Why we know the Day or Hour

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Well, there is the tares being gathered first then burned. Also that mini rebellion before the judgment followed by the fire of God. The period before the millennial rule also results in the prophet of the beast and all who took the mark of the beast in the lake of fire.. The pattern of first the wicked are burned, then the wheat is gathered, seems to be pattern at the very least.

Ok i will say fair enough, I see where you are coming from and I'm not gonna act like it doesn't make sense, but also what about when Jesus says "31 The great trumpet will sound, and he will send out his angels to the four corners of the earth, and they will gather his chosen people from one end of the world to the other."

also what about "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." 1 Thessalonians 4:17

 

[Gregory Thompson]

1Thessalonians5:9-11 says that Christians are not appointed to the time of God's wrath. Which will be poured out in the vials of God's wrath during the great tribulation.

Although no one knows the day, nor hour of the rapture/resurrection event - it will be before God's wrath is poured out when the Day of the Lord begins.




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You're definitely conflating scriptures there.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Ok i will say fair enough, I see where you are coming from and I'm not gonna act like it doesn't make sense, but also what about when Jesus says "31 The great trumpet will sound, and he will send out his angels to the four corners of the earth, and they will gather his chosen people from one end of the world to the other."

also what about "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." 1 Thessalonians 4:17

Jesus has the voice of an archangel, the voice calling out loudly is the sound of the trumpet.

When Jesus says to reap, then it is reaped. there is a blood vine and wheat also in the revelation verses.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Jesus has the voice of an archangel, the voice calling out loudly is the sound of the trumpet.

When Jesus says to reap, then it is reaped. there is a blood vine and wheat also in the revelation verses.

Ok but when things are down to the brass tax, like regardless of if you believe people will be raptured or not, do you still believe that we as believers will be before God and let into Heaven?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Ok but when things are down to the brass tax, like regardless of if you believe people will be raptured or not, do you still believe that we as believers will be before God and let into Heaven?

Revelation indicates that martyrs will be moaning wondering when their deaths will be avenged. When Jesus returns, it's with souls of saints who have not yet been resurrected.

I agree believers will be let into "the city" and won't be "outside with the dogs"

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Revelation indicates that martyrs will be moaning wondering when their deaths will be avenged. When Jesus returns, it's with souls of saints who have not yet been resurrected.

I agree believers will be let into "the city" and won't be "outside with the dogs"

Ok what about Daniel 12:2Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.

 

[Lost Witness]

Again and again it is said that no one knows when Jesus will return. But the Bible says exactly when Jesus will return. The scripture says that Jesus will come at the end of the reign of the Antichrist. We know that the Antichrist will reign for 3.5 years. So, assuming the reign of the Antichrist begins today, we know that Jesus will return in exactly 3.5 years.

Furthermore, this also disproves the idea that Jesus could return at any time. First of all, the Antichrist must appear, and since he has not yet appeared, we can say with absolute certainty that Jesus will not appear in the next 3.5 years.

“But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” Matthew 24:36
The LORD said no man, pretty sure he means 'no man', Period.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

“But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” Matthew 24:36
The LORD said no man, pretty sure he means 'no man', Period.

Thank you, it's frustrating when i feel like we need to go over scripture that is so plane, it feels like we are needing to go back to milk instead of solid food. But if that is true it is ok, so long as we move forward to solid food eventually. One man's faith allows him to eat only vegetables, another meat and vegetables, the one who eats vegetables should not look down at the one who eats meat, and the one who eats meat should not look down at the one who eats vegetables, for God has accepted them both.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Ok what about Daniel 12:2Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.

It is said in the proverbs that those who win souls are wise. Since the Christians are the first fruits of the new creation, light imagery is being used to describe our existence.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Do none of you know what this means??? It is from the ancient Jewish marriage custom. "I go to prepare a place for you"...so where I am you will also be....marriage supper of the lamb...we drink from the cup...a covenant of marriage...

