Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

Oblio said:

And you cannot make a day unHoly just because your belief claims it is not. The orthodox belief is that Christ Sanctified the Eighth & First day by His Resurrection. IMO, calling it unHoly is to blashpheme the work of Christ on the Cross.

Click to expand...

God through His inspired word has told us that the 7th day was sanctified {made holy} by God. Where does the EO find where God has told us that He Sanctified the "8th and 1st day" as Holy.

wanderphilos said:

Well isn't that subjective? Maybe making sure your family has enough to eat is good.
Maybe going to the zoo with your kids and spending time with them is good.
Maybe taking care of your house (or donkey in a well) is good.

What is good?

Click to expand...

What did Jesus do on the Sabbath?

If we follow the example set by Jesus we will not run into too many problems.

wanderphilos said:

Well isn't that subjective? Maybe making sure your family has enough to eat is good.
Maybe going to the zoo with your kids and spending time with them is good.
Maybe taking care of your house (or donkey in a well) is good.

What is good?

Click to expand...

Can those things be reasonably done on another day of the week? If they can't be or the donkey would suffer then.....

Luke 14:5 Then he asked them, "If one of you has a son or an ox that falls into a well on the Sabbath day, will you not immediately pull him out?"

Would you say your son should suffer aswell?

wanderphilos said:

Luke 14:5 Then he asked them, "If one of you has a son or an ox that falls into a well on the Sabbath day, will you not immediately pull him out?"

Would you say your son should suffer aswell?

Click to expand...

No God does not want the Donkey of Ox or your Son to suffer. Are you saying pulling them out of a well is not doing well on the Sabbath?

Mat 12:12 .... Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

wanderphilos said:

Luke 14:5 Then he asked them, "If one of you has a son or an ox that falls into a well on the Sabbath day, will you not immediately pull him out?"

Would you say your son should suffer aswell?

Click to expand...

There's a faith issue here. Just as many Christians have discovered that nine-tenths of their money with faith and the obedience of giving the tenth to God goes as far as the ten tenths without faith and obedience, so many Sabbath-keepers discover that six-sevenths of their working day gives enough to live on, whereas working seven days a week does not. Of course, emergency situations are one thing, as Jesus mentioned; but really, how often is someone threatened with literal starvation because they refused to work on the Sabbath yet were willing to work the other six days? (That's a constitutional issue in the US too: if an employer required his Sabbath-keeping employee to work on Saturday or get fired, one could make a case for religious discrimination from the "free-exercise" clause of the Constitution's First Amendment.) As with the other commands, where the LORD commands, He provides the strength and resources to enable us to obey. Praise His Name!

Where does the EO find where God has told us that He Sanctified the "8th and 1st day" as Holy.

Click to expand...

In the Bible and the rest of the word of God.

Oblio said:

In the Bible and the rest of the word of God.

Click to expand...

Can you give us chapter and verse, please?

Everyone have their own spiritual preferences and this is only between a believer and God. Christians chose denominations by following their conscience (Holy Spirit), beliefs and personal worship preferences. There is NO perfect church. No Christians are perfect. There is only one perfect person and that is Jesus Christ.

Be zealous for God but at the same time, you have to understand that being zealous without sensitivity can cause an unbeliever not to turn to God. There are Christians who are zealous for the Lord and forget the sensitivity of humanity. Trust God to use us they way He intended to use us.

There are two ways looking at the Ten Commandments (in my opinion)
1. For those who are without Christ in our hearts, if we broke ONE law... we broke them all. We all are sinners and we need to be saved.

2. For those who are WITH Christ in our hearts, the Ten Commandments are about LOVE. Christians do not look at the Ten Commandments as laws but Grace of Love. We are to LOVE God first (first 4 commandments) and we are to love one another (last 6 commandments).

jochanaan said:

Can you give us chapter and verse, please?

Click to expand...

You can start by reading the entire Bible, for it's central theme revolves around the Resurrection of Christ, not the Sabbath. If the very topic of the Bible is not Holy, then I would suggest that you have missed the very point of the Gospel given to us by the word of God. If that is not enough, there is the rest of Holy Tradition which further brings us the word of God to affirm the Holiness of the weekly Feast of the Resurrection.

