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Why would anyone want to be a Christian?

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Soothfish

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Augustine is a heretic now? Since when? He is venerated as "Saint" Augustine by the Catholics for a reason! Most Christians love to quote him, I've read enough posts in the theology forum to know! He even formulated the doctrine of Original Sin that Christians are so fond of. Without him and his Manichaean background, Christianity would not be the thing it is today!

Maybe Augustine did die for my sins. I'm not familiar with the particulars of his death. I can't comment on much else of his existence other than his impact on Christianity.

I don't recall the exact writing but I strongly doubt that Augustine described the original sin of infants as razeontherock described. It would be totally absurd to suggest that unbaptized infants who were unlucky enough to be born into gentile society and then killed by man or disease would be condemned to hell. It would make Christ's sacrifice completely irrelevant. It would turn human life into nothing but a really horrible game of chance.
 
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Grumpy Old Man

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It would turn human life into nothing but a really horrible game of chance.

It is though, even from a religious perspective. It's pure chance you were born in the country you were born and pure chance you were born during the time you were born. It's pure chance whether a child is born into wealth or poverty. What just God would deliberately assign someone to be born into war-torn, famine ravaged Somalia? It has to be random chance otherwise God is deliberately picking some to live life in wealthy abundance and others to live life in misery.
 
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razeontherock

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I don't recall the exact writing but I strongly doubt that Augustine described the original sin of infants as razeontherock described.

WAIT - I said NOTHING about any such thing. Much less described it. Got me confused with somebody else?
 
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underheaven

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Yeah there is evil in our hearts. The problem is, that our god is, in fact, worse than we are! Doesn't the Bible say to imitate god? Yet the Bible also shows god to be jealous, petty, angry, vindictive, judgmental and choosing which people to save and which to damn simply on a divine whim. It also says god is mainly concerned with his glory, not being good or loving to anyone or anything else. That sounds remarkably like selfishness. But we're condemned if we act the way I just described. Why is something right for god yet wrong for man?
God is none of those things. Here I speak from outside the bible. What you see in the bible is
the perception of an angry God by those who have broken the 'laws',or seen others do so. I believe
that God has set up the universe like a school ,with rules which we must work within .The internet
is also, a good metaphor for how we 'connect', or not ,to God. I think
a God concerned with 'glory' is an emphasis made by human beings.
God is first and foremost a 'loving God' a creative God, and a scientific God. The
first programme maker.

As a teacher [retired] I had experiences where pupils either loved me or hated me according to
whether they accepted the rules of the classroom. Where they either saw what I was trying to
do as positive and creative and fair ,or tyrannical, arrogant ,snobby,unfair etc depending on
where they were at. Since God has existed before material creation,and is always active in His
creation like a good teacher He wants us all to arrive' at our original ,pure and innocent state
as He created us,in perfect harmony with All of His vast creation .It is His creation,and only He
can make it work to bring about an eternal life for those who enter into 'harmony' with him and
His works.
We are given freedom from death,corruption, and ignorance in a loving relation ship with
Him if we follow Jesus.
Jesus came during the last period before the 'cycle 'closes' to make sure that we could complete and come to fruition before a new long cycle begins. On a more pragmatic level,I believe we are talking about the perfection which is needed to enter the highest level of evolution . All that we think, feel, in our minds and bodies is recorded...We have to be like little children ,spontaneous, loving ,without guile,willing to change ,to obey ,be humble helpful. While it is good to learn with the intellect which can only record material knowledge,[left brain] it is with the heart of a loving obedient child that we enter into a personal relationship with God .We can understand much of God's material world with the intellect,but without this personal 'relationship',we will stay outside,and will be subject to suffering,death,and all that entails .
Intellectual cunning,trying to outwit by being smart,knowing God in that way never works.We can fool ourselves and other people ,but not God.He has told us what to do,the Way the Truth and the Life.
I am a Christian who believes that our souls are old,old as God's
creation of them ,so we were not created when we were born.
Something to think about ,not so much for atheists as christians :D:idea:
 
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underheaven

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It is though, even from a religious perspective. It's pure chance you were born in the country you were born and pure chance you were born during the time you were born. It's pure chance whether a child is born into wealth or poverty. What just God would deliberately assign someone to be born into war-torn, famine ravaged Somalia? It has to be random chance otherwise God is deliberately picking some to live life in wealthy abundance and others to live life in misery.

