Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

kw5kw · Mar 31, 2006

To follow the next explanation, please to either one of these web pages. (Thanks)
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0002065.html and also a larger chart at http://www.12x30.net/origin.html

NOTE: The seven-day week originated in ancient Mesopotamia and became part of the Roman calendar in A.D. 321. The names of the days are based on the seven celestial bodies (the Sun, the Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, and Saturn), believed at that time to revolve around Earth and influence its events. Most of Western Europe adopted the Roman nomenclature. The Germanic languages substituted Germanic equivalents for the names of four of the Roman gods: Tiw, the god of war, replaced Mars; Woden, the god of wisdom, replaced Mercury; Thor, the god of thunder, replaced Jupiter; and Frigg, the goddess of love, replaced Venus.

Question: Did God name the days of the week?
Answer: He didnt, man did! Man used the Latin language to name the days of the week after the Roman Gods. Man named Sunday (Solis in Latin ) for the Sun, and Monday(Lunae) for the Moon. Tuesday (Martis) was named for Mars the Roman god of war. Wednesday (Mercurii) was named for Mercury the messenger god for the Romans. Thursday (Jovis) was named for Jupiter the Greek god who was king of the gods. Friday (Veneris) was named for Venus the Roman god of Love. And, finally Saturday (Saturni) was named for Saturn the Roman god of the Harvest. German language names were substituted for the Latin names for Monday, and Friday. The Old English names were used to identify the Latin (Roman) names for Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday.
Question: Why then is any one particular day of the pagan week considered the Holy day of God?
Answer: "Centuries of the Christian era passed away before Sunday was observed by the Christian church as a Sabbath. History does not furnish us with a single proof or indication that it was so observed previous to the sabbatical edict of Constantine in 321 A.D." [William Domville Examination of Six Texts]

"In the year 325, Sylvester, Bishop of Rome (AD 314-337), officially changed the title of the first day, calling it the Lord's day." [1]

Question: What day, then, should we stop and worship our Lord God?
Answer: After working six days, you take your day of rest. It does not matter if you work the six days from Thursday to Tuesday, then Wednesday would be your seventh day, your day of rest.

Proof: A simple search of any version of Strong's Concordance (printed form or internet) will show that not once in the Bible is any day of the week mentioned. Not Monday, not Tuesday, or Wednesday. Neither is Thursday or Friday mentioned! Saturday or Sunday are never named. Not one of them, not once! Even our Good Friday is never mentioned in the New Testament. This one simple fact only goes to prove that God did not name the days of the week!

What God did mention in many, many locations is the Sabbath. (A simple search in Strong's Concordance[2] for Sabbath will once again back me up, Sabbath occurs 137 times in 116 verses). Heres the one verse that says it all:
Exd xvi:26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, [which is] the Sabbath, in it there shall be none. This is about working 6 days and resting on the seventh day or Sabbath day.

Question: What is the Sabbath to us (Christians)?
Answer: It (the Sabbath) is the seventh day after working six. The Sabbath is The Day of Rest. If one works six days then he should rest the on the seventh day, the Sabbath.

Now why? Why should we work six days and rest on the 7th? The reason is so simple; He created the world in 6 days and He rested on the 7th!

Gen ii:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Gen ii:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Notice in Genesis ii:2-3 He has not named the seventh day as the Sabbath, He simply refers to it as the seventh day. He did not name the Sabbath until Moses was leading them out of Egypt and they had nothing to eat except the Manna that they were picking up.

Exd xvi:22 Now on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. When all the leaders of the congregation came and told Moses,
New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation

Exd xvi:23 then he said to them, "This is what the LORD meant: Tomorrow is a Sabbath observance, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. Bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over put aside to be kept until morning."
New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation

So, heres the first time that the term Sabbath had been used in the Bible. It (Sabbath) was never mentioned in Genesis! It was simply the seventh day!

At this time, Moses and the rest of the Hebrews never mentioned any day of the week, ie: Monday, Tuesday etc. In fact, the days of the week are never mentioned in the Bible. Just Six days for work. Rest for everyone and everything on the seventh (Sabbath). Then it would start all over again, just as it does now.

