Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

seekthetruth909 · Mar 17, 2006

BrightCandle said:
It has been amusing to me, here in the United States, regarding all the recent concern that Christian judges, churches, and organizations have regarding the removal of various historic monuments of the Ten Commandments in public places, like court houses, capital buildings, parks, etc., etc., while the majority of Christians in favor of the their not being removed are not keeping the 4th Commandment [7th day Sabbath]. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), could easily point out this inconsistency to the embarassment of those Christians calling for the Ten Commandments to not be removed on the grounds that their visibility in public places will discourage lawlessness, while the very same Christians are being "lawless" by breaking the 4th Commandment.

Romans 14:5-7

5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone.

Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

jrdc · Mar 17, 2006

In my humble opinion I think that it is good to keep the Sabbath but more important to realize why it is their to worship god if your work on the Sabbath should it not be for god... for even Jesus healed on the Sabbath with Christ we are under a new covenant for the most important commandment is love...

BrightCandle · Mar 17, 2006

jrdc said:
In my humble opinion I think that it is good to keep the Sabbath but more important to realize why it is their to worship god if your work on the Sabbath should it not be for god... for even Jesus healed on the Sabbath with Christ we are under a new covenant for the most important commandment is love...

What is the test of love for God? Jesus said: "If you love me, keep my commandments."

UUall · Mar 17, 2006

seekthetruth909 said:
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

What do you think above scripture says? Why mention whats eaten or drunken on these days?

BrightCandle · Mar 17, 2006

seekthetruth909 said:
Romans 14:5-7

5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone.

Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

Texts taken out of context can be made to say all kinds of things. Here is the Colossians 2: 16-17, and note how when you add verse 17 to verse 16, it gives meaning to the verse 16, by pointing out that "Sabbath" and other Jewish festivals must have been ceremonial in nature because they were "shadows of things to come". Paul was not referring to the weekly 7th day Sabbath, because it was one of the Ten Commandments that were written stone, and was not as thing that would pass away, on the contrary Jesus said that heavan and earth would pass away first before any of the Ten Commandments would be changed.

"16Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ"

woobadooba · Mar 17, 2006

BrightCandle said:
It has been amusing to me, here in the United States, regarding all the recent concern that Christian judges, churches, and organizations have regarding the removal of various historic monuments of the Ten Commandments in public places, like court houses, capital buildings, parks, etc., etc., while the majority of Christians in favor of the their not being removed are not keeping the 4th Commandment [7th day Sabbath]. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), could easily point out this inconsistency to the embarassment of those Christians calling for the Ten Commandments to not be removed on the grounds that their visibility in public places will discourage lawlessness, while the very same Christians are being "lawless" by breaking the 4th Commandment.

I think you have a valid point here. However, I wouldn't call it amusing, but rather sad.

But we mustn't forget the fact that just because there are people who oppose what is going on in the courts regarding this, but do not keep the 7th day Sabbath holy, that doesn't mean they don't love God.

This is important to keep in mind; and this is why I can't agree with you that this is amusing.

BrightCandle · Mar 17, 2006

woobadooba said:
I think you have a valid point here. However, I wouldn't call it amusing, but rather sad.

But we mustn't forget the fact that just because there are people who oppose what is going on in the courts regarding this, but do not keep the 7th day Sabbath holy, that doesn't mean they don't love God.

This is important to keep in mind; and this is why I can't agree with you that this is amusing.

In retrospect, I should have used the word "sad". Sometimes when you are posting it is difficult to find the exact words that describe your thoughts and feelings. But, you are right there are countless numbers of Christians who are not keeping the 7th day Sabbath, namely, because they have never been clearly shown its importance from the Bible. But, what is puzzling to me, is how judges, lawyers, and theologians, whose callings entail the in depth study of issues, don't see the inconsistency of their position in the current Ten Commandments debate that is going on in the USA.

Dragons87 · Mar 18, 2006

BrightCandle said:
Here is the text of the Sabbath Commandment:

Exodus 20:8-11 (ESV)

"8Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

Why would you want to try and change the commandment to fit your preferences? God wants us to conform our will to His will, not vice versa!

