Why we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath

[Hentenza]

We are getting into things we have already previously discussed. I am going to leave it as agree to disagree and it will get sorted out in God’s time.

And you are still to post a post resurrection verse that requires the Christian to keep the sabbath or a verse that teaches that the law was given to the gentiles. Until then your argument dies on its lack of evidence.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

And you are still to post a post resurrection verse that requires the Christian to keep the sabbath or a verse that teaches that the law was given to the gentiles. Until then your argument dies on its lack of evidence.

Personally I would be more concerned where is the verse that the God of the Universe told us we don’t have to keep the Sabbath commandment. What God blessed, man can’t reverse. Num 23:20 because man is not God Jesus never once said He changed the Sabbath before or after the Cross, He said not a jot or tittle shall pass from His law Mat5:18-19 yet alone an entire commandment. Jesus was on earth 40 days before ascending back to heaven, never once did He say He changed the Sabbath. We were warned this change would come but not from God Dan7:25

I will stick with what comes with the power of God’s blessing and sanctification. Only God has the power to bless a day Exo20:11 and bless man Isa56:2 only God has the power to sanctify a day Gen2:3 Exo20:11 and to sanctify us Eze20:12 both connected to the holy day of the Lord, the Sabbath Isa 58:13 Exo20:11, if one wishes to do something different life is about choices. We just will need to understand our decisions matter Rev22:11

 

[Studyman]

Amen.

In fact He tells Cain in Gen 4 "sin is at your door , you must master it" before Cain kills Able and before we find the scripture saying "you shall not murder'"

It is an interesting study for sure.

The Jesus "of the Bible" teaches His People to "Seek First" the Kingdom of God and "HIS Righteousness". And that a blessing comes to those who "Hunger and Thirst after God's Righteousness".

But For me, when I yielded myself to seek God's righteousness, I was broken. I found I was dead in trespasses and sins. My beliefs as to what was righteous and holy, shattered. My religious beliefs and traditions exposed as wrought in man and not God. At first the urge to defend myself was strong, I was offended by what Jesus was teaching me. My flesh pushed hard to "Hide from much of the Word of God", for the purpose of preserving "my" religious traditions, "my" pride, "my" fleshy desires. And there were lots of religions in the world God placed me in that told me, "Come as you are", and "they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you".

But the story about Cain really helped me to understand the internal battle I was loosing. Why my flesh was working so hard to silence the Word of God in me? Why Cain hated Abel so much?

It is my understanding that every man ever born is confronted by their human flesh, no different than Cain and Abel. And we are to "rule over it" as you so correctly point out, and as Paul also teaches.

Rom. 6: 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

How can this even be possible unless we "seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness", and (Then) all these things shall be added unto you.

So I was broken, but only the carnal part of me, for my preservation. As Jesus said:

Matt. 10: 38 And he that taketh not his cross, (Flesh, in my view) and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

I still carry it, as God designed, but it doesn't rule over me, at least as long as I keep on the Armor of God. I am overcome by it for time to time, to my shame. But still, I don't look back, but press for the mark of the Prize of the high calling of God, the perfection that is in Christ Jesus.

This is not even possible without the Sabbath Fast commanded by God. To dedicate the 7th day of the week, a fast from the world. As we are, like Lot, "dwelling among children of disobedience, in seeing and hearing, vexing the righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds) ".

What I saw as a "Cost" in the beginning, loosing 52 pay days a year, missing opening day of trout season, I now consider as dung compared to the blessing and understanding we have received.

Striving to put on the New Man, "which after God (Not my Flesh) is created in righteousness and true holiness".

Like Abel.

Sorry so long winded, it's been a hard week, and I am so grateful for the God Provided Break. I loved your reference to Cain and Able, as it pertained to the Righteousness of God that existed in the very beginning.

Hope you Sabbath is refreshing.

 

[Freth]

Not really. People read and interpret with the idea of defending their pet doctrines. Most have no clue how to eisegete a verse.

Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath. The early church knew that it was to celebrate the resurrection day not the day that Jesus was still dead.

