Why we MUST protect our borders

[smaneck]

If it looks like the Donald will win the Presidency, I assure that many of my fellow Canadians and I would be willing to build such a wall ourselves.....

No, no. If Trump wins the election you have to let us in!

 

[smaneck]

Are you serious!? How horribly insensitive you are to call what this woman and many other Lebanese people xperienced and endured, "garbage"! Tens of thousands of people lost their lives to radical Muslims and you have the gaul to call her testimony GARBAGE?

First off, most of the Muslims who fought during the Lebanese Civil War were not radical. Whatever her father might have told her, they were not out to kill the Maronites because they were Christians. The were fighting against the Maronites because they were a minority dominating the majority. The reason her house was destroyed during the Civil War was because it was near a military installation the Muslims were attacking, not because they were Christians. Unlike the Maronites who slaughter those Palestinian civilians their object was not genocide.

There were dozens of different factions during the Lebanese Civil War, some were secular, most were sectarian. The only one I would call Islamists was the Hizbullah who don't enter the conflict until much later. The Muslim Brotherhood came later still

Just because things with someone you know in Lebanon "today" are ok does not discount what Brigette Gabriel endured at the hands of radical Muslims who invaded the country after Lebanon made the exact same error the USA is making today.

Again, they weren't radical Muslims. They were just Muslims who wanted their fair share of political power. What she calls asking for things "incompatible to Judeo-Christian values" was real democracy instead of the Maronite-dominated oligarchy that they had.

The POINT of the video is to warn Americans of what can happen if we continue to permit unvetted Muslims enter the country.

Which is utterly ridiculous since the only sizable immigrant population in Lebanon at the time were the Palestinians (both Muslim and Christian) living in refugee camps. You know, the ones the Maronites slaughtered.

Truth is the Maronites were the worst terrorists during the Lebanese Civil War.

Your post is absolutely outrageous trash-heap material.

That video you started this thread with is nothing but a lot of vicious distortions and lies. Maybe she believes it, I don't know. She was only ten at the time and believed whatever her parents told her. She wasn't there for the massacres carried out by the Maronites. I was an adult studying the Middle East at the time, and while I wasn't there I was observing the events very carefully. You're not going to find out much living in a 8X10 bunker.

 

[dzheremi]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Canada doesn't want a bunch of disgruntled Americans who can't handle that their person didn't win. Not that it matters, since it's all talk anyway so none of you are going anywhere.

 

[dzheremi]

Truth is the Maronites were the worst terrorists during the Lebanese Civil War.

I dunno...what about Abu Arz (Etienne Sakr) and the Guardians of the Cedars? They seemed to be even more anti-Palestinian, though I guess they were also never as large or as effective as the Ouwet.

I also have Maronite friends who were around in those days who essentially sided with the Palestinians (not by fighting for the PLO, but by refusing to fight for any of the Maronite militias)...just by the way. It should be pointed out that the Phalangists being Maronite does not equal the Maronites as a whole being Phalangists. For instance, Maronite priest Fr. Khalil Abi-Nader was well known in his day for attempting to broker a cease fire to end the clashes between the Ouwet and the Lebanese Army, which had led to a lot of destruction. And even among the Maronites themselves, you had people like Bachir Gemayel who worked with Israel (yuck), and also people like Tony Farangieh who criticized the Ouwet for exactly that reason (Farangieh himself was murdered together with his family, including a three year old daughter, by the rival militia in the resulting power struggle -- such Christian love these people's lust for power drove them to exhibit!).

Ugh. Thank God for people like Fairuz and precious few others who stayed above the fray as a symbol of Lebanon that everyone, regardless of confessional or political alliances, could relate to and feel pride in. I quite like seeing today the marches with Shi'a, Greek Orthodox, Greek Catholic, Syriac, and other clergy, under big banners that say "Religion is for God; the Homeland is for Everyone". As it should be.

 

[smaneck]

Among the lies and distortions in this video is the impression it gives that it was the Lebanese government under Christian dominance that built Lebanons great universities. Not true. Nearly all of those universities were built by Western missionaries. The most famous one is the American University of Beirut, previously known as the Syrian Protestant College. It was built by American Presbyterian missionaries. It was at this institution that Arab nationalism was born.