 

[Timtofly]

Again and again it is said that no one knows when Jesus will return. But the Bible says exactly when Jesus will return. The scripture says that Jesus will come at the end of the reign of the Antichrist. We know that the Antichrist will reign for 3.5 years. So, assuming the reign of the Antichrist begins today, we know that Jesus will return in exactly 3.5 years.

Furthermore, this also disproves the idea that Jesus could return at any time. First of all, the Antichrist must appear, and since he has not yet appeared, we can say with absolute certainty that Jesus will not appear in the next 3.5 years.

It is Satan that is revealed, not some human.

Revelation 19 is not the Second Coming.

Revelation 6:9-17 is the Second Coming.

Since everyone will know when Revelation 19 will happen, is the very reason that is not the Second Coming.

The church has become complacent at times and has hidden Satan within her very apostasy at times. Does the world think Satan is as made up as even the concept of God? Have you not been paying attention to popular culture? Satan is more real and presented as plausible more than Jesus Christ these days. Even to the point of deceiving the church. Satan does not mind being honored by pop culture. But he certainly will not hold a press conference at the UN to declare the legitimacy of God's Word. Nor will the apostate church confess to the world they are in bed with Satan.

That will only be revealed when the cleansing fire of the Second Coming burns away all the works of man, and spiritual blindness is removed. At the Second Coming, Jesus sets up a throne and temple in Jerusalem and is declared King. That is the best news, and not part of Revelation's commentary, because Revelation is the judgments and not the blessings of the Second Coming.

People seem to refuse the idea Jesus is coming to set up His kingdom in the Seals. They are so caught up with the false idea of a post trouble Second Coming. Even those who claim a pre-trib rapture have it wrong, as the Second Coming is at the same time as the rapture, the 5th and 6th Seals.

 

[parousia70]

There is no scripture that teaches antichrist reigns over anything. If you have to add words to scriptures that aren't actually found in those scriptures to support your position, it should be your first clue that your position is what needs to change to support the scriptures as written.

 

[Timtofly]

The people swept away were the ones "who did not know"

But Noah was aware. It's about the wicked getting swept away.

The rapture is a judgment from God upon the wicked.

It even says when the angels first gather, they will gather the weeds and burn them in the fire.

Only the second gathering is for the wheat, which is stored in the barn.

This is after the Second Coming. Jesus is personally on earth sowing these seeds that become wheat. Read Matthew 13 carefully. Matthew 13 happens after the Second Coming and is not the church being taken away. Matthew 13 is covered by the 7 Thunders in Revelation 10, and John was told not to write down those events. They are not for Israel. They are not for the church. Both the church and Israel are taken away before this wheat and tare harvest.

And this is before the 7th Trumpet, and Satan's 42 months of AoD. Revelation is not a chronological jumble where we are told to re-arrange the events to fit our assumed opinions of how it plays out.

The church is removed in the Seals. The sheep and goats are Israel and removed in the first 6 Trumpets. The wheat and tares are removed in the Thunders. In that order and at separate times.

Then the 7th Trumpet is the victory celebration declaring the final harvest over, and all earthly kingdoms now belong to Christ.

Then the Atonement Covenant is confirmed. Only at that point will it be declared if Satan gets 42 months of AoD or not. This 42 months will only be known to happen at the 7th Trumpet. It is not a done fact as it has not happened yet. John gives both scenarios. Revelation 14 is without Satan's 42 months. Revelation 13, 16-19 is if they happen. Revelation 19 only happens in the worse case scenario. Revelation 14 happens as the best case scenario.

Satan is still bound in Revelation 20 either way. The only difference is no one will be beheaded and resurrected. The Millennium is for the sheep and wheat of the final harvest. It is not just for those beheaded. The firstfruits are those directly chosen by Jesus Christ to populate the Millennium Kingdom. The church remains in Paradise until she comes down in the New Jerusalem after the NHNE.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The church remains in Paradise until she comes down in the New Jerusalem after the NHNE.

I can't follow that Jewish mythology of the weeks, but I agree with the above point.