In context:

Mark 2:27-28 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.​

​

The very reason Jesus calls Himself Lord of the Sabbath is because the Sabbath was made for man (therefore). Pointing directly to creation and the Sabbath sanctified. Sunday resurrection taking the place of the Sabbath is nowhere to be found anywhere in scripture.

"The early church knew," and took it upon itself to change the law of God (prophesied by Daniel 7:25) and make it of none effect (Matthew 15:1-9).

Jesus settles the issue concerning Sunday, which is a commandment of man not a commandment of God.

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.​

 

[Studyman]

Abraham was marred to his half sister. Genesis 12:5 According to the law Deuteronomy 27:5 & 22 Leviticus 18:9 Leviticus 20:17 Ezekiel 22:11

Abraham was married long before he was called by God to leave the religions of his father. This is no proof that God's Law didn't exist. Hopefully God doesn't hold the sins of Abraham against him, before God showed him "the way of the Lord". Otherwise we are all doomed.

Abraham also committed adultery with Sarahs handmade to give birth to Ishmael.

Sarah gave her handmade to be Abram's wife. How is Abram guilty of transgressing God's Laws, by marrying her?

Ex. 21: 10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.

There were no law of Noah, it’s not in the scriptures. This fellow who says there is has dreamt them up in his own carnal mind.

This is true, in my understanding as well.

The Ten Commandments and law of Moses were completely unknown to everyone before Moses just as Moses said,

Moses never said any such thing. The Bible doesn't support the popular religious philosophy that the Laws, Judgments, Statutes and Commandments God gave Abraham to obey, are different than the Laws, Judgments, Statutes and Commandments God gave Abraham's Children to obey.

but this fellow has like the vast majority does, make things up the defy scripture.

This is true, in my view as well..

 

[Hentenza]

In context:

Mark 2:27-28 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.​

​

The very reason Jesus calls Himself Lord of the Sabbath is because the Sabbath was made for man (therefore). Pointing directly to creation and the Sabbath sanctified. Sunday resurrection taking the place of the Sabbath is nowhere to be found anywhere in scripture.

No. The main reason why Jesus is Lord of the sabbath is because He is Lord if everything else. Notice the word “also” used in your translation. The Greek word Kai could be cumulative and translate as also or even. The context here begins in verse 23. Jesus was accused of picking heads of grain from the fields by the Pharisees. Jesus in turn tells the the story if David eating the consecrated bread reserved for the priests because he was hungry. Both Jesus and His disciples had the same practical need that David had, they were hungry. Doing good during the sabbath was good not bad as the Pharisees made it to be.

“And it happened that He was passing through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples began to make their way along while picking the heads of grain. The Pharisees were saying to Him, “Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?” And He *said to them, “Have you never read what David did when he was in need and he and his companions became hungry; how he entered the house of God in the time of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the consecrated bread, which is not lawful for anyone to eat except the priests, and he also gave it to those who were with him?” Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2‬:‭23‬-‭28‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Mark 2:23-28 And it happened that He was passing through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples began to make their way along while picking the heads of grain. The Pharisees were saying to Him, “Look, w | New American Standard Bible - NASB

And it happened that He was passing through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples began to make their way along while picking the heads of grain. The Pharisees were saying to Him, “Look, w

bible.com

The same thing happened when Jesus healed the man with the withered hand during the sabbath (Mark 3:1-6). The sabbath was supposed to remove burden from the Israelites but instead became a burden because of their traditions. The Pharisees began to plot with the Herodians to get rid of Jesus after this.

So Jesus then took over the sabbath. Jesus us the alpha and the omega so Jesus started the sabbath and He took it back. The sabbath was made for man but man perverted the sabbath. Jesus is now Lord of the sabbath, along with everything else, because Jesus did all of the work necessary for our salvation.

Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets (Matt. 5:17) and the culmination of the law (Rom. 10:4). We rest, spiritually, in Him. He has secured our eternal blessing.

"The early church knew," and took it upon itself to change the law of God (prophesied by Daniel 7:25) and make it of none effect (Matthew 15:1-9).

Nope. The early church did not change the day, Jesus did. The early church knew that the law did not apply to the church and that Jesus was the sabbath rest.

Jesus settles the issue concerning Sunday, which is a commandment of man not a commandment of God.

