of proof that his is the best option, then it is certainly not wrong to express your own thoughtful views.

BTW, I suspect that "Well arent you special. You would do things differently then god. How are you in a position to question god?" is just an ancient human ploy to get believers to shut off their brains. It's a manipulative guilt trip.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Gottservant

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it is irony (to say how dare you), but only to God? Is that your point?

I think I can see this irony, but only just

as for ploys, I can think of easier, less equitable ploys than a few words designed to confront
 
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the iconoclast

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No it isnt. What authority do have to judge god.

How would you do things differently then.

To gottservant 'ill be back' soon.

To all atheists get ready 'ill be back'
 
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Gottservant

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No it isnt. What authority do have to judge god.

How would you do things differently then.

To gottservant 'ill be back' soon.

To all atheists get ready 'ill be back'

Try not to be desperate.

Even if you died believing nothing, you would enjoy life (in eternity) more than an atheist.
 
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Eudaimonist

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it is irony (to say how dare you), but only to God? Is that your point?

The irony is that he doesn't believe that a God exists, and one is asking him how he would challenge an infallible being when fallible human beings are the authors.

Imagine it this way. Imagine that you would be asking a Hindu how he could possibly challenge the view that Christianity is the true religion and that his Hindu religion is false. Why wouldn't he be able to simply turn that back on you, and ask you how you could possibly be more wise than the Hindu deities?

the iconoclast said:
What authority do have to judge god.

The authority of rational thought, which we all have as human beings.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Gottservant

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The authority of rational thought, which we all have as human beings.


eudaimonia,

Mark

I am perplexed as to why you would want to assert rational thought as an authority, presumably on the basis of itself, when rational thought can only be arrived at once a prior commitment has been made (to something which, rationally speaking, is implicitly greater than the rational thought, itself, as it is).

Are you saying you are committed to all things, or trying to imply you are committed to nothing?
 
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Messy

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Well if you get to know Him you find out He is loving, which makes me think He couldn't have prevented it. I can't find in the Bible that He was able to prevent it.
 
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Eudaimonist

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What sort of commitment do you mean? And why are you saying that it is necessary?


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Gottservant

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What sort of commitment do you mean? And why are you saying that it is necessary?

eudaimonia,

Mark

Any commitment.

The prefrontal cortex doesn't activate the use of rational evaluation (between it and the dominant mode network or it and the executive function, or the executive function and the dominant mode network together - this is complicated), unless there is something in the future to think about.

To think about something in the future, you have to at least plan on being there.

Well so, if you want to be rational about anything, but you don't give it a context, you don't think about it rationally.
 
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Eudaimonist

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I don't agree that that is true.

We can think about the past or the present. We can also think about theory without any immediate concern for practice. We can seek truths simply because we are curious. It's not all about practical concerns for the future.

In any case, I don't see how such "commitments" matter at all to the authority of reason. You are only speaking of triggers to reason.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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FireDragon76

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It's demonstrable that an omnipotent God could have created mankind with free fill but without any desire to cause suffering.

That is as absurd as talking about square circles.
 
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Messy

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Originally Posted by ToddNotTodd
It's demonstrable that an omnipotent God could have created mankind with free fill but without any desire to cause suffering.
Well, demonstrate it then. Show me that God that can do that and let him prove it. Lol maybe he's asleep.
 
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Messy

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do you accept the premise that god is omnipotent?

He's all knowing, yes. He declares the end from the beginning, that's from Genesis and so on, I still believe He couldn't have known about satan and even if He could have known He couldn't have prevented it. He had knowledge by experience of evil, so that would mean He experienced evil when Lucifer rebelled.
 
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jacknife

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but he is all powerful?
 
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Messy

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Freedom and the Ability to Choose Evil | Reasonable Faith
I think it’s dubious that God could create a creature which has the ability freely to choose only the Good. Such an ability seems to belong properly only to a nature which has the property of moral perfection, a property that belongs to God alone. A free being which possesses a nature which is characterized by less than complete moral perfection (N.B. that moral perfection differs from mere innocence!) lacks the power to choose infallibly the Good. For God to create a being which has the ability to choose infallibly the Good would be, in effect, to create another God, which is logically impossible, since God is essentially uncaused; and, of course, omnipotence does not entail the ability to bring about the logically impossible.

Read more: Freedom and the Ability to Choose Evil | Reasonable Faith
 
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Messy

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but he is all powerful?

Yes He's got all power, but He's limited to do as He pleases by free will of man, if His will was done on earth everyone was saved and healed and Adam and Eve wouldn't have sinned in the first place.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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That doesn't make sense. He could create a being that, like himself, infallibly chooses to do good, but which lacks all the other properties that would characterise it as a deity. Obviously, since he is the one creating it, it wouldn't be a god; it would merely be like God in the ethical dimension. Christians already believe that we are like God in certain aspects; that we are created "in his image and likeness." They obviously don't take that to mean that God created other gods.

Even if he did create other gods, however, presumably this pantheon of demigods would be subordinate to him, given that he has the power to create (and presumably destroy) them. In any case, if infallibly choosing to do good means infallibly serving him and cooperating with each other, then it wouldn't matter anyway, as none of these new gods would challenge him or each other.
 
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