Well as a Christian,fairly orthodox in other ways,I challenge that we are created when we are born :D:idea:
 
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seashale76

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Can someone tell me, please?

What were your reasons for becoming one?


Because you begin going through life thinking, this is it? What is my purpose for existing? Why am I here? I was dissatisfied. I was searching, but I didn't know what for. I had rejected Christianity. I was through with it. I left it for a vague deism with existentialist overtones. I was dreadfully angst ridden.

So, I started reading Church history on a whim (as I'm a history nut) and decided to visit an Orthodox Church. It was like being hit with a 2X4 when I walked through the door. The moment I walked in the church I knew it was what I was looking for. I don't know how to explain it. I kept going back.

Partaking of the sacraments only reinforces that 2X4 feeling.
 
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Buy Bologna

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Can someone tell me, please?

What were your reasons for becoming one?
My friend you need to ask this question to christians who are converted.
That will filter out a lot of the cliche answers.

Most people believe what they are raised to believe or in what the majority believe in that geographical area.

If you were born in the middle east, you would ask "what made you become muslim?"

However, IMO, if you are converted. That at least you have an open mind and are willing to except a different explanation other that "papa knows best."
 
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Agnus|Dei

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Being a former atheist (I was baptized Catholic as a baby), I think I can give some perspective to agnostics and atheists to why people believe in God and are religious.

When atheists conceptualize of believing, its a matter of rational thought, assessing observable evidence, and making a judgement.

Belief in God, came at least for me, through 'feeling'. It didn't come through rational argument, but rather crept up over through several months before it metaphorically exploded in my heart (I spent 5 days on the verge of crying experiencing grace)

So, I'll admit it, its not rational. But consider this, human beings are very limited in our perception. What we've managed to tease out through logical thinking is only the surface of a unimaginable vast existence. Being based on materially observable phenomenon, there are limits to what science can reveal to us.

Don't misunderstand me, I believe in evolution as much as an atheist. In fact, the science I've studied in college has made me even more convinced there is a God. No matter whether you look into the great cosmos, the smallest cell, or even just the table of elements, you'll find astonishing complexity where an outstanding number of factors are linked together to make a functioning reality. (I'm not arguing that science proves God exists)

(Turns out there are a higher proportions of believers among natural scientists than social scientists - make sense when you think about it. Ironically, I'm majoring in a social science)

That being said, opening myself to having faith in God has done wonders. It has opened a vast spiritual dimension to life that I have never had before. I was very big on community service and aid towards the poor before being consciously faithful, but now it has gained an even greater significance and reaped spiritual benefits in my life. Same goes with my long-term relationship.

So really, we're never going to convince you with words and arguments, it didn't convince me when I was an atheist. Its really something you have to feel. Once one does, one can realize what they've been missing out on. :)
 
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Jamesja

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(I agree that the god of Christianity is false, but that is hardly appropriate talk for a Christian message board. That is why I am agnostic. I don't know who or what god, or gods, is or are, but I do not believe they, he or she is as awful as the god of Christian Calvinism. I find the Greek gods of mythology kinder and less devilish than the god Christians say they worship. It is amazing how men always fashion gods in their own likeness. We've done that since day one and will probably continue to do so.)

I am new here so I don't know how to copy like the rest of you.

Yes indeed, you have fashioned God in your own image. That is why you hate him, you hate yourself.

God loves you anyway.

The first question you need to ask is; why all this self hate?

When you realize how much God loves you, even though you hate yourself,
you will love God.

You will also love yourself.
 
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underheaven

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Proving 'Him' out of my life; what does that mean? Jesus could be just a literary device as far as I know.

However, I have quite a sound prayer and meditation practise, and my experience of 'God' isn't Biblical; it's something within. I've recovered from alcoholism using a 12 Step process that is to remove the blockages from God; I've done a thorough and fearless moral inventory, I've 'confessed' it and saw my truth, and I've also made restitution to those I've harmed.