When Moses received the 10 commandments (Exodus xx: 1-17) God actually included the Sabbath as one of the 10.
Exd xx:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Exd xx:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work (NIV)
Exd xx:10 But the seventh day [is] the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:
Exd xx:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

It is after this that we find that God does indeed intend to enforce the commandment for the Sabbath day.
Exd xxxi:14 Ye shall keep the Sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death : for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exd xxxi:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh [is] the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth [any] work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Did He mean it?
Num xv:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the Sabbath day.
Num xv:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
Num xv:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
Num xv:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
Num xv:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

[1] Lucium, Historia Ecclesiastica, p. 739

[2] one can be found at: http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

kw5kw · Mar 31, 2006

Now Jesus was reprimanded for work on the Sabbath.

Luk vi:1 And it came to pass on the second Sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing [them] in [their] hands.
This was Also in Matthew and Mark

Luk 6:2 And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?

Luk 6:5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Luk 6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?

Jesus did not abolish the old laws about the Sabbath here, not about keeping it, just about what is right to do on the Sabbath. He never said: dont keep the Sabbath.

I think God did intend for people to honor the Sabbath! Back on track

Exo 31:6 And I, behold, I have given with him Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan: and in the hearts of all that are wise hearted I have put wisdom, that they may make all that I have commanded thee;
And in:
Exo 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
Exo 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.
Lev 16:31 It [shall be] a Sabbath 07676 of rest 07677 unto you, and ye shall afflict 06031 your souls 05315, by a statute 02708 for ever 05769. (blueletter bible.org)
And,
Lev 24:8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.
(blueletter bible.org)
(while this is talking about the burning of the sacrificial lamp, it is still talking about doing this on a Sabbath day forever)

Sounds to me like God means forever to me. Isnt the word everlasting such a powerful word with such a powerful meaning?

But never mind me, heres what Matthew Henry said about the Sabbath in Exodus chapter 35:
Here is, I. A strict command for the sanctification of the Sabbath day, verse 1317. The law of the Sabbath had been given them before any other law, by was of preparation (ch. xvi:23); it had been inserted in the body of the moral law, in the fourth commandment; it had been annexed to the judicial law (ch. Xxiii:12); and here it is added to the first part of the ceremonial law, because the observance of the Sabbath is indeed the hem and hedge of the whole law; where no conscience is made of that, farewell both godliness and honesty; for, in the moral law, it stands in the midst between the two tables. Some suggest that it comes in here upon another account. Orders were now given that a tabernacle should be set up and furnished for the service of God with all possible expedition; but lest they should think that the nature of the work, and the haste that was required, would justify them in working at it on Sabbath days, that they might get it done the sooner, this caution is seasonably inserted, Verily, or nevertheless, my Sabbaths you shall keep. Though they must hasten the work, yet they must not make more haste than good speed; they must not break the law of the Sabbath in their haste: even tabernacle-work must give way to the Sabbath-rest; so jealous is God for the honor of his Sabbaths. Observe what is here said concerning the Sabbath day.
1. The nature, meaning, and intention, of the Sabbath, by the declaration of which God puts an honour upon it, and teaches us to value it. Divers things are here said of the Sabbath. (1.) It is a sign between me and you (v. 13), and again, v. 17. The institution of the Sabbath was a great instance of Gods favour to them, and a sign that he had distinguished them from all other people; and their religious observance of the Sabbath was a great instance of their duty and obedience to him. God, by sanctifying this day among them, let them know that he sanctified them, and set them apart for himself and his service; otherwise he would not have revealed to them his holy Sabbaths, to be the support of religion among them. Or it may refer to the law concerning the Sabbath, Keep my Sabbaths, that you may know that I the Lord do sanctify you. Note, If God by his grace incline our hearts to keep the law of the fourth commandment, it will be an evidence of a good work wrought in us by his Spirit. If we sanctify Gods day, it is a sign between him and us that he has sanctified our hearts: hence it is the character of the blessed man that he keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, Isa. 56:2. The Jews, by observing one day in seven, after six days labour, testified and declared that they worshipped the God who made the world in six days, and rested the seventh; and so distinguished themselves from other nations, who, having first lost the Sabbath, which was instituted to be a memorial of the creation, by degrees lost the knowledge of the Creator, and gave that honour to the creature which was due to him alone. (2.) It is holy unto you (v. 14), that is, "It is designed for your benefit as well as for Gods honour; the Sabbath was made for man. Or, "It shall be accounted holy by you, and shall so be observed, and you shall look upon it a sacrilege to profane it. (3.) It is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord, v. 15. It is separated from common use, and designed for the honour and service of God, and by the observance of it we are taught to rest from worldly pursuits and the service of the flesh, and to devote ourselves, and all we are, have, and can do, to Gods glory. (4.) It was to be observed throughout their generations, in every age, for a perpetual covenant. v. 16. This was to be one of the most lasting tokens of that covenant which was between God and Israel.
2. The law of the Sabbath. They must keep it (verse 13, 14, 16), keep it as a treasure, as a trust, observe it and preserve it, keep it from polluting it, keep it up as a sign between God and them, keep it and never part with it. The Gentiles had anniversary-feasts, to the honor of their gods; but it was peculiar to the Jews to have a weekly festival; this therefore they must carefully observe.
3. The reason of the Sabbath; for Gods laws are not only backed with the highest authority, but supported with the best reason. Gods own example is the great reason, v. 17. As the work of creation is worthy to be thus commemorated, so the great Creator is worthy to be thus imitated, by a holy rest, the seventh day, after six days labor, especially since we hope, in further conformity to the same example, shortly to rest with him from all our labors.
4. The penalty to be inflicted for the breach of this law: "Every one that defiled the Sabbath, by doing any work therein but works of piety and mercy, shall be cut off from among his people (v. 14); he shall surely be put to death. v. 15. The magistrate must cut him off the sword of justice if the crime can be proved; if it cannot, or if the magistrate be remiss, and do not do his duty, God will take the work into his own hands, and cut him off by a stroke from heaven, and his family shall be rooted out of Israel. Note, The contempt and profanation of the Sabbath day is an iniquity to be punished by the judges; and, if men do not punish it, God will, here or hereafter, unless it be repented of.

