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Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath? (2)

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YahwehisHisname

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Adam Clarke's commentary on the New Testiment

Let no man—judge you in meat, or in drink—The apostle speaks here in reference to some particulars of the hand-writing of ordinances, which had been taken away, viz., the distinction of meats and drinks, what was clean and what unclean, according to the law; and the necessity of observing certain holydays or festivals, such as the new moons and particular sabbaths, or those which should be observed with more than ordinary solemnity; all these had been taken out of the way and nailed to the cross, and were no longer of moral obligation. There is no intimation here that the Sabbath was done away, or that its moral use was superseded, by the introduction of Christianity. I have shown elsewhere that, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, is a command of perpetual obligation, and can never be superseded but by the final termination of time. As it is a type of that rest which remains for the people of God, of an eternity of bliss, it must continue in full force till that eternity arrives; for no type ever ceases till the antitype be come. Besides, it is not clear that the apostle refers at all to the Sabbath in this place, whether Jewish or Christian; his σαββατων, of sabbaths or weeks, most probably refers to their feasts of weeks, of which much has been said in the notes on the Pentateuch.



Barnes' Notes has this to say


Or of the Sabbath days—Greek, “of the Sabbaths.” The word Sabbath in the Old Testament is applied not only to the seventh day, but to all the days of holy rest that were observed by the Hebrews, and particularly to the beginning and close of their great festivals. There is, doubtless, reference to those days in this place, since the word is used in the plural number, and the apostle does not refer particularly to the Sabbath properly so called. There is no evidence from this passage that he would teach that there was no obligation to observe any holy time, for there is not the slightest reason to believe that he meant to teach that one of the ten commandments had ceased to be binding on mankind. If he had used the word in the singular number—“the Sabbath,” it would then, of course, have been clear that he meant to teach that that commandment had ceased to be binding, and that a Sabbath was no longer to be observed. But the use of the term in the plural number, and the connection, show that he had his eye on the great number of days which were observed by the Hebrews as festivals, as a part of their ceremonial and typical law, and not to the moral law, or the Ten Commandments. No part of the moral law—no one of the ten commandments could be spoken of as “a shadow of good things to come.” These commandments are, from the nature of moral law, of perpetual and universal obligation.


Jamieson-Faussett-Brown Commentary says



Verse 16. therefore—because ye are complete in Christ, and God in Him has dispensed with all subordinate means as essential to acceptance with Him.


meat … drink—Greek, “eating … drinking” (Romans 14:1-17). Pay no regard to any one who sits in judgment on you as to legal observances in respect to foods.


holyday—a feast yearly. Compare the three, 1 Chronicles 23:31.

new moon—monthly.
the sabbath—Omit “THE,” which is not in the Greek (compare Note,see on Galatians 4:10). “SABBATHS” (not “the sabbaths”) of the day of atonement and feast of tabernacles have come to an end with the Jewish services to which they belonged (Leviticus 23:32, 37-39). The weekly sabbath rests on a more permanent foundation, having been instituted in Paradise to commemorate the completion of creation in six days. Leviticus 23:38 expressly distinguished “the sabbath of the Lord” from the other sabbaths. A positive precept is right because it is commanded, and ceases to be obligatory when abrogated; a moral precept is commanded eternally, because it is eternally right. If we could keep a perpetual sabbath, as we shall hereafter, the positive precept of the sabbath, one in each week, would not be needed. Hebrews 4:9, “rests,” Greek, “keeping of sabbath” (Isaiah 66:23). But we cannot, since even Adam, in innocence, needed one amidst his earthly employments; therefore the sabbath is still needed and is therefore still linked with the other nine commandments, as obligatory in the spirit, though the letter of the law has been superseded by that higher spirit of love which is the essence of law and Gospel alike (Romans 13:8-10).


Right before he said this, Paul explained

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men.

Sunday sabbath is a tradition of man.











 
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woobadooba

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Your Neighbor said:
OK. But where does God begin and end days on planet earth?

Does it really matter? I mean, to be so particular about this is nothing less than being legalistic.

Whatever the 7th day is in your time zone is the day that you are required by God to keep holy.