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.​

Nothing here about the sabbath. Think about what follows the verses you posted. Those that preach the law are blind guides of blind people.

“But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted. Leave them alone; they are blind guides of blind people. And if a person who is blind guides another who is blind, both will fall into a pit.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭15‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 15:13-14 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted. Leave them alone; they are blind guides of blind people. And if a person who is blind guides another who | New American Standard Bible -

But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted. Leave them alone; they are blind guides of blind people. And if a person who is blind guides another who

bible.com

 

[ARBITER01]

Premises:
1. The Sabbath was a part of the Mosaic Law and of the Mosaic Law only.
2. The Law was only for Jews, since Moses till Christ.
3. Even the book of Genesis was a theological part of the Mosaic Law and is not literal (namely in its creation account).

If these premises are all true, we are not supposed to keep the Sabbath.

If people are obeying Moses instead of Jesus, then Jesus is not Lord in their lives.

 

[DamianWarS]

Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The context of what laws Christ is referring to is established in v17, saying "the law and the prophets," which is an all-inclusive term rather than one that isolates a subset. In this context (same verse), Christ says "I have not come to abolish them [the law and the prophets] but to fulfill them [the law and the prophets]" How we understand Christ having fulfilled a specific subset of laws, like circumcision or the sacrifice, should extend to the whole as is the context.

This also applies to how we understand "whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments..." as it applies to the context of the law and the prophets, not a unique subset. So how we understand us not breaking circumcision or not breaking the sacrifice can be applied to the entire law rather than a segregated portion of it, which is never taught.

By also using "the least" reference, Christ is also levelling our qualitative judgments of law and instead he says breaking any of them is the same as breaking all of them or the same as breaking unique subset that we deem as better or arbitrarily call moral over the rest. So whatever we remove from the equation, Christ is pulling it back in saying they are all treated qualitatively the same regardless of our superficial labels we may give them (sacrafical, ceremonial, moral, etc...). He is not dividing law, he is ensuring they are viewed as a whole, rejecting any idea we may have to separate them.

The commandments Jesus is referring to is directly from the Ten Commandments and quotes two as the whole law He is referring, as they always came in a unit of Ten according to God. Deut4:13 Exo34:28 breaking one we break them all even in the NC James2:10-11

Christ does quote from 10 but in a diminutive way, "You have heard that it was said to those of old" then goes on telling us a better way. So he tells us an older way, then shows us a better way, that better way is uniquely from Christ saying "But I say..." this creates a contrast between the ways of the old (the law) with the ways of Christ, showing Christ's way is better. Better than what? Better than the law.

Christ also quotes outside the law with the "eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" and in like manner shows us a better way (again, diminutively referencing to the law portion or "way of old". So this does not agree with the logic that Christ is isolating and elevating a subset (the 10), but rather whatever he is referring to, must also include the "eye for an eye" rule and he is also not elevating but demoting. What he shows is his way is better so it seems a moot point what he is trying to deemphasize since his gaze is on his ways not the old ways. if you study the origins of these laws Christ is not referencing the 10 but instead the covenant relationship established under Moses.

The 10 commandments were first given in Ex 20. this is before Moses climbed the mountain and before they were etched in stone (then the tablets were destroyed) and etched in stone again. Moses climbs the mountain in Ex 24 but starting at Ex 20 there are numerous laws delivered as a whole with the 10 not separate to them. The 10 kick it off in Ex 20 and immediately following in Ex 21 speaks of the "eye for the eye" rule (with specific examples of what to do when you take someone's eye or tooth). This is all in the same event; there is no break in the event and what this event describes is the covenant relationship established under Moses's leadership, often called the Mosaic covenant.

"Mosaic" or "of Moses" is a theological term that does not mean Moses owns it or authored the laws; it a reference to time and place of when the covenant was formed. The covenant has multiple events where Israel affirms it and this is such an event, but these events are not there to segment the law, it is a constant reminder and a type of phased unpacking of the covenant relationship, but it is all the same covenant relationship. They are all from God, and all part of the same covenant. Ex 24 opens with all the elders gathered, and Moses wrote all the words of the Lord down (from Ex 20-23, including the 10 and the "eye for an eye" rule and many others) then a blood covenant was established under these laws. Then, Moses was invited up to the mountain where the tablets were given to him later on.