JimfromOhio · Mar 31, 2006

kw5kw

Lots of good information here

Let's hope that people will let this go and stick with their own relationship with God on their own "Sabbath system" whether it is on Saturday or on the 7th day. Let God deal with us directly in our hearts.

kw5kw · Mar 31, 2006

But to prove that the Sabbath could and did move around, and there were even whole years that were considered to be sacred:
[Lev 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
Lev 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
Lev 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.
· This could be an ‘extra’ day, an holiday if you may, for the feast

Lev 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.
· Another holiday (feast)

Lev 23:39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.
· Another feast

Lev 25:4 But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.
Lev 25:6 And the sabbath of the land shall be meat for you; for thee, and for thy servant, and for thy maid, and for thy hired servant, and for thy stranger that sojourneth with thee,

Question: There are some who say Jesus’ death did away with the covenants and laws of the old Testament.

Answer: It’s as simple as two good examples, the First is about what Jesus did in the temple and his response compared to an application between the Ten Commandments and the original covenant between God and Abraham.

Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Joh 7:22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.
( you had to, by law of the first covenant, circumcise on the 8th day after birth)
God talking to Abraham:
Gen 17:9 God said further to Abraham, "Now as for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations.
New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation
Gen 17:10 "This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised.
New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation
Joh 7:22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.
Gen 17:12 — And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which [is] not of thy seed. (blueletter bible.org)

If the 8th day of the life of the boy falls on a Sabbath, then he still must be circumcised. This is what Jesus is in reference to.

Joh 7:23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

The first covenant with Abraham was NOT replaced by a second covenant…ie: the 4th commandment of the 10 Commandments. Therefore, we can draw this conclusion. A new covenant does not always replace the one before it. Unless, it is specifically repealed, then it is still in effect.