Oblio said:

You can start by reading the entire Bible, for it's central theme revolves around the Resurrection of Christ...

Click to expand...

I have read the entire Bible. Indeed, I thank and praise God regularly, if not daily, for the Resurrection! And in gratefulness and love towards Jesus my Savior, I willingly obey His commands, as well as I am able, one of which involves keeping the seventh day holy--not the eighth. Sabbathkeeping in no way diminishes the Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth the Lamb of God, God's Son, our Lord and Savior and coming King.

BrightCandle said:

Exactly, Jesus kept the Sabbath even in death, by resting from sundown Friday till sundown Saturday, and didn't rise until the Sabbath was over, early the 1st day of week. And it is very important to note, that Jesus gave no command to the disciples that the Sabbath was changed when He meet with them at various times after the resurrection.

Click to expand...

Why is it that people will believe the nine of the commandments and not all of them?

Why drop out the 4th C.

Oblio said:

In the Bible and the rest of the word of God.

Click to expand...

This issue could be settled in one moment of time.

Show us where in the Bible that we can find the text that says to keep the day of the resurrection holy?

Simple enough question if one has the answer.

People just don't drop it and continue to ask "WHY"??

They believe one method and we believe another method. I don't judge those who keep the Sabbath on Saturdays. If their conscience tells them to have Sabbath on Saturdays, AMEN and Glory to God.

If another group of people's conscience tells them to have their Sabbath every 7th day, AMEN and Glory to God.

I am getting tired by some extremists who won't let go of this issue and be graceful. Transfer their frustations on this issue to God and allow the Holy Spirit to take over.

Romans 14:5-6
One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord.

James 3:2
We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check.

Jude 1:16
are grumblers and faultfinders.

Romans 14:10
You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.

1 Corinthians 4:4
My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.

1 Corinthians 10:28-29
But if anyone says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake —the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience?

Hebrews 10:30
For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people."

James 2:4
have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

James 4:11
Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.

James 4:12
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?

James 5:9
Don't grumble against each other, brothers, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door!

Either let it go so you can have true fellowship with other Christians that follow their own Sabbath even you don't agree with

or

treat them like enemies and continue to judge them for not keeping the Sabbath your conscience tells you to believe in.

Oh yeah... this is the same that goes with the "drinking alcohol" issue.

This issue could be settled in one moment of time.

Show us where in the Bible that we can find the text that says to keep the day of the resurrection holy?

Simple enough question if one has the answer.

Click to expand...

I asked for a text, you gave me everything but the text that says the first day of the week is now the Sabbath.

Nothing in your texts to support Sundaing worship.

JimfromOhio said:

People just don't drop it and continue to ask "WHY"??

They believe one method and we believe another method. I don't judge those who keep the Sabbath on Saturdays. If their conscience tells them to have Sabbath on Saturdays, AMEN and Glory to God.

If another group of people's conscience tells them to have their Sabbath every 7th day, AMEN and Glory to God.

I am getting tired by some extremists who won't let go of this issue and be graceful. Transfer their frustations on this issue to God and allow the Holy Spirit to take over.

Romans 14:5-6
One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord.

James 3:2
We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check.

Jude 1:16
are grumblers and faultfinders.

Romans 14:10
You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.

1 Corinthians 4:4
My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.

1 Corinthians 10:28-29
But if anyone says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake —the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience?

Hebrews 10:30
For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people."

James 2:4
have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

James 4:11
Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.

James 4:12
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?

James 5:9
Don't grumble against each other, brothers, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door!

Either let it go so you can have true fellowship with other Christians that follow their own Sabbath even you don't agree with

or

treat them like enemies and continue to judge them for not keeping the Sabbath your conscience tells you to believe in.

Oh yeah... this is the same that goes with the "drinking alcohol" issue.

Click to expand...

wanderphilos said:

Luke 14:5 Then he asked them, "If one of you has a son or an ox that falls into a well on the Sabbath day, will you not immediately pull him out?"

Would you say your son should suffer aswell?

Click to expand...