 

[smaneck]

The video below is the testimony of a Lebanese woman named Brigitte Gabriel

More false testimony from her. In the video she claims that the Lebanese Civil War stated when some Muslims entered a church killed four people. The attack on these people was a reprisal against a Christian Phalangist ambush of a bus in which 28 Palestinians were killed. The four Christians were killed in a driveby outside the church in question. Two of them were Phalange militia men. Bashir Gemayel, the leader of the Phalange militia, ordered reprisals and around 40 Muslim men are stopped at Christian roadblocks and murdered. Muslim militias began to retaliate in a similar fashion. By the end of the day, about 300 Muslims and 300 Christians have been murdered. Afterwards Christians carried out a massacre. She talks about the massacre of Damour where 582 Maronites were massacred by Palestinians. What she doesn't tell you is that this massacre was a reprisal for the earlier Karantina massacre in which Maronite Christians killed some 1500 people, some of whom were Armenian, Kurds and Palestinians.


Communal, sectarian violence, yes. Radical Islam, no. The kind of jihadist movements we see today had not even been born yet. The Lebanese Civil War starts in 1975. Hizbullah isn't on the scene until 1982, the Muslim Brotherhood not there until 1985.

She says we lack imagination. Well, i have to say she has a good imagination when it comes to recounting what happened in the Lebanese Civil War.

 

[Jay Follett]

Nobody minds them they come to get some beer go to their doctors appointment and then they go back home...

I know it was just a throw away comment but some crazy Americans might actually believe that.

 

[High Fidelity]

Honestly, though...is it racist to you guys to want a secure border? I'm not talking about a wall. I'm talking about what we have with Canada where you can go up to a certain spot, hand in a passport, etc. at that spot. I also don't like that Canada straw man argument because the Canadian border is obviously more secure. Canadians aren't coming over here en masse.

Islamic terrorists aside, of course. I know Muslims aren't coming over the border and I know all about what the Lebanese Christians did.

The argument is that an insecure border can result in terrorists crossing. The northern border, in my opinion, is even more susceptible to such a threat because, as we've seen in this thread, it's less expected.

Terrorists may be terrorists, but they aren't all complete idiots.

The issue here is that people are trying to use a particular narrative to further a different agenda. This has less to do with the terrorist threat than it does with Mexicans and South Americans crossing illegally.

 

[Jay Follett]

Terrorists may be terrorists, but they aren't all complete idiots.

No they're not.....

Why would terrorist target the US? could it be something America has done? have the US military killed many families in other countries? do some people hate Americans with a passion? if an army from another country came to America and killed a member of your family would you join a group that promised to let you go to that country and avenge those killings? would you go there with a smile on your face and be glad that you were going there to kill some of them? I think you just might.

 

[smaneck]

Honestly, though...is it racist to you guys to want a secure border? I'm not talking about a wall. I'm talking about what we have with Canada where you can go up to a certain spot, hand in a passport, etc. at that spot.

We already have that with Mexico.

I also don't like that Canada straw man argument because the Canadian border is obviously more secure. Canadians aren't coming over here en masse.

That's not because our border with them is more secure, it is because Canadians aren't willing to give up their health care for our Second Amendment.

 

[smaneck]

It should be pointed out that the Phalangists being Maronite does not equal the Maronites as a whole being Phalangists.

Of course not. I'm just protesting this woman trying to make it look like it was 'radical Islam' that to blame in the Lebanese Civil War. There was plenty of blame to go around. Radical Islam doesn't really enter into the picture until late on.

And even among the Maronites themselves, you had people like Bachir Gemayel who worked with Israel (yuck)

Huh? He was part of the Phalangists. The one thing that video was right about is the way in which Israel was arming the Phalangists.

Ugh. Thank God for people like Fairuz and precious few others who stayed above the fray as a symbol of Lebanon that everyone, regardless of confessional or political alliances, could relate to and feel pride in. I quite like seeing today the marches with Shi'a, Greek Orthodox, Greek Catholic, Syriac, and other clergy, under big banners that say "Religion is for God; the Homeland is for Everyone". As it should be.

Indeed. I think the Malikites (Greek Orthodox) largely stayed out of this fray. Sensible people. But of course, that raises the question as to why these supposedly 'radical' Muslims didn't target them if it was all about killing people just because they were Christians. Or maybe it was really about something else?

 

[smaneck]

Why would terrorist target the US? could it be something America has done? have the US military killed many families in other countries? do some people hate Americans with a passion? if an army from another country came to America and killed a member of your family would you join a group that promised to let you go to that country and avenge those killings? would you go there with a smile on your face and be glad that you were going there to kill some of them?