I can illustrate this a bit further: God’s covenant with Noah, not to flood the earth evermore and to show that promise with a rainbow has not been replaced by any other covenant. We have visual evidence of this today after a rainstorm.
Gen 9:10 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
Gen 9:10 And with every living creature that [is] with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
Gen 9:11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
Gen 9:12 And God said, This [is] the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that [is] with you, for perpetual generations:
Gen 9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
Gen 9:14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
Gen 9:15 And I will remember my covenant, which [is] between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
Gen 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that [is] upon the earth.
Gen 9:17 And God said unto Noah, This [is] the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that [is] upon the earth.

So, we have visual proof, after rainstorms, that the covenants of the Old Testament are still being enforced, to this very day!

There are those who say that Heb 4:1-11 will repeal the Mosaic Laws of the Old Testament. I quote Matthew Henry on his view of Hebrews 4:3-4 “…(2.) From God’s continuing the observance of the Sabbath, after the fall, and the revelation of a Redeemer. They were to keep the seventh day a holy Sabbath to the Lord, therein praising him who had raised them up out of nothing by creating power, and praying to him that he would create them anew by his Spirit of grace, and direct their faith to the promised Redeemer and restorer of all things, by which faith they find rest in their souls. …” (http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1103748759-1488.html)

And,
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. (NIV)
Heb 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God. (NIV)

Matthew Henry on Hebrews 4:8-9 “1.] A rest of grace, and comfort, and holiness, in the gospel state. This is the rest wherewith the Lord Jesus, our Joshua, causes weary souls and awakened consciences to rest, and this is the refreshing. [2.] A rest in glory, the everlasting sabbatism of heaven, which is the repose and perfection of nature and grace too, where the people of God shall enjoy the end of their faith and the object of all their desires.”

Heb 4:10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirt, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

BrightCandle · Mar 31, 2006

Nightfire said:
Not the Saturday, not the Sunday, nor any other day of an earth-week, but the Sabbath will remain after the heavens have disappeared and the elements had been destroyed by fire. Because long after we stopped having calendars, we will still have Christ.

Isaiah 66: 23, blows away your whole concept of a "Sabbath age", and the idea that the 7th day Sabbath will be not be literally keep in the new earth.

verse 23, Isaiah 66

"From new moon to new moon,
and from Sabbath to Sabbath,
all flesh shall come to worship before me,
declares the LORD."

BrightCandle · Mar 31, 2006

kw5kw said:
But to prove that the Sabbath could and did move around, and there were even whole years that were considered to be sacred.

The answer to that claim is that the extra ceremonian sabbaths did move around, but not the 7th Sabbath of the fourth commandment. When Jesus was crucified it was a "high day" because a ceremonial sabbath fell on the day as the 7th day Sabbath.

Don't try to complicate the issue with a lot of "mumbo jumbo" regarding the ceremonial sabbaths, remember, they were added after sin entered the world, the 7th day Sabbath was there before sin entered the human race. Therefore it was not ceremonial and it was not a "shadow" things to come, as was the sacrificial system.

kw5kw · Mar 31, 2006

JimfromOhio said:
Lots of good information here

Let's hope that people will let this go and stick with their own relationship with God on their own "Sabbath system" whether it is on Saturday or on the 7th day. Let God deal with us directly in our hearts.

My pastor of our church has people who work on our 'week-ends' (Saturday and Sunday). Their sabbath is on Wednesday, so they go to Wednesday night services--that is 'their Sabbath', their 'Lord's Day."

I am at rest with the fact that God knows all and understands.

Russ

kw5kw · Mar 31, 2006

BrightCandle said:
The answer to that claim is that the extra ceremonian sabbaths did move around, but the 7th Sabbath of the fourth commandment. When Jesus was crucified it was a "high day" because a ceremonial sabbath fell on the day as the 7th day Sabbath.

Don't try to complicate the issue with a lot of "mumbo jumbo" regarding the ceremonial sabbaths, remember, they were added after sin entered the world, the 7th day Sabbath was there before sin entered the human race. Therefore it was not ceremonial and it was not a "shadow" things to come, as was the sacrificial system.

I might remind you that sticking to ceremony was what the Pharasees were guilty of...