Ya. I labour for six days, Monday to Saturday, and then rest and keep Sabbath on Sunday, the seventh day since Monday.

BrightCandle · Mar 18, 2006

Dragons87 said:
Ya. I labour for six days, Monday to Saturday, and then rest and keep Sabbath on Sunday, the seventh day since Monday.

You done the same thing, altered the commandment to fit your preferences. Sunday is not the the 7th day according to biblical reckoning. Theologians and Historians have known this fact for centuries. Even the RCC knows that the 7th day is the Sabbath. Ask your local priest, he will confirm this fact. Sunday has been the first day of the week for centuries as well.

woobadooba · Mar 18, 2006

BrightCandle said:
You done the same thing, altered the commandment to fit your preferences. Sunday is not the the 7th day according to biblical reckoning. Theologians and Historians have known this fact for centuries. Even the RCC knows that the 7th day is the Sabbath. Ask your local priest, he will confirm this fact. Sunday has been the first day of the week for centuries as well.

They won't listen. Your words are falling on deaf ears. It's really sad.

JimfromOhio · Mar 18, 2006

I do believe in the Sabbath day. On the "7th" day of my week, I rest. On the first day of the week, I worship.

God rested on the seventh day as a pattern of work six days and rest one day which is binding for everyone since God did not rest for Himself, but for us. Jesus Christ taught the fullness of the spirit of the Law compared to the letter of Law. The rest which the old Sabbath promised has come in Christ: Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest (Matt. 11:28). The shift from the Jewish Saturday Sabbath to the Resurrection Sabbath of Jesus Christ is evident through various New Testament texts. It is my belief that sabbath (a day of rest) to the pattern of work six days and rest one day. There are people who work Saturdays and Sundays. And rest one day during the week. They even worship on a different day. Those who restricts God's Grace for christians observe the Sabbath with rules and regulations. The definition of legalism is a strict, literal or excessive conformity to the law or to a religious or moral code. In Hebrews 4 simply means that a believer can have a Sabbath rest at any day of the week.

Hebrews 4:11 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

The Sabbath observance was a part of the ceremonial law of the Old Testament, along with such things as circumcision and eating restrictions. These ceremonial laws showed that the Israelites were set apart (sanctified) from all other nations (Exodus 31:12, 13).

The New Testament shows that all ceremonial law (restrictive eating - Timothy 4:4, 5), circumcision - I Corinthians 7:18, and Sabbath-keeping - Colossians 2:16, 17) was fulfilled in Christ, and our need to observe it for justification and sanctification abolished. We are even warned against Sabbath-keepers who want to judge others for not keeping it: "Let no man judge you...regarding...sabbaths" (Colossians 2:16).

Keeping the Sabbath day holy is a commandment that requires a lot of heart searching. Jesus condemned the Pharisees saying "The Sabbath is made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27). Sunday is the Christian Sabbath because it is the day Christ arose. The Sabbath also was a day for God's people to gather together and Sunday is the day we gather as witnesses to the resurrection. Sabbath is a heart searching situation. I labor 6 days and take a day to celebrate God. Jesus is our Sabbath rest.

After studying the Word... I am comfortable worshipping on Sunday. Simply because on the first day of the week that Christ arose and so the first day, Sunday, came to be designated as the Lord's Day. On that day the early Christians gathered to worship (Acts 20:7; Revelation 1:10) as do we, and in doing so we celebrate Christ's resurrection. Christ's sacrifice for sin--Himself--was a "once for all" sacrifice. It needs never to be repeated. It is eternally effective.

There is nothing wrong worshipping on Saturdays. I worship Sunday because Christ rose on the first day of the week. If anyone wants to attend Church on Saturday, it is God's grace and blessings. If anyone wants to attend Church on Sunday, it is God's grace and blessings.

rstrats · Mar 18, 2006

JimfromOhio,

re: "Sunday is the Christian Sabbath because it is the day Christ arose. "

I am not aware of any indisputable scripture that says that the resurrection occurred on the first day of the week. What do you have in mind?

JimfromOhio · Mar 18, 2006

Luke 24:1
[ The Resurrection ] On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb.