Naah, haven't you heard? They just hate our way of life.

 

[smaneck]

I dunno...what about Abu Arz (Etienne Sakr) and the Guardians of the Cedars?

Of course, they were Maronites as well. But yeah, driving around Beirut with Palestinians tied to the back of your bumper, not nice.
Now you want to bet that recounting all these atrocities committed by Maronite Christians during the Lebanese Civil War won't change "Einstein's" beliefs one iota?

 

[smaneck]

The argument is that an insecure border can result in terrorists crossing. The northern border, in my opinion, is even more susceptible to such a threat because, as we've seen in this thread, it's less expected.

Terrorists may be terrorists, but they aren't all complete idiots.

The issue here is that people are trying to use a particular narrative to further a different agenda. This has less to do with the terrorist threat than it does with Mexicans and South Americans crossing illegally.

This

 

[smaneck]

Nobody minds them they come to get some beer go to their doctors appointment and then they go back home...

Not a chance! The beer okay, but what Canadian wants to pay our prices for health care?

 

[smaneck]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Canada doesn't want a bunch of disgruntled Americans who can't handle that their person didn't win.

Hey, what would you do if someone like Trump were elected president in your country?

Not that it matters, since it's all talk anyway so none of you are going anywhere.

Actually I was thinking Ecuador. Can't afford Canada.

 

[Uncle Siggy]

I know it was just a throw away comment but some crazy Americans might actually believe that.

 

[Uncle Siggy]

Not a chance! The beer okay, but what Canadian wants to pay our prices for health care?

It's cheaper for your Healthcare if you pay cash. On top of that their healthcare system has the same issues all Socialized systems have, long wait times to see doctors, some procedures and medications not available...

 

[TravelerFarAwayFromHome]

As a Canadian looking south at the xenophobia, racism and political fear mongering, maybe Canada should be considering a wall --------------- and make Trump pay for it.

haven't watch the video

but would you care to explain how not wanting foreigners to break US law to come into the country illegally is considered Xenophobia or racism?

you need understand the difference between right and wrong and shut up!

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Are you serious!? How horribly insensitive you are to call what this woman and many other Lebanese people experienced and endured, "garbage"! Tens of thousands of people lost their lives to radical Muslims and you have the gaul to call her testimony GARBAGE?

That woman? Do you mean the barbarian with no soul (i.e. an animal)??? Are you saying you believe this barbaric animal?

As for Lebanese people, I think I know plenty, plenty, plenty more than you do and they certainly do not agree with most of her extremist rhetoric.

shame on you.
I suppose you think the HOLOCAUST is "garbage" too??
How about the genocide in Turkey, is that also GARBAGE?

No, shame on YOU. I have not called any holocaust or genocide "garbage", I called your OP "garbage". And it is.

I'm a descendant of victims and survivors of "the genocide in Turkey" (it's called "The Armenian Genocide", since you didn't know). You're obviously bringing that up to mock the genocide and to attack me. Do you have a conscience?

Just because things with someone you know in Lebanon "today" are ok does not discount what Brigette Gabriel endured at the hands of radical Muslims who invaded the country after Lebanon made the exact same error the USA is making today.

I know people who live in Lebanon today as well as when Brigitte Gabriel lived there as well as before she was born. How about that? I also know that she is considered a con artist by many Lebanese, including Christians (Maronite and Armenian and Protestant). I also know that she exaggerates (at best) many of her experience in order to further her agenda which amounts to little more than than promotion of xenophobia against Arab Muslims among American conservatives. It's that simple.

So I don't just know someone in Lebanon "today" - I know people from all decades from there including people still there. In fact, I was just chatting with my cousin in L.A. who is about Brigitte's age and lived in Lebanon during the Civil War and she does NOT hate muslims the way Brigitte irrationally does.

The POINT of the video is to warn Americans of what can happen if we continue to permit unvetted Muslims enter the country.

The POINT of the video is to spread a story that will scare American conservatives into supporting the most xenophobic and racist policies possible against all Arab Muslims so that Brigitte Gabriel can further her agenda. Only ignorant people believe that animal.

Your post is absolutely outrageous trash-heap material.

Your second post is twice the garbage of your first post. You know nothing other than what you see on a YouTube video, you have no people in your life from Lebanon who know what Lebanon is like and you're going to sit there and tell someone whose family and fellow church members are from Lebanon what is true or not about Lebanon??? Seriously???