So what is Christ contrasting diminutively with his own words? He is contrasting the covenant established under Moses which includes the 10 but is not limited to the 10, and his reference is diminutive so his focus is not fixed on the diminutive part but rather the better way which is a direct contrast to this older system. This passage cannot be used to isolate and elevate the 10 in anyway, two things it definitely does establish (as it pertains to the 10), is that the 10 is part of greater grouping/covenant of laws/commandments (not isolated) and is deemphasized (Christ shows us a better way) over Christ's way. This is the exact opposite point you seem to be trying to make which questions your ability to understand the passage without this extreme bias since it is written so plainly in the text.

 

[Studyman]

If people are obeying Moses instead of Jesus, then Jesus is not Lord in their lives.

Jesus said;

Matt. 22: 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Both of these Commandments were given by Moses to mankind, being directed to do so by the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, the God and Father of all, and Jesus said I am to "Observe and Do" them. (Matt. 23:1,2).

The deceiver would have us believe "Moses" created Commandments, and that we are not to obey him. But this is a false teaching. The Laws given by Moses came from the Very Mouth of God. The Jesus "of the Bible" says clearly that we are "Live by" every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Refusing to "do" as Jesus instructs, would be in direct violation of the Commandments set forth by the Lord's Christ Himself.

Paul teaches this as well.

Rom. 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that "ye present" your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable "unto God", which is "your reasonable service".

2 And be not conformed to this world: (Including it's religions) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, "that ye may prove" what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The context of what laws Christ is referring to is established in v17, saying "the law and the prophets," which is an all-inclusive term rather than one that isolates a subset.

No because the next verse speaks of a law that not a jot or tittle can pass from.

We already know the law of Moses what was outside the ark was never meant to be permeant from Scripture, written on ink by man on scrolls. Deut 31:24-26

But if we allow Scripture to define Scripture two predictions Jesus would do about the laws and He fulfilled both. One He put and end to, the other He magnified and made greater.

Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

So it can't be the "entire" law that not a jot or tittle can pass from because clearly there was a jot or tittle that ended from the law of Moses.

That leaves the Ten Commandments- what the Holy Spirit of Truth wrote and written in stone for its eternal nature that is under the mercy seat of God in His ark and in heaven Rev15:5 Rev11:19. If there was going to be a law that not a jot or tittle would pass from, just using our God-given common sense would it be laws written by man on paper, or the law of God written by God personally Himself that He placed inside His ark on stone?

Thankfully we do not need to guess Jesus literally spelled this out.....

This is the law not a jot or tittle that would pass because He was predicted to MAGNIFY these laws

Isa 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Magnify means greater, not smaller or end, which law that not a jot or tittle will pass from that He made larger? Jesus tells us in the same passage, so no need to lean on our own understanding....

This is the Law not a jot or tittle can pass from yet alone an entire comamndment or two if we are going to place our faith in what Jesus says.

Mat 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to those [d]of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you (magnified) that whoever is angry with his brother [e]without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’[f] shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, [g]‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of [h]hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.

​

27 “You have heard that it was said [i]to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you (magnified) that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to [j]sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to [k]sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Jesus is of course quoting the Ten Commandments, what He personally wrote that He did not come to destroy but to fulfill, which He predicted He would magnify, means make greater and Jesus did just that. He is addresses the real issue, which is the heart, so we we are not subjecting ourselves to the law of God Rom8:7-8 the heart is the issue. If we go to Jesus and ask His help in changing our heart and allowing Him to do so, the law of God would be happily kept by love and we would not break or want to break the least of these commandments, because we love Jesus Exo20:6 John14:15 and want to serve Him Isa56:6

Not a jot or tittle can pass from this Law because no one is above God. Its that simple. Trying to edit, change, explain to be different than what God said plainly sadly ends up doing exactly what Jesus warned about in this very passage Mat5:19-20. In my view its best to let God be God to define what belongs to Him and He does clearly. Sadly man just doesn't like it so instead of just embracing, looks for ways around it. This is nothing new, why many before us never entered into their promise land (rest) because of disobedience. Eze 20:15-16 Heb4:11 what He is trying to get our attention on if we hear Him Heb3:7-19

 

[ARBITER01]

Jesus said;

Matt. 22: 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Both of these Commandments were given by Moses to mankind, being directed to do so by the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, the God and Father of all, and Jesus said I am to "Observe and Do" them. (Matt. 23:1,2).