Acts 20:7
[ Eutychus Raised From the Dead at Troas ] On the first day of the week we came together to break bread.

1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

Hebrews 4:4For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: "And on the seventh day God rested from all his work.

rstrats · Mar 18, 2006

JimfromOhio,

Athough you didn't address your post to anyone, I think it may be intended for me.

re: "Luke 24:1 [The Resurrection]..."

Luke 24:1 does not say when the resurrection occurred.

JimfromOhio · Mar 18, 2006

rstrats said:
JimfromOhio,

Athough you didn't address your post to anyone, I think it may be intended for me.

re: "Luke 24:1 [The Resurrection]..."

Luke 24:1 does not say when the resurrection occurred.

What day of the week did Jesus rose from the dead? First day of the week IS Sunday. Seventh day of the week is Saturday.

rstrats · Mar 18, 2006

JimfromOhio,

re: "First day of the week IS Sunday. Seventh day of the week is Saturday."

That is correct. What is your point?

BrightCandle · Mar 18, 2006

JimfromOhio said:
I do believe in the Sabbath day. On the "7th" day of my week, I rest. On the first day of the week, I worship.

God rested on the seventh day as a pattern of work six days and rest one day which is binding for everyone since God did not rest for Himself, but for us. Jesus Christ taught the fullness of the spirit of the Law compared to the letter of Law. The rest which the old Sabbath promised has come in Christ: “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest” (Matt. 11:28). The shift from the Jewish Saturday Sabbath to the Resurrection Sabbath of Jesus Christ is evident through various New Testament texts. It is my belief that sabbath (a day of rest) to the pattern of work six days and rest one day. There are people who work Saturdays and Sundays. And rest one day during the week. They even worship on a different day. Those who restricts God's Grace for christians observe the Sabbath with rules and regulations. The definition of legalism is a strict, literal or excessive conformity to the law or to a religious or moral code. In Hebrews 4 simply means that a believer can have a Sabbath rest at any day of the week.

Hebrews 4:11 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

The Sabbath observance was a part of the ceremonial law of the Old Testament, along with such things as circumcision and eating restrictions. These ceremonial laws showed that the Israelites were set apart (sanctified) from all other nations (Exodus 31:12, 13).

The New Testament shows that all ceremonial law (restrictive eating - Timothy 4:4, 5), circumcision - I Corinthians 7:18, and Sabbath-keeping - Colossians 2:16, 17) was fulfilled in Christ, and our need to observe it for justification and sanctification abolished. We are even warned against Sabbath-keepers who want to judge others for not keeping it: "Let no man judge you...regarding...sabbaths" (Colossians 2:16).

Keeping the Sabbath day holy is a commandment that requires a lot of heart searching. Jesus condemned the Pharisees saying "The Sabbath is made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27). Sunday is the Christian Sabbath because it is the day Christ arose. The Sabbath also was a day for God's people to gather together and Sunday is the day we gather as witnesses to the resurrection. Sabbath is a heart searching situation. I labor 6 days and take a day to celebrate God. Jesus is our Sabbath rest.

After studying the Word... I am comfortable worshipping on Sunday. Simply because on the first day of the week that Christ arose and so the first day, Sunday, came to be designated as the Lord's Day. On that day the early Christians gathered to worship (Acts 20:7; Revelation 1:10) as do we, and in doing so we celebrate Christ's resurrection. Christ's sacrifice for sin--Himself--was a "once for all" sacrifice. It needs never to be repeated. It is eternally effective.

There is nothing wrong worshipping on Saturdays. I worship Sunday because Christ rose on the first day of the week. If anyone wants to attend Church on Saturday, it is God's grace and blessings. If anyone wants to attend Church on Sunday, it is God's grace and blessings.

Note, the statement below that is backed by the long list of well known Evangelical, Charismatic, Protestant, and even some Jewish leaders. In particular note, the phrase where they state that Moses "received the Ten Commandments for all mankind", that would included both Jews and Gentiles. It is only logical that either all 10 of the Ten Commandments including the 4th commandment, would be for all mankind, or if not all 10 would be for the Jews only. That is where the problem lies, applying a different standard of application to the Sabbath, when there is no evidence that it was to be changed. If you look at the life of Jesus, He kept at least 1,000 7th day Sabbaths as our example while on earth. And He gave no new Sabbath commandment changing it to the first day of the week. Men have created something that Jesus never commanded. That is unbiblical tradition supplanting the very word of God.