Jesus did not condemn people for doing good on the Sabbath.

Cliff2, jochanaan and BrightCandle,

Why is it in regards to the Sabbath that you suddenly choose to stare yourself blind against the "chapter and verse" of the Bible, and ignore its Spirit as if there were no such thing and as if it didn't influence your thinking about other matters? Did Jesus also send the Spirit out among his flock to "remind and teach" them, or just his recorded words? How did Christians manage to believe Paul's words, do you think? Which chapters and verses did he quote to prove God commanded circumcision to be discontinued, if that's all you would have accepted as his audience?

You have been incited against Christians who have a different understanding of the Sabbath, the same way Christians were sometimes incited against Jews. But while you are quick to point out anti-Semitism, and to see it as a reason for this "heresy", as Dr Bacchiocchi and Ellen White did, you are blind to your own judgements, even though they are having exactly the same effect on the unity of genuine Christians.

You demand texts to prove strawmen - the strawman in this case being that Jesus came to fulfil the law with more laws, "commands" as you call them. Another strawman is that you keep the 4th commandment better on the Saturday than anybody could keep it on the Sunday or any other day of the week - as if your memory of the heavenly Sabbath is better on Saturday than someone who remembers it with exactly the same spirit on any other day.

The clear command Christ gave was to love one another (John 13:34), and Paul affirmed this: "for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law" (Rom. 13:8). You love to quote Jesus: "If you love me, you will obey what I command", but I haven't seen one of you finish with his words: "This is my command: Love each other" (John 15:17).

It seems you wish to make the Sabbath a stumbling block for people who wish to enter God's kingdom, the same way the Pharisees did. As if you cannot - may not - love those who don't keep the Sabbath as you do, as if they have to enter God's rest by way of a particular day, and not by way of a particular person: Jesus Christ. You deny that it pertains to salvation, but your actions say something else. Midnightcry said something earlier: "I think this will be a dividing issue in the church in the future." Only if you want it to; only if you think it should. Only if you drive it like a wedge between Christians (calling one side "apostate" and even "children of Babylon", which is what Ellen White believed, like Joseph Smith and other restorationists). The implications to those who you say are not keeping the whole law are clear, even if it's hard for you to say it out loud. The purpose of the law was to discern between those who are guilty or innocent, between the righteous and the condemned. But if your claims are sincere - that our salvation is not at stake - then the issue isn't the law at all, and it is a question of hearts and minds: how we understand the significance of what Christ did and consistently apply it to our lives. Then the motivation for driving in this wedge isn't "the law" or your righteousness and our alleged apostasy, but a simple lack of trust - and I would even say lack of faith - in the incredible and complete efficacy of God's grace.

Like I said before: the moral content of the Sabbath is Christ, the One who gives rest to those who are burdened. That is something that not a Sunday, not a Saturday, nor a whole weekend or months of rest can provide to someone who is pursued by sin and condemned under the law. Israel could rest from their slavery in Egypt, in recognition of God's grace, but they could not rest from sin. You would have us commemorate their rest, as if God never provided something better and everlasting, a Sabbath not contained in any chapter or verse or law, but that every chapter and verse and law in the Bible sought to achieve.

I'm not making a call for mindless tolerance. Their is certainly no place for lawlessness in Christ. But for you who emphasize the Saturday as an everlasting Sabbath, and who define holiness in old covenant terms, I ask to dispel the appearance of hypocrisy: where is the "chapter and verse" that commands you to stop keeping every command that was ever given to Israel for keeping the Sabbath (or any of the other 613 laws, for that matter)?

Oblio said:

In the Bible and the rest of the word of God.

Click to expand...

OH really? Could you show me where God's word says the 1st day is Sanctified or made Holy? Just some verses please to back up what you are saying would be nice. Something like Gen. 2:3 Thanks.

NLT Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day and declared it Holy, because it was the day when he rested from his work of creation.

I observe the Sabbath, just not on the day others may approve of. I don't care what they think. In fact, the Bible explicitly tells us not to care:


Col 3:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.


In my book, I simply rearrange the Julian calendar to put Sunday at the end, after Saturday. There, it's the 7th day. End of story.