The deceiver would have us believe "Moses" created Commandments, and that we are not to obey him. But this is a false teaching. The Laws given by Moses came from the Very Mouth of God. The Jesus "of the Bible" says clearly that we are "Live by" every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Refusing to "do" as Jesus instructs, would be in direct violation of the Commandments set forth by the Lord's Christ Himself.

Paul teaches this as well.

Rom. 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that "ye present" your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable "unto God", which is "your reasonable service".

2 And be not conformed to this world: (Including it's religions) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, "that ye may prove" what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

I think you're confused, but if you really insist, you can form your Aaronic priesthood and start sacrificing animals after you build your temple since you think you are a child of Moses instead of Abraham.

For me,.... GOD seated Jesus at the right of HIM, not moses, so Jesus is the one Who I'm going to listen to and obey,...



8 And though being a Son, He learned obedience from that which He suffered,

9 And being perfected, He became The Author of Eternal Salvation unto all those obeying Him,

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I think you're confused, but if you really insist, you can form your Aaronic priesthood and start sacrificing animals after you build your temple since you think you are a child of Moses instead of Abraham.

For me,.... GOD seated Jesus at the right of HIM, not moses, so Jesus is the one Who I'm going to listen to and obey,...



8 And though being a Son, He learned obedience from that which He suffered,

9 And being perfected, He became The Author of Eternal Salvation unto all those obeying Him,

That includes Paul too. For those who misunderstand him which we would not if we elevated God.

The Ten Commandments is owned by God, He claimed them as a unit of Ten Himself as His covenant Deut4:13 His Testimony Exo31:18 His commandments Exo20:6 His works Exo 32:16, contains His seal (name, territory, title) Exo20:11 the are inside His ark Exo40:20 Rev 11:19 they are not owned by Moses or Paul, they are God's. God's people keep God's Laws that only He can define, by faith and love Exo20:6 John14:15 Rev14:12 Rev22:14

 

[Studyman]

The context of what laws Christ is referring to is established in v17, saying "the law and the prophets," which is an all-inclusive term rather than one that isolates a subset. In this context (same verse), Christ says "I have not come to abolish them [the law and the prophets] but to fulfill them [the law and the prophets]" How we understand Christ having fulfilled a specific subset of laws, like circumcision or the sacrifice, should extend to the whole as is the context.

From the very beginning, according to the Holy Inspired Word of God, these are spiritual forces in this world whose sole purpose is to turn men away from obedience to the Word of God. This spirit, as the Scriptures clearly show, "Professes to know God" and it quotes "some" of God's Word in it's mission. God gave us an example of this in the beginning of the Bible with Eve, in His Love and Mercy, for our admonition.

The Holy Bible, that Apostle Paul said was inspired by the Great God of Abraham, was written for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works, and is full of examples of men who placed their trust, AKA "Faith" in this God and "His Word".

This same "Bible" is also full of examples of men who were turned aside from honoring this God with respect and obedience, by voices inspired by the "other spirit" in it's aforementioned mission. In my understanding, God has given us these examples to choose between, because HE, as His Son tells us, "for the Father seeketh such to worship him".

He could just make us worship Him, but there is something Holy and Precious to Him for a mortal being with reason and free will, to choose of our own free will, to trust Him in our short existence on earth. He has a great Gift to give, as Paul teaches, "To them who by patient continuance in well doing "seek for" glory and honour and immortality, This gift is immortality in a world with no pain, no sorrow, and no evil.

Jesus said that if we want to enter this "Life", we are to Keep the Commandments "of God". This is the Theme throughout the entire Bible.

This same God, who knows the end from the beginning, knew that this worlds religions would accuse Jesus of rejecting or abolishing God's Law, which is widely taught by the religions of this world God placed me in, and therefore placed in His Inspired Scripture, the Words of Jesus you have referenced.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Of course all has not yet been fulfilled, because Jesus has not yet returned to raise the dead. And if HE doesn't return to Raise the Dead, then the Faith of Abel to Paul, including your faith and mine, is in vain.