“3. The leadership of the Ten Commandments Commission felt strongly that it was important to establish a date for Ten Commandments Day that coincided with the historical time period when Moses met with God on Mount Sinai and received the Ten Commandments for all mankind. The first Sunday in May is an ideal date, occurring between the Jewish observances of Passover and Pentecost.”

• Dr. Paul Crouch, Founder and President of the TBN
• Bishop T.D. Jakes, CEO of The Potter's House of Dallas
• Rabbi Yehuda David Greenberg
• Jerome Edmondson , Senior Partner of Edmondson Associates
• Jay Sekulow, Chief Counsel for (ACLJ)
• Benny Hinn, Founder of Benny Hinn Ministries
• Richard Shakarian of the Full Gospel Business Men's Fellowship
• Bishop George McKinney of Church of God in Christ
• Pastor Billy Joe Daugherty of Tulsa Victory Christian Center
• Ted Haggard, President of the National Association of Evangelicals
• Dr. Mark J. Chironna, Overseer of The Master's Touch International
• Richard Roberts, President of Oral Roberts University
• Marilyn Hickey, Founder of Marilyn Hickey Ministries
• Bishop Paul S. Morton, Life Center Full Gospel Baptist Cathedral
• Dr. Charles Phillips, Official Representative to the United Nations
• Bishop Harold Ray, Pastor of Redemptive Life Fellowship
• Dr. Charles Green, Pastor of Faith Church of New Orleans
• Bishop Eddie L. Long of Bishop Eddie Long Ministries, Inc.
• Jerry Horner, Th.D.,* Director of Doctoral Studies, Beacon University
• Floyd Flake, Pastor and former Congressman
• Susan Zahn, President*and Founder of**WDC Media Public Relations
• Jason* T. Christy, Publisher and Editor-in-Chief, The Church Report
• David W. Clark, Ph.D. , President of Palm Beach Atlantic University
• Dr. Frank Wright, president of the National Religious Broadcasters
• Belarmino (Blackie) Gonzales - President, KCHF-TV KDAZ
• Garth W. Coonce *- President, TCT Ministries
• Ron Hembree - President, Cornerstone Television
• Ken Mikesell - President, TV52 /45 Good Life Broadcasting
• Bob D'Andrea, President CTN
• Peter Sumrall, President Lesea Broadcasting
• John Barker - President, The Ark Complex
• Pastor George Morrison - Chairman, Promise Keepers
• Mr. David Barton, Wallbuilders, Inc.
• Mr. Gary Bauer, Campaign for Working Families
• Mr. Joel Belz, World Magazine
• Mr. Phil Burress, Citizens for Community Values
• Mr. Jack Clayton,Christian Legal Defense and Education Foundation
• Mr. Chuck Colson, Prison Fellowship,Washington, DC
• Mrs. Roberta Combs, Christian Coalition,Washington, DC
• Congressman Bill Dannemeyer (1979-1992), Americans for Voluntary
• Dr. James Dobson, Focus on the Family, Colorado Springs, CO
• Rev. Jerry Falwell, Liberty Alliance, Lynchburg, VA
• Mr. Mike Farris, Homeschool Legal Defense Association
• Mr. David Keene, American Conservative Union
• Dr. D. James Kennedy, Coral Ridge Ministries
• Mr. Martin Mawyer, Christian Action Network
• Mr. William Murray, Religious Freedom Coalition
• Mr. Tony Perkins, Family Research Council, Washington, DC
• Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, Brotherhood Organization of a New Destiny
• Mrs. Frances Rath, Committee for Biblical Principles in Government
• Ms. Sandy Rios, Concerned Women for America
• Rev. Pat Robertson, Christian Broadcasting Network
• Dr. Rick Scarborough, Vision America
• Rev. Lou Sheldon, Traditional Values Coalition
• Mr. Paul Weyrich, Free Congress Foundation
• Mr. Don Wildmon, American Family Association
• Rabbi Daniel Lapin, President, Toward Tradition
• And many more. . . .