As I had mentioned to you before, God doesn't care so much about the exactitude of time as He does with you adhering to the principle of the command. Therefore, whatever time period the 7th day begins and ends for you in your time zone is the time that you need to observe the Sabbath.

Please note: When I speak of the exactitude of time I am not referring to the idea that God doesn't care about what day it is that you choose to observe as the Sabbath, because He did make it very clear that it is on the 7th day. Rather, I am referring to the exact time in which it begins and ends for every person in every time zone at the same time, and in the same sense.

But if you really want to be particular about it, then find out when the 7th day begins and ends in Jerusalem, and adhere to that time frame in keeping the Sabbath day holy in whatever time zone you are in.

I really don't understand why you are making this so complicated.
 
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BrightCandle

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Your Neighbor said:
OK. But where does God begin and end days on planet earth?

Sundown begins the Sabbath on what we call Friday night, and sundown on what we call Saturday night ends the Sabbath. All issues dealing with International Date Line and World Time Zones are a modern technical issue which has been used by the Devil to discourage honest souls from keeping the Sabbath. God would not have given use a Commandment that He specifically said to "Remember", if in the 20th and 21st century it could not be kept because of a "time zone" issues, that is ludicrous!
 
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Cliff2

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BrightCandle said:
Sundown begins the Sabbath on what we call Friday night, and sundown on what we call Saturday night ends the Sabbath. All issues dealing with International Date Line and World Time Zones are a modern technical issue which has been used by the Devil to discourage honest souls from keeping the Sabbath. God would not have given use a Commandment that He specifically said to "Remember", if in the 20th and 21st century it could not be kept because of a "time zone" issues, that is ludicrous!

I also want to make that point.

God would not tell us to "Remember the Sabbath day..." if He did not want us to keep it.
 
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BrightCandle said:
... that is ludicrous!
Want ludicrous? SDA's worship on Sunday, the same day as Catholics do on Tonga. Why? The man-made dateline was changed around the island. So, who gets the mark of the beast there when Tonga issues a Sunday law? SDA's?!
 
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woobadooba

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Oblio said:
I remember the Sabbath, in fact all Orthodox Christians did today to commemorate Christ fullfilling the Sabbath as He rested from His work on the Cross.

:bow: :liturgy: :crosseo:

It's a nice thought, but you don't have any Biblical support for it.

In fact, Jesus informed us of what manner we are to remember Him:

"And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me." Lk. 22:19

And the Apostles did this:

"Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts," Acts 2:46

Notice how they remembered Jesus in this way every day, not just on the 7th or the 1st day of the week.

Yet, they were silent on the idea that you are suggesting here. Why is that? Why didn't they speak of a so-called new Sabbath? It is because the 7th day Sabbath was never done away with, nor was it established for the purpose that you are suggesting.

So yes, we are all called to remember what Christ did. Not in the manner in which your man-made tradition prescribes, but according to Jesus words.
 
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Oblio

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Yet, they were silent on the idea that you are suggesting here. Why is that? Why didn't they speak of a so-called new Sabbath? It is because the 7th day Sabbath was never done away with, nor was it established for the purpose that you are suggesting.

They were silent because there was no need to speak of the common practice already established as cited earlier.

As for traditions of men (or women :eek:), there is the modern spritualization of the Holy Eucharist which is rooted in gnosticism. Odd that there is no evidence for such belief other than by heretics prior to the 15th c.
 
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woobadooba

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Oblio said:
They were silent because there was no need to speak of the common practice already established as cited earlier.

As for traditions of men (or women :eek:), there is the modern spritualization of the Holy Eucharist which is rooted in gnosticism. Odd that there is no evidence for such belief other than by heretics prior to the 15th c.

Common practice?

No, what was common practice was them keeping the Sabbath day holy, not the 1st day. See Acts 1:12; 13:14, 27, 42, 44; 15:21; 16:13

Obviously it was never forgotten, and this explains why it wasn't necessary for the Apostles to emphasize its importance to God's people, except for in Hebrews 4.

As for the metaphorical aspect of the communion service, there is internal evidence in the scriptures which suggests that Jesus wasn't referring to people having to eat His literal flesh, and drink His literal blood. In fact, it is absurd to even suggest such a thing. Jesus was known for speaking in parables and for using a lot of metaphorical speech.