The Circumcision God required through Moses, that is, "Circumcision of the Heart" is essential for salvation. To sacrifice the old self, and to "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. is a requirement for Salvation, without which no man can enter the Kingdom of God.

So my friend, be careful that you don't listen to all the many "other voices" in this world, that "come in Christ's Name" that the Jesus of the bible warned us about. And consider that in the referenced Scriptures, "Destroy and Fulfil" are opposites in their meaning, not the same.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The early church did not change the day, Jesus did.

Where from the mouth of Jesus did He say He changed His holy day, in clear easy to understand plain Scripture just the way He gave it, written and spoken by Him, that comes with His blessings and sanctification. One verse where Jesus said, we no longer need to keep the Sabbath comamndment.. You didn't provide Scripture, just your own words and seem to be taking the liberty of speaking for Jesus.

Jesus in His words indicted clearly not a jot or tittle shall pass from His law Mat5:18. He said in His own words the Sabbath would continue after He ratified His covenant by His blood Mat24:20, why His apostles was keeping every Sabbath decades later Acts15:21 Acts 18:4 just as Jesus indicated , nothing can be added after Jesus died, it would make His sacrifice in vain as it was once and for all Heb10:10

The Sabbath continues coming before the Lord for worship in the New Heaven and New Earth for His saints, does not say any other day, thus saith the Lord Isa66:22-23

If you have a quote from Jesus that He changed His Sabbath comamndment, please share, otherwise I might consider the implications of claiming Jesus said this, when He clearly in His own words said the opposite.

 

[Studyman]

I think you're confused, but if you really insist, you can form your Aaronic priesthood and start sacrificing animals after you build your temple since you think you are a child of Moses instead of Abraham.

Why would I continue in the Law of the Priesthood "After the Order of Aaron", when the Law and Prophets Prophesied of the coming of a New Priest, "After the Order of Melchizedek"? In your religion, Jesus is this Prophesied Priest, Yes?

And didn't God tell Moses:

Deut. 18: 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. In your Bible, what did Jesus instruct in Matthew 23:1-3? And shouldn't a person OBEY JESUS?

The Jesus "of the Bible" said that those who do the "Works of Abraham" are the Children of Abraham. So according to this same God and Father of the Lord's Christ, whose Word's the Jesus "of the Bible" instructed me "Live By", what were those works? Here, let me show you God's Own Words, as HE tells you what the Works of Abraham were.

Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Didn't God also give Abraham's Children His Laws, His Statutes and His Commandments?

And if not, then please tell me whose Laws, Commandments and Statutes God gave?

For me,.... GOD seated Jesus at the right of HIM, not moses, so Jesus is the one Who I'm going to listen to and obey,...

8 And though being a Son, He learned obedience from that which He suffered,

9 And being perfected, He became The Author of Eternal Salvation unto all those obeying Him,

I appreciate your zeal, but I'm not sure what Jesus you are referring to. The Jesus "of the Bible" said:

Matt. 23: 1 Then spake "Jesus" to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 "All therefore" whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

But we no longer have to go to the Levite Priest or Scribe to hear Moses and do as he instructs, as the Jesus "of the Bible" commands us. We have the oracles of God in our own home now. "WE" sit in Moses Seat, and therefore we can read God's Words to us through Moses ourself.

Not sure what Jesus you are obeying here.

 

[ARBITER01]

Why would I continue in the Law of the Priesthood "After the Order of Aaron", when the Law and Prophets Prophesied of the coming of a New Priest, "After the Order of Melchizedek"? In your religion, Jesus is this Prophesied Priest, Yes?

And didn't God tell Moses:

Deut. 18: 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. In your Bible, what did Jesus instruct in Matthew 23:1-3? And shouldn't a person OBEY JESUS?

The Jesus "of the Bible" said that those who do the "Works of Abraham" are the Children of Abraham. So according to this same God and Father of the Lord's Christ, whose Word's the Jesus "of the Bible" instructed me "Live By", what were those works? Here, let me show you God's Own Words, as HE tells you what the Works of Abraham were.

Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Didn't God also give Abraham's Children His Laws, His Statutes and His Commandments?

And if not, then please tell me whose Laws, Commandments and Statutes God gave?






I appreciate your zeal, but I'm not sure what Jesus you are referring to. The Jesus "of the Bible" said:

Matt. 23: 1 Then spake "Jesus" to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 "All therefore" whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

But we no longer have to go to the Levite Priest or Scribe to hear Moses and do as he instructs, as the Jesus "of the Bible" commands us. We have the oracles of God in our own home now. "WE" sit in Moses Seat, and therefore we can read God's Words to us through Moses ourself.

Not sure what Jesus you are obeying here.

Sorry, you're gonna have to do better than that. This isn't about me.

As I said, if you're obeying Moses instead of Jesus, then Jesus is not Lord in your heart,.... no matter how much you try to spin it otherwise.

 

[rstrats]

I go to church on Sundays, on the Lord’s day.

As Freth touched on, what scripture do you have which refers to the first day of the week as the Lord's Day?

 

[Studyman]

This also applies to how we understand "whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments..." as it applies to the context of the law and the prophets, not a unique subset. So how we understand us not breaking circumcision or not breaking the sacrifice can be applied to the entire law rather than a segregated portion of it, which is never taught.

It seems you are either omitting, or have not read about the Prophesied Priest that was to come, who ushered in a prophesied New Priesthood Covenant for the remission of Sins. It is written that the Priesthood "works" for remission of sins under the Priesthood "After the Order of Aaron", which was temporary from it's conception and included various animal sacrifices and works of that Priesthood Law for remission of sins, was to pass away "after those days", replaced by the Priesthood "works" of a New Priesthood covenant, "After the Order of Melchizedek", in which the Priest offers His Own Blood, and sacrifices His Own Self, for the remission of sins. This is a pretty important part of the Gospel of Christ, I'm not sure why you don't speak of it.

In my understanding, Jesus is this New High Priest. Therefore, if a man continues in the sacrifices and ceremonies of the Old Priesthood, after this Prophesied High Priest has come, would that in itself not be "Transgressing God's Laws"? After all, Moses did say:

Diet. 18: 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

As to circumcision, this world's religions are obsessed with the loose skin on a man's penis. Personally I don't think God really cared about the foreskin of the penis, as much as the fleshy heart. And HE said as much if a man is interested in His Every Word. How was a person to even know if a man was circumcised or not in the OT? Did Holy men of God walk around flashing their privates? Actually, that was forbidden by God's Law. It was always about Circumcision of the heart, as Moses teaches. And it was always considered a token between God and man.

But the "other voice" mentioned in my last reply, has used it to justify disobedience to God for centuries. I am convinced God didn't give this statute of Circumcision, so that preachers, "who profess to know God" could use it to justify the abolition of the entire Law of God.

I could be wrong, but have not Scriptures support for this popular religious philosophy of this world.

By also using "the least" reference, Christ is also levelling our qualitative judgments of law and instead he says breaking any of them is the same as breaking all of them or the same as breaking unique subset that we deem as better or arbitrarily call moral over the rest. So whatever we remove from the equation, Christ is pulling it back in saying they are all treated qualitatively the same regardless of our superficial labels we may give them (sacrafical, ceremonial, moral, etc...). He is not dividing law, he is ensuring they are viewed as a whole, rejecting any idea we may have to separate them.

But remember, Gods Himself separated the Priesthood Law according to the "Order" in which it was established. And God has always separated Sacrificial Law, for the rest of His Laws.

1 Sam. 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness "is as iniquity and idolatry". Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

So I agree with you in part, that "WE" have no right or authority to Judge God's Law, one as greater than another. But "GOD" has the right to do so, and HE has, as is clearly evident in the Scripture above, and "many" more spoken by Him throughout the Bible.

The philosophy that a man can reject God's Laws, despise His Judgments, reject or pollute His Sabbaths, and then show up with the Blood of an innocent being, "as per the Law", and be justified is a falsehood. As Paul teaches, "No Flesh is justified by "works of the Law".

