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Well...let's see. In the 20th century aloneWell, I'd say your odds of being correct are almost next to nill. No seals have been opened.
This being Passover, I feel this is the perfect time to focus on why just as Jesus fulfilled the Passover, He fulfilled the temple too!
Many that hold that there will be a 3rd temple are hard pressed to justify that from scripture.
The wars and rumors of wars are not fulfilled IMO... I think it refers to a time when the 10 kingdoms arise... So not yet fulfilled..these wars take place during the rise of a false messiah in Israel
Yeah, I probably agree........but I just can't prove it one way or another. As for the seals we can prove they are not open if we understand what the white horse is.
Well...let's see. In the 20th century alone
*World War 1, World War II, Korean War, Viet Nam War...need I go on?
*How about earthquakes? Too many to count!!!
*Famines? Too many to count!!!
*Pestilences? Too many to count!!!
The seals are opened!!!
Did Jesus not say "destroy this temple, and I will raise it up in three days."?Will there be a LITERAL physical coming of Jesus in flesh and bones ?
If yes, then a temple must be literal as well.... don't you think so...
If no, then it all makes sense...
Did Jesus not say "destroy this temple, and I will raise it up in three days."?
John told you He was speaking of His body...therefore Jesus IS the fulfillment of the temple. What happened in the temple?...Sacrifice and worship. Jesus came as "THE LAMB OF GOD SLAIN FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD". We now sacrifice our bodies for His Holy Spirit to work in us and through us (Romans 12:1, 2), and He is who we worship.
In Hebrews 9 it says Jesus sacrificed Himself "ONCE AND FOR ALL"!!!
When Jesus appeared to Thomas...He said "a spirit does not have flesh and bone as I have"., therefore, Jesus is still the temple..and there's no need for this third temple, because Jesus sacrifice did away with ALL SACRFICE FOR SIN!!!
Hebrews 9:23-28 makes it perfectly clear.
No they are not. Read what Jesus said. He said they are "the beginning of birth pangs".The future wars famines pestilence and earthquakes are specific for a specific time period..a time during the false messianic age....then these signs will be seen along with the seals open
Nonsense. Go back and read what Jesus said. He told the disciple that THEY would be hearing it too...so it has to be throughout time, until Chris returns.Beware of a false messianic age yet to come... In which 10 kingdoms form.... And Babylon rises ... And the third temple is built..and persecution rises... Men are judge... Laodicia will judge by noachide and Torah laws...
Then the final 7 years begin when a white horse rider seeks this false messianic age for himself....
Wrong again.There is a need for a temple in the true millennium... For Jesus will build a temple and it will be glorious... Sacrifices are made as a memorial of the sacrifices of the messiah... In honor of Christ work... This is how man will worship Christ in the millennium ...
But when the next (3rd) temple is built by a false messiah.. God will destroy this temple... For it is not the true millennial temple that god wanted to be built... For god wants the temple to be built when the true messianic age comes under his son...so the 4th temple will be the true temple of god and Jesus will build it and fulfill prophecy of ezek temple...
No they are not. Read what Jesus said. He said they are "the beginning of birth pangs".
So, all the wars, famines, earthquakes etc...are typical of what we will see until Christ returns
Nonsense. Go back and read what Jesus said. He told the disciple that THEY would be hearing it too...so it has to be throughout time, until Chris returns.
Read it:
Matthew 24:
4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you.
5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.
6 You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.
Now...the disciples asked the questions...so the pronoun "you" means them.
Jesus goes on to tell them before those things happened the persecution would rise ans many of them would be killed!
Matthew 24:9:
9“Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
Do we not find this happening in Acts?
* Acts 7...Stephen is martyred.
*Acts 8...tells us a great persecution began at the Church in Jerusalem.
* Acts 12...James is martyred and Peter is arrested.
Jesus was point on...and the seals have been opened!
Wrong again.
The temple is all believers...WHY DO YOU THINK PETER CALLS US LIVING STONES???
1 Peter 2:4, 5:
4 And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God,
5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
That's your temple and sacrifice my friend..IT IS A SPIRITUAL ENTITY!!!
We shall see... Which comes first... Jesus? as you say... Or a false messianic age as I believe....
If Jesus actually come next... You may be correct
If a false messiah comes first ( which Jesus clearly warns about) then you will be wrong
So in your scenario ... There will be no false messiah and false messianic age..no man of sin comes with his aod.... Only Jesus returns who begins the messianic kingdom at any time and all should follow this christ to come and messianic age...
In my scenario ... There will be a false man of sin (pope?king?islamic ruler?)...then there will come a false messiah...then there will be a false messianic age 1st ... Then the true man of sin comes....Then Christ returns...
We shall see....
Let me add that this false messianic age is suppose to be an age of great deception... Mystery Babylon with all her powers and technologies shall seek to decieve With Sorcery magic... They will create signs in the sky ... To decieve.. It will be a different world.... An age of great technological deception... Be not decieve....
The Beginning of sorrows is a description of the days when man seeks to create a man made messianic age
1 A false man of sin comes ( he is a puppet and created antichrist)
2 Wars and rumors of wars (between this created antichrist and false messiah)
3 * the false messiah rules from Israel (king of Israel)
4 a temple is built
5 10 kingdoms rise
6 Babylon rises
Because of the deception of a messianic age forced upon the world.... God shall send the final antichrist or man of sin as punishment....