http://www.tencommandmentsday.com/index.html?http://www.tencommandmentsday.com/news.html

JimfromOhio · Mar 18, 2006

BrightCandle said:
Note, the statement below that is backed by the long list of well known Evangelical, Charismatic, Protestant, and even some Jewish leaders. In particular note, the phrase whre they state that Moses "received the Ten Commandments for all mankind", that would included both Jews and Gentiles. It is only logical that either all 10 of the Ten Commandments including the 4th commandment, would be for all mankind, or if not all 10 would be for the Jews only. That is where the problem lies, applying a different standard of application to the Sabbath, when there is no evidence that it was to be changed. If you look at the life of Jesus, He kept at least 1,000 7th day Sabbaths as our example while on earth. And He gave no new Sabbath commandment on the first day of the week. Men have created something that Jesus never commanded. That is unbiblical tradition supplanting the very word of God.

3. The leadership of the Ten Commandments Commission felt strongly that it was important to establish a date for Ten Commandments Day that coincided with the historical time period when Moses met with God on Mount Sinai and received the Ten Commandments for all mankind. The first Sunday in May is an ideal date, occurring between the Jewish observances of Passover and Pentecost.

Dr. Paul Crouch, Founder and President of the TBN
Bishop T.D. Jakes, CEO of The Potter's House of Dallas
Rabbi Yehuda David Greenberg
Jerome Edmondson , Senior Partner of Edmondson Associates
Jay Sekulow, Chief Counsel for (ACLJ)
Benny Hinn, Founder of Benny Hinn Ministries
Richard Shakarian of the Full Gospel Business Men's Fellowship
Bishop George McKinney of Church of God in Christ
Pastor Billy Joe Daugherty of Tulsa Victory Christian Center
Ted Haggard, President of the National Association of Evangelicals
Dr. Mark J. Chironna, Overseer of The Master's Touch International
Richard Roberts, President of Oral Roberts University
Marilyn Hickey, Founder of Marilyn Hickey Ministries
Bishop Paul S. Morton, Life Center Full Gospel Baptist Cathedral
Dr. Charles Phillips, Official Representative to the United Nations
Bishop Harold Ray, Pastor of Redemptive Life Fellowship
Dr. Charles Green, Pastor of Faith Church of New Orleans
Bishop Eddie L. Long of Bishop Eddie Long Ministries, Inc.
Jerry Horner, Th.D.,* Director of Doctoral Studies, Beacon University
Floyd Flake, Pastor and former Congressman
Susan Zahn, President*and Founder of**WDC Media Public Relations
Jason* T. Christy, Publisher and Editor-in-Chief, The Church Report
David W. Clark, Ph.D. , President of Palm Beach Atlantic University
Dr. Frank Wright, president of the National Religious Broadcasters
Belarmino (Blackie) Gonzales - President, KCHF-TV KDAZ
Garth W. Coonce *- President, TCT Ministries
Ron Hembree - President, Cornerstone Television
Ken Mikesell - President, TV52 /45 Good Life Broadcasting
Bob D'Andrea, President CTN
Peter Sumrall, President Lesea Broadcasting
John Barker - President, The Ark Complex
Pastor George Morrison - Chairman, Promise Keepers
Mr. David Barton, Wallbuilders, Inc.
Mr. Gary Bauer, Campaign for Working Families
Mr. Joel Belz, World Magazine
Mr. Phil Burress, Citizens for Community Values
Mr. Jack Clayton,Christian Legal Defense and Education Foundation
Mr. Chuck Colson, Prison Fellowship,Washington, DC
Mrs. Roberta Combs, Christian Coalition,Washington, DC
Congressman Bill Dannemeyer (1979-1992), Americans for Voluntary
Dr. James Dobson, Focus on the Family, Colorado Springs, CO
Rev. Jerry Falwell, Liberty Alliance, Lynchburg, VA
Mr. Mike Farris, Homeschool Legal Defense Association
Mr. David Keene, American Conservative Union
Dr. D. James Kennedy, Coral Ridge Ministries
Mr. Martin Mawyer, Christian Action Network
Mr. William Murray, Religious Freedom Coalition
Mr. Tony Perkins, Family Research Council, Washington, DC
Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, Brotherhood Organization of a New Destiny
Mrs. Frances Rath, Committee for Biblical Principles in Government
Ms. Sandy Rios, Concerned Women for America
Rev. Pat Robertson, Christian Broadcasting Network
Dr. Rick Scarborough, Vision America
Rev. Lou Sheldon, Traditional Values Coalition
Mr. Paul Weyrich, Free Congress Foundation
Mr. Don Wildmon, American Family Association
Rabbi Daniel Lapin, President, Toward Tradition
And many more. . . .