My daily practise consists of watching my behaviour, prayer and meditation, and practising compassion (steps 10, 11, and 12); I've been sober for nearly three years now, so my practise is solid, and I take it seriously and try not to take myself so seriously (Rule 62 ;)).

I have had what A.A. calls a 'spiritual awakening', however, just because I've had one does not mean that I should automatically assign that to 'Jesus' or an Abrahamic religion.

If I were to do so, that would feel more 'political' (because it's cultural) than spiritual.

I would say I already live life along 'Christian principles' (but these principles will be at the heart of any 'true' religion); such as love, tolerance, helping others; I have a spiritual community (Alcoholics Anonymous); but so far, I've not been convinced by Christianity.

I'm a seeker, so keep an open mind; I'll just continue to read some posts I guess, and ask questions.
Have you read what Jesus Himself says in Matthew ,Mark,Luke and John ? :pray:
 
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underheaven

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Yeah there is evil in our hearts. The problem is, that our god is, in fact, worse than we are! Doesn't the Bible say to imitate god? Yet the Bible also shows god to be jealous, petty, angry, vindictive, judgmental and choosing which people to save and which to damn simply on a divine whim. It also says god is mainly concerned with his glory, not being good or loving to anyone or anything else. That sounds remarkably like selfishness. But we're condemned if we act the way I just described. Why is something right for god yet wrong for man?
That is not what I learned as a young Catholic,not in any way.
As a rational intellectual I left all forms of religion for many years,reading ,
studying meeting people.Became quite an expert on world religions.Am a believer in Christ as
a loving God and my saviour. Jesus came in the last AGE of a cycle of time in astronomy.
Since He came the world has grown from a population of 250,000,000 to 7 billion.
He said He would raise souls up from Hell .
If you read 'The Protestant Inquisition ' on the internet,you will see that many so
called Christians were really evil ,wicked people,and are nothing like Christ.:crossrc:
 
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SolomonVII

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Yeah there is evil in our hearts. The problem is, that our god is, in fact, worse than we are! Doesn't the Bible say to imitate god? Yet the Bible also shows god to be jealous, petty, angry, vindictive, judgmental and choosing which people to save and which to damn simply on a divine whim. It also says god is mainly concerned with his glory, not being good or loving to anyone or anything else. That sounds remarkably like selfishness. But we're condemned if we act the way I just described. Why is something right for god yet wrong for man?

RE Jealous:
Assuming that you are a man, and your best girl dumps you for somebody that has a bigger car, or something like that, I would say that if you do not feel something like jealously, you do not love her in the first place.
Many girls, and probably men too, play that kind of game, seeing if their beau gets jealous to test their love.

RE Vindictive:
Vindictive does not really describe God as much as justice does. Again it comes down to love.Your best girl is walking down the street, I come up and rip here dress, of course you are going to bust me in the chops. You walk along as if nothing happens, and the girl has a pretty good indication that you don't care.
 
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seekingagnostic32

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(I agree that the god of Christianity is false, but that is hardly appropriate talk for a Christian message board. That is why I am agnostic. I don't know who or what god, or gods, is or are, but I do not believe they, he or she is as awful as the god of Christian Calvinism. I find the Greek gods of mythology kinder and less devilish than the god Christians say they worship. It is amazing how men always fashion gods in their own likeness. We've done that since day one and will probably continue to do so.)

I am new here so I don't know how to copy like the rest of you.

Yes indeed, you have fashioned God in your own image. That is why you hate him, you hate yourself.

God loves you anyway.

The first question you need to ask is; why all this self hate?

When you realize how much God loves you, even though you hate yourself,
you will love God.

You will also love yourself.

I don't hate THE God. I hate this man-made frankenstein monster that we have made in our own image - this... "idol" that represents all the power, corruption, jealousy, anger, hatred, lust and obsession of humanity.

THE God cannot be as awful as most religious describe it to be.

Sadly, I agree with you... the Greek and Norse gods are far kinder than the god of christians! Not saying they are real, but even those gods seem more loving than the god who creates humans just to torture forever in hell.
 
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seekingagnostic32

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