I submit for your prayerful consideration:

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were hungry, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was hungry, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless
Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

shadowmoses · Mar 31, 2006

kw5kw

I beleive the sabbath day is saturday.I am a catholic but yet I hold strong to the sabbath day being saturday.

I can only see it is because of these resions there is a direct commandment that ordains its observance .In the new testament it is widely perceived that the sabbath commmandment was reestablished and changed to sunday but I have trouble believing that because I've read the bible many times and sunday never is ordained as the sabbath.

what I can't deny is this,that's why sunday observance is so absurd.
Looking through history we see early christianity observing the sabbath day on saturday for 4 centuries until the day was changed to sunday by the catholic church.If we can consider this also after jesus died as referred to in the bible the apostles were still keeping it on saturday.The books were written long after they occured yet they always distiguish between the 2 days.

So I ask you to read the bible with an open mind.I have written proof of confessions by all the major churches in the world to accepting that the sabbath day really is saturday.It is your choice to beleive it or not.Its not a question of sunday being the truth its a question of you choosing to follow the truth of saturday.

BrightCandle · Mar 31, 2006

kw5kw said:
My pastor of our church has people who work on our 'week-ends' (Saturday and Sunday). Their sabbath is on Wednesday, so they go to Wednesday night services--that is 'their Sabbath', their 'Lord's Day."

I am at rest with the fact that God knows all and understands.

Russ

Your pastor allows members to break God's law, that is sin, therefore, your pastor has compromised his calling to "preach the word in season, and out of season."

stone · Mar 31, 2006

in the wilderness the hebrews picked and ate the food of the angels that was given to them by father everyday but one day. That day today is fathers blessed day.

BrightCandle · Mar 31, 2006

kw5kw said:
I might remind you that sticking to ceremony was what the Pharasees were guilty of...

I submit for your prayerful consideration:

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were hungry, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was hungry, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless
Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Yes, indeed, Jesus did rebuke the Pharisees, but not for keeping the wrong day, Sabbath, but for adding man made traditions to the Sabbath that God never made, that was the issue. Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath in a way, that God wanted it to be kept. But, He kept it on the 7th day, not the 1st, and never told anyone not to keep the 7th Sabbath just because the Jews corrupted the way they kept it.

Matthew 12, shows how Jesus tried to have the Pharisees look at how their traditions had made the Sabbath a burden instead of a blessing. The SDA church understands this principle, that is why humanitarian needs like caring for the sick are righteous acts of mercy that do not break the principle of the Sabbath. Secular work that can be done on the other six days were to be laid aside, to allow for 24 hours of fellowship, worship, caring the sick and the poor, etc.,etc.

Cliff2 · Mar 31, 2006

shadowmoses said:
kw5kw

I beleive the sabbath day is saturday.I am a catholic but yet I hold strong to the sabbath day being saturday.

I can only see it is because of these resions there is a direct commandment that ordains its observance .In the new testament it is widely perceived that the sabbath commmandment was reestablished and changed to sunday but I have trouble believing that because I've read the bible many times and sunday never is ordained as the sabbath.

what I can't deny is this,that's why sunday observance is so absurd.
Looking through history we see early christianity observing the sabbath day on saturday for 4 centuries until the day was changed to sunday by the catholic church.If we can consider this also after jesus died as referred to in the bible the apostles were still keeping it on saturday.The books were written long after they occured yet they always distiguish between the 2 days.

So I ask you to read the bible with an open mind.I have written proof of confessions by all the major churches in the world to accepting that the sabbath day really is saturday.It is your choice to beleive it or not.Its not a question of sunday being the truth its a question of you choosing to follow the truth of saturday.

You said you are "Catholic", now do you mean Roman Catholic?

JimfromOhio · Mar 31, 2006

This is Law versus Grace thread regardless of the topic.

Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:19-21
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

stone · Mar 31, 2006

law vs. grace is a concept invented by satan.

you are saying that all of those before Y-shua died, had no grace for obeying his word?

Ge 2:3And G-d blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which G-d created and made.

edit to add, replace died with rose

JimfromOhio · Mar 31, 2006

stone said:
law vs. grace is a concept invented by satan.

you are saying that all of those before Y-shua died, had no grace for obeying his word?