 

[Timtofly]

I can't follow that Jewish mythology of the weeks, but I agree with the above point.

Daniel 9:24 is Jewish Mythology?

Judaism does not even accept Daniel is a prophet. He probably lived on the Abraham side of the Euphrates River, but not good enough for strict Judaism.

So not sure what Jewish Mythology you are referring to.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Daniel 9:24 is Jewish Mythology?

Judaism does not even accept Daniel is a prophet. He probably lived on the Abraham side of the Euphrates River, but not good enough for strict Judaism.

So not sure what Jewish Mythology you are referring to.

That it wasn't fulfilled by the coming of Christ.

A series of weeks that magically paused at the coming of Christ, and will resume sometime in the future ... giving room for a Jew oriented mythology.

Directing eyes further away from Jesus.

 

[Timtofly]

That it wasn't fulfilled by the coming of Christ.

A series of weeks that magically paused at the coming of Christ, and will resume sometime in the future ... giving room for a Jew oriented mythology.

Directing eyes further away from Jesus.

Jesus is the 70th week. Take it or leave it. Jesus is not Jew oriented mythology.

I suppose the fulness of the Gentiles is also Jew oriented mythology from the first century Pharisee, Paul?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Jesus is the 70th week. Take it or leave it. Jesus is not Jew oriented mythology.

I suppose the fulness of the Gentiles is also Jew oriented mythology from the first century Pharisee, Paul?

Fullness of the gentiles, meaning it's the Jew's turn next is a Jewish Mythology.

Paul spoke of an event that already happened, Jews were re-grafted into the vine, and then there was no more Jew or Gentile, as it is also written.

 

[3 Resurrections]

No one is paying attention to the actual terms used in this verse about "No man knoweth the day nor the hour..." That verb "knoweth" was written in the PRESENT TENSE at the time. In other words, when those words were originally spoken, no one at that time then present knew the day nor the hour of Christ's return. Not even the incarnate Christ, who was afterward given this information by His Father once He finally ascended.

But that does not mean that no one would ever come to know that day and hour in the future after that verse was spoken. Neither does that verse say that no one should even attempt to figure out when that day and hour would occur, or that it would be a sin to do so.

In fact, the prophets Daniel and Zechariah gave not only the day, but the time of day when Christ would return. It would be exactly 1,335 days after two definite historical events took place during the same season. Once the believers saw those two prophesied events in Daniel 12:11 take place, all they would have to do would be to count down 1,335 days afterward, and a bodily resurrection at Christ's return would take place - a resurrection which Daniel was promised to share. Zechariah 14:7 even goes so far as to indicate that this return of Christ would take place "at evening time", when it was "neither day nor night" exactly. So, it would be twilight time at Jerusalem for Christ's return to the Mount of Olives.

The uncertainty of the day and the hour was based on no one knowing exactly when those two prophesied events in Daniel 12:11 would occur. Also on not knowing exactly when the cycle of the new moon would appear, which also figures into the timing for Christ's return. The Jews were given hints about this from all the way back in the post-exilic return times when their temple was rebuilt under Zerubbabel's hands. They were instructed in Ezekiel 46:1-3 to worship facing the eastern gate of the temple in the sabbaths and the new moons, because that eastern gate was the only one reserved exclusively for the "prince" to enter and leave from that location. This was symbolism for "Messiah the Prince" and the timing of His return to that location when the gate was finally shut (significantly like Zechariah 14:7) "at evening time".

 

[Timtofly]

Fullness of the gentiles, meaning it's the Jew's turn next is a Jewish Mythology.

Paul spoke of an event that already happened, Jews were re-grafted into the vine, and then there was no more Jew or Gentile, as it is also written.

Romans 11:2

"God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,"

Romans 11:25

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

Israel was set aside in part, not completely obliterated. After the fulness of the Gentiles is complete, God will return as Israel's King.

Is Paul preaching Jewish Mythology here?

If you say they have been grafted back in, that was at the Second Coming, and the fulness of the Gentiles ended as well.

The Second Coming has not happened yet.