http://www.tencommandmentsday.com/index.html?http://www.tencommandmentsday.com/news.html

So.. your leaders are really special huh? In Proverbs 21:2, "People may think they are doing what is right, but the Lord examines the heart." (NLT). When Jesus rebuked the Pharisees, He said: "They do all their deeds to be noticed by men" (Mt. 23:5). . . . Theirs was a problem of priorities: Their first priority was social status, to which end God was but a means. What greater affront to God could there be? Better to ignore Him altogether than to exploit Him as a means to something else you value more highly. Would we be rejoicing to live in a Pharisaic-dominated society? Jesus said to the Pharisees one day as they picked up stones to stone an adulterous woman: Whoever is "without sin... throw the first stone."

Our Christian practice (life) starts in our hearts. Our thoughts are the product of our thinking and it is not our thinking that shapes our character, but the Holy Spirit that leads our thoughts and shapes our character. Regarding Sabbath day or The Day of the Lord or First Day of the Week, God meets us in our hearts. God is looking for Christians who will worship and obey Him from their hearts, minds and bodies. Without Christ, we are nothing. Along with love and under the control of the Holy Spirit, the power of love and Holy Spirit flows through us. The only way the spiritual gifts are going to operate is love. Love is the key. God is love. He gave us two commandments. We are to love God and others. With the Holy Spirit and love, I will walk in the Spirit, Christ produces the fruit. And out of that fruit comes whatever the ministry of the gifts Christ wanted us to use.

Focus on "CHRIST" rather than "CHURCH". Church is offering prayers, giving to the poor, celebrating religious holy days, singing in the choir, helping the poor, making amends for past wrongs, something that was practiced by the Pharisees, those legalism-loving, conservative, separatistic, spiritual leaders. They hated Christ not only because He broke their traditions in order to help people (Matthew 15:1-9) but because He saw through their religion to their hearts.

I am a Christian simply because I have accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior. As a disciple, my Christian faith should be inward, not outward because the Bible teaches that faith is of the spirit and not of the flesh. Christ dwells in my heart, and "Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Colossians 1:27) is the burning core of the Christian faith.

I am a member of a local Church and get deeply involved in the participation of a local assembly (Romans 12:1-8; 1 Corinthians. 12:25-31; 14:12, 26; Hebrews 10:24-25; I Tim. 3:14-15) for Worship, Fellowship, Edification and Great Commission.

I am following in the Sabbath Day in my heart. Whether I am going to be legalistic about it, is NOT the issue. The issue is this: People are confused about Lordship being legalism and it is not legalism. Legalism is: "It's pretending to be holy without really being holy"

My problem with legalism is that it can't produce a pure heart. Legalism is from the Law while Grace is from the Heart.

I am following the greatest commandment spoken by Jesus Christ:

Lordship of Jesus Christ is about LOVE with discernment. Get to know what is out there.

Matthew 22:36-38 (New International Version)
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'This is the first and greatest commandment.
Luke 14:27 And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:33 In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.

Who shall cast the first stone?

BrightCandle · Mar 18, 2006

JimfromOhio said:
So.. your leaders are really special huh? In Proverbs 21:2, "People may think they are doing what is right, but the Lord examines the heart." (NLT). When Jesus rebuked the Pharisees, He said: "They do all their deeds to be noticed by men" (Mt. 23:5). . . . Theirs was a problem of priorities: Their first priority was social status, to which end God was but a means. What greater affront to God could there be? Better to ignore Him altogether than to exploit Him as a means to something else you value more highly. Would we be rejoicing to live in a Pharisaic-dominated society? Jesus said to the Pharisees one day as they picked up stones to stone an adulterous woman: Whoever is "without sin... throw the first stone."