Ge 2:3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

edit to add, replace died with rose

God always unites and the devil always divides. We need to focus on our spiritual warfare as Ephesians 6:12 says "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." Pride magnifies the faults of other Christians and diminishes their graces, while it diminishes the faults and magnifies the graces of its subject. If zealousism indicates godliness, then Christian virtues should be used. In 1 Corinthians 13:5 says "Love does not act unbecomingly"; which means a Christian should demonstrate godly love and have real credibility.

stone · Mar 31, 2006

JimfromOhio said:
God always unites and the devil always divides. We need to focus on our spiritual warfare as Ephesians 6:12 says "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." Pride magnifies the faults of other Christians and diminishes their graces, while it diminishes the faults and magnifies the graces of its subject. If zealousism indicates godliness, then Christian virtues should be used. In 1 Corinthians 13:5 says "Love does not act unbecomingly"; which means a Christian should demonstrate godly love and have real credibility.

shabbat is about to begin, chat with you guys l8r

kw5kw · Mar 31, 2006

Cliff2 said:
You said you are "Catholic", now do you mean Roman Catholic?

Look at my post... did my post said 'catholic' or 'Catholic'

catholic, with a small 'c' stands for the universal church that Christ sanctioned.

Catholic, with a capitol 'C' stands for the Roman Catholic Church

jochanaan · Mar 31, 2006

JimfromOhio said:
This is Law versus Grace thread regardless of the topic...

Let me make sure I understand you. (Yes, I know we were going to "leave it there" last night, but I feel I must respond to this.) Are you saying that, if we keep the Sabbath literally, we have fallen from grace? If so, I say, as I have said multiple times, that I do not deny Grace at all, because I do not trust in my Sabbathkeeping or anything else I can do to save myself. It is not an attempt to gain God's grace; it is a response to grace already received. How then do I deny grace? Faith itself, as James says, is proven by its works--not dry legalism, but positive expressions of love toward God and our fellow humans. The Sabbath is my way of telling God I love him. I can't say it any plainer than that.

And yes, the Law of Love and Grace is more important than Sabbathkeeping. Should I give up my understanding of the Sabbath for that reason?

JimfromOhio · Mar 31, 2006

jochanaan said:
Let me make sure I understand you. (Yes, I know we were going to "leave it there" last night, but I feel I must respond to this.) Are you saying that, if we keep the Sabbath literally, we have fallen from grace? If so, I say, as I have said multiple times, that I do not deny Grace at all, because I do not trust in my Sabbathkeeping or anything else I can do to save myself. It is not an attempt to gain God's grace; it is a response to grace already received. How then do I deny grace? Faith itself, as James says, is proven by its works--not dry legalism, but positive expressions of love toward God and our fellow humans. The Sabbath is my way of telling God I love him. I can't say it any plainer than that.

And yes, the Law of Love and Grace is more important than Sabbathkeeping. Should I give up my understanding of the Sabbath for that reason?

Holiness is giving ourselves to Christ (see Romans 12:1-2). God has given the Holy Spirit to enable us to have a holy relationship with our Father. The key to holiness is submitting to the Spirit's control in daily life that will enable us to overcome the human nature and live through grace's sufficiency. We cannot make ourselves holy but He can. The key is we are to be trustful faith in Him rather than be trustful in faith. Holiness is our spiritual relationship with God alone rather than following and depending on the ceremonial laws. As long as our conscience is clear and our heart is pure before God, don't be concerned with issues. That is GRACE. In Romans 14:5 "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." 1 Corinthians 10:28-29 "both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake, the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience?" I mean, it's like losing ourselves in the pursuit of Christ and let everything else take its place like legalism. Romans 14:10 "You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat." Colossians 2:16 "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day." Romans 14:22 "So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God."

1 Timothy 1:5 "The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith."

Hebrews 10:22 "Let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water."

If you want to have Saturday your Sabbath day, you have God's blessing. If we want our Sabbath on our "7th" day, we have God's blessings. John 1:16 "From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another."

Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

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