 

[ARBITER01]

I don't really want to prolong this too much, because I view all of those people promoting Moses and the Sinai covenant of the Jews to be false teachers on here (which is why I have some of them on ignore), but in scripture, there are plenty of areas confirming to us who we are to listen to and obey,....

2Pe 3:1 This is now, beloved, the second letter that I have written to you; and in both of them I stir up your sincere mind by reminding you;

2Pe 3:2 that you should remember the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and the commandment(s) of the Lord and Savior through your apostles:

When a supposed Christian has an inordinate amount of focus on the law of Moses instead of The Lord Jesus and what He taught His Apostles, then most likely they are only promoting a personal belief. They've been carried away by a strange doctrine.

If they can't see how the scriptures, in many areas, tell us that the old covenant was fulfilled and a new one in the blood of Jesus was started that replaced it, then most likely they only have their minds changed, not their hearts.

Jesus is not going to promote the old covenant that he died to replace.

 

[Studyman]

Christ does quote from 10 but in a diminutive way, "You have heard that it was said to those of old" then goes on telling us a better way. So he tells us an older way, then shows us a better way, that better way is uniquely from Christ saying "But I say..." this creates a contrast between the ways of the old (the law) with the ways of Christ, showing Christ's way is better. Better than what? Better than the law.

I know you are just furthering what this world's religions have taught you, and you genuinely believe what you just posted. And it is doubtful, as Jesus declares, that you will be persuaded of anything different.

Nevertheless, because of Love for the brethren, I would like to share with you and those reading along, the error in this popular religious philosophy of this world.

#1. To believe you, I would have to believe that the "Them of Old Time" He is speaking to in Matt. 5, is God, and the Prophet HE Sent, and that Jesus came to destroy their teaching, so that men would be discouraged to no longer "Live By" the Word's Jesus said to Live By. But when you actually read what Jesus is saying, He isn't correcting His Father and the Prophets, HE is exposing the teaching of the Pharisees. Jesus just said:

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Remember, these preachers, as did their fathers, "omitted the weightier matters of the Law". They transgressed God's Commandments by their own religious traditions. Please look at the first "LAW" you are claiming God didn't teach, but Jesus did.

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

So what does the Law of God say?

Lev. 19: 17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

So Jesus is just repeating what the Law and Prophets, and HE Himself has taught about the "Jews Religion" from the beginning.

Like it was pointed out to you earlier, the devils mission is to turn men away from obedience to God. And to do that, it "Professes to know God", like the serpent in the garden, and it quotes "Some" of God's Word, like the serpent in the garden. And Jesus Himself called these Pharisees and scribes, "children of the devil". Malachi said of their fathers: "Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been "partial in the law".

In every verse where Jesus is exposing the "Them of old time", He shows what the Words of God the corrupt priests quoted, and followed up with the Words of God they omitted. I'll give you a couple more examples, in the in sincere hope you might consider.

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Duet. 24: 1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found "some uncleanness in her": then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

Jer. 3: 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Matt. 19: 7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, "except it be for fornication", and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Again, the "them of old time" promoted divorce for any reason. But the LAW only gave ONE reason for divorce. This is clear as a bell, for those who are interested in what is actually written. Lets examine another.

33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

34 But I say unto you, "Swear not at all"; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

What does the LAW say?

Deut. 5: 21 When thou shalt vow a vow unto the LORD thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for the LORD thy God will surely require it of thee; and it would be sin in thee. 22 But if thou shalt "forbear to vow", it shall be no sin in thee.

In every case Jesus is pointing out the "LAW" that the "them of Old Time" omitted.

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Lev. 19: 18 Thou shalt "not avenge", nor "bear any grudge" against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

The teaching that Jesus, who had just said "except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.", but then went on to diminish His Father and the Prophets His Father sent, is really wicked and not true. You mean well, I don't think you are promoting such a falsehood on purpose. And we have all been deceived in our lives.

But I hope you will consider that the "Them of Old Time", in Matt. 5, right after Jesus said HE didn't come to destroy the Law and Prophets, is NOT His Father and the Prophets, but the Fathers of the Pharisees, who were, as it is written and told us by Jesus Himself, "omitted the weightier matters of the Law".

Remember, The Christ Jesus "IS" the LAW of God who came in the Flesh.