Our Christian practice (life) starts in our hearts. Our thoughts are the product of our thinking and it is not our thinking that shapes our character, but the Holy Spirit that leads our thoughts and shapes our character. Regarding Sabbath day or The Day of the Lord or First Day of the Week, God meets us in our hearts. God is looking for Christians who will worship and obey Him from their hearts, minds and bodies. Without Christ, we are nothing. Along with love and under the control of the Holy Spirit, the power of love and Holy Spirit flows through us. The only way the spiritual gifts are going to operate is love. Love is the key. God is love. He gave us two commandments. We are to love God and others. With the Holy Spirit and love, I will walk in the Spirit, Christ produces the fruit. And out of that fruit comes whatever the ministry of the gifts Christ wanted us to use.

Focus on "CHRIST" rather than "CHURCH". Church is offering prayers, giving to the poor, celebrating religious holy days, singing in the choir, helping the poor, making amends for past wrongs, something that was practiced by the Pharisees, those legalism-loving, conservative, separatistic, spiritual leaders. They hated Christ not only because He broke their traditions in order to help people (Matthew 15:1-9) but because He saw through their religion to their hearts.

I am a Christian simply because I have accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior. As a disciple, my Christian faith should be inward, not outward because the Bible teaches that faith is of the spirit and not of the flesh. Christ dwells in my heart, and "Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Colossians 1:27) is the burning core of the Christian faith.

I am a member of a local Church and get deeply involved in the participation of a local assembly (Romans 12:1-8; 1 Corinthians. 12:25-31; 14:12, 26; Hebrews 10:24-25; I Tim. 3:14-15) for Worship, Fellowship, Edification and Great Commission.

I am following in the Sabbath Day in my heart. Whether I am going to be legalistic about it, is NOT the issue. The issue is this: People are confused about Lordship being legalism and it is not legalism. Legalism is: "It's pretending to be holy without really being holy"

My problem with legalism is that it can't produce a pure heart. Legalism is from the Law while Grace is from the Heart.

I am following the greatest commandment spoken by Jesus Christ:

Lordship of Jesus Christ is about LOVE with discernment. Get to know what is out there.

Matthew 22:36-38 (New International Version)
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'This is the first and greatest commandment.
Luke 14:27 And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:33 In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.

Who shall cast the first stone?

This is not about throwing stones, it is about doing what Jesus said, and simply said: "If you love me, keep my commandments." Note, He did not say: "If you love me, do your own thing." That is what you call "cheap grace" which being dispensed freely all across the US and Canada these days.

And P.S. the religious leaders that I listed are not ones that I look up too, there no SDA leaders in the list, but there were some of the "heavy hitters" of the Evangelical churches here in the US. I listed them to show the inconsistent position that they are in by promoting the 10 Commamdments as being for "all manking", except the Sabbath of course which they say is changed to Sunday, but with no Command from God to back up their claim.

tapero · Mar 18, 2006

BrightCandle said:
It has been amusing to me, here in the United States, regarding all the recent concern that Christian judges, churches, and organizations have regarding the removal of various historic monuments of the Ten Commandments in public places, like court houses, capital buildings, parks, etc., etc., while the majority of Christians in favor of the their not being removed are not keeping the 4th Commandment [7th day Sabbath]. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), could easily point out this inconsistency to the embarassment of those Christians calling for the Ten Commandments to not be removed on the grounds that their visibility in public places will discourage lawlessness, while the very same Christians are being "lawless" by breaking the 4th Commandment.

You wrote we were being 'lawless'. I don't see that. I wonder how you, not you personally, but how anyone does with the first commandment. I don't think we do very good. The ACLU can point that out too, and all the other sins we commit. I think you make a good point, but it's us against them argument is all it is. Nothing for the building up of the saints. Take care, Tapero

Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

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