But that is another thread. Let's stay on track here please.
 
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BrightCandle

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Your Neighbor said:
Want ludicrous? SDA's worship on Sunday, the same day as Catholics do on Tonga. Why? The man-made dateline was changed around the island. So, who gets the mark of the beast there when Tonga issues a Sunday law? SDA's?!

I did more research on this issue, and it turns out that Tongan SDAs are the only SDAs in the world that do keep Sabbath on the 1st day, because of the "jog" in the IDL. They will have to answer for their actions before God. However, that is not the situation for the 99% of the 15,000,000 SDAs around the world.

Here is an article that clarifies the issue better for all interested.

Tonga was the first nation to welcome the new millennium because of a capricious quirk in the international date line. Established in 1884, this imaginary line marks the start of each calendar day. Theoretically, it should run for its entire length along the 180th meridian, halfway around the world from the prime meridian, the starting point for measuring international time.

If it followed the 180th meridian precisely, however, most of the Aleutian Islands would be a day ahead of the rest of Alaska, and Fiji would be split into 2 days. To solve these problems, the date line swings west around the Aleutians, leaving them in the same day as Alaska. In the South Pacific, it swerves east between Fiji and Samoa, leaving all of Fiji a day ahead of the Samoas.

Since Tonga and Samoa lie east of the 180th meridian, both countries should logically be in the same day. But Tonga wanted to have the same date as Australia and New Zealand, so the line was drawn arbitrarily east of Tonga, putting it 1 day ahead of Samoa.

To travelers, it's even more confusing because Tonga and Samoa are in the same time zone. When traveling from one to the other, therefore, only the date changes, not the time of day. For example, if everyone is going to church at 10am on Sunday in Tonga, everyone's at work on Saturday in Samoa.

Tonga's Seventh-Day Adventists, who celebrate the Sabbath on Saturday but work on Sunday, have taken advantage of this abnormality to avoid running afoul of Tonga's tough Sunday blue laws. In God's eyes, they say, Sunday in Tonga really is Saturday. Accordingly, Tonga is the only place in the world where Seventh-Day Adventists observe their Sabbath on Sunday.

http://www.frommers.com/destinations/tonga/3039020416.html
 
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BrightCandle

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Oblio said:
I remember the Sabbath, in fact all Orthodox Christians did today to commemorate Christ fullfilling the Sabbath as He rested from His work on the Cross.

:bow: :liturgy: :crosseo:

Do you cease from secular labor and from secular intertainment, sports, hobbies, etc, etc, from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday?
 
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Oblio

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In fact, it is absurd to even suggest such a thing.

Absurd, foolishness and offensive. Those who thought so left Jesus.

Do you cease from secular labor and from secular intertainment, sports, hobbies, etc, etc, from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday?

Christians don't do that, you are talking about being a slave to the Law that condemns.
 
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jochanaan

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Oblio said:
Christians don't do that, you are talking about being a slave to the Law that condemns.
No, we're not; we're talking about obeying a simple request because we love the Requestor. Wouldn't you, to keep peace in a household, comply with something your spouse feels strongly about even if you saw no reason for it, at least as well as you can?

Let me say again: I do not keep the Sabbath in hope that by doing so I will be saved. I keep it because I love the Lord Who has already saved me. It is not a prerequisite for salvation; it is a result of it.

BTW, I'm still waiting for an answer to my question about homosexual and polyamorous partnerships.:confused:
 
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Cliff2

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jochanaan said:
No, we're not; we're talking about obeying a simple request because we love the Requestor. Wouldn't you, to keep peace in a household, comply with something your spouse feels strongly about even if you saw no reason for it, at least as well as you can?

Let me say again: I do not keep the Sabbath in hope that by doing so I will be saved. I keep it because I love the Lord Who has already saved me. It is not a prerequisite for salvation; it is a result of it.

BTW, I'm still waiting for an answer to my question about homosexual and polyamorous partnerships.:confused:

You are right, the Sabbath in and of itself will never save, Christ only has the power to save.

You keep saying it, I also keep saying but some how it does not get through.
 
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