*I'm not sure if this first false king of Israel will claim to be Jesus (yeshua) or comes in his own name...
I don't think so. When Jesus came He clearly stated worship was to be spiritual worship. He stated that correcting the "woman at the well" in John 4:23, 24:There were two temples in Jesus day.... One temple speaking of the body...a spiritual temple.....and one literal temple... The one Jesus cast out the money exchangers
This didn't occur until Pentecost of Acts 2. Prior to that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross ENDED temple sacrifice and worship. That is why the veil of the temple is torn in half in Matthew 27:50-53. The phenomenon there is indicating the end of temple sacrifice.Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit working in us
The temple in Ezekiel is never to be physically built!! Israel never returned to God. They rejected Messiah. Ezekiel was told "If Israel was ashamed that he was to show them the design of the temple (which is a heavenly temple). That is found in Ezekiel 43:10-12:The temple in ezek is a literal temple yet to be built... It's the forth temple used for literal purposes
Rebuilding the Temple
The prophetic Scriptures clearly predict that the Third Temple will be built and the sacrifices reinstated, in the final years leading up to the Return of the Messiah. It is clear, too, that there will be more than just the Jewish people living in the Land of Greater Israel. All the Israelites from all 12 tribes of Israel, will migrate to New Israel soon after the Lords Day of vengeance and wrath, the terrible Day of fire and storms, that will clear and cleanse most of the Middle East.
The place of the new Temple, will be to the North of the existing Dome of the Rock, because this is in the direct line of the now sealed Eastern gate. The Bible, the Torah, and Josephus, all agree that the Temple was in that location. The Temple Institute, in Jerusalem, has made most of the utensils for the Temple worship, including the robes and breastplate for the High Priest. The instruments such as the silver trumpets are ready and musicians are trained for their use.
The Jewish sage, Moses Maimonides, known as Rambam, declared that the Temple will be rebuilt and the exiles from around the world gathered back into the Promised Land.
The Messiah will appear and re-establish the glory of King David.
In the Talmud Yerushalmi, Rabbi Acha says; The Beit Hamikdash [Holy Temple] will be built first, before the advent of the Kingdom of David.
The Pnei Moshe states; The Land will be settled first, then the people will become prosperous, after that they will build the Temple and finally, the Messiah will come.
In the Mareh Punim the Gaon Moshe Margolis wrote that when Jacob predicted the future of Judah, he foretold that the Temple would be rebuilt first, then the Messiah would come.
The whole scenario of the end times, has a logical sequence to it. At last, now in 2013, we can see how things are happening that will see a confederation of Islamic states and entities that will be motivated to get rid of the cancer in their midst, that is the State of Israel. The moment of their attack, is the moment that God will intervene. This great Day of the Lord, will take the form of a natural event a coronal mass ejection, a massive sunstrike of cosmic particles, causing intense heat and electrical storms. The attacking armies will be destroyed by their own weaponry, as they all explode before firing. This literally fulfils the prayer in Psalm 83:13-18
Many prophesies speak of the regeneration of the Land of Greater Israel, in a very short while [Isaiah 29:17] after this great clearance and cleansing of the entire area. Righteous Israel- those who love the Lord and follow in His ways will then gather on the mountains of Samaria. This is described very well in Ezekiel 20:34-38.
Over 40 prophesies describe how all the Israelites will live in peace and security in their own Land. At last, they will be as God originally intended, a light to the nations, they will exemplify My Holiness for all to see. Ezekiel 39:27-29 [The attack by Gog/ Magog will come during this period]
They will build the Third Temple, and the splendour of this latter House will surpass that of the former. Haggai 2:9 It is them who greet the Returning Jesus with the shout 'Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord!'
There is not such a messiah person in bible prophecy - who is a different person than the man of sin.
When Jesus returns, the two figures that are cast into the lake of fire are the beast and the false prophet. The false prophet's role is not that of a messiah because he is not a king. (the) Messiah will be the King of Israel. And there is nothing in bible prophecy that he enters into a peace treaty with the beast.
And it would irrational that the Jews would embrace a reappearing (reincarnated) "Jesus" as their messiah when they are so opposed to him having been their messiah because of him saying that he was God.
Doug
On the point of the seals of Revelation 6...they lay out nicely with Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13, which are all the Olivet discourse with differing detail:
Here's how I believe they go:
The first seal, Revelation 6:1, 2:
Then I saw when the Lamb broke one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, Come.
2 I looked, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.
The first seal is the Lord Jesus who conquered sin and death on the cross, and leads His church to conquer! I correlate that to what the apostle Paul said of Christ and the church in Romans 8:37, 38
37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
The second seal, Rev 6:4, 5:
3 When He broke the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, Come.
4 And another, a red horse, went out; and to him who sat on it, it was granted to take peace from the earth, and that men would slay one another; and a great sword was given to him.
The second seal is war correlating to Matthew 24:6
6 You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.
The 2nd seal indicates the wars of the world throughout time as peace was taken from the earth. We will have war until Christ returns.
The third seal, Rev 6:5. 6:
5 When He broke the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying, Come. I looked, and behold, a black horse; and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand.
6 And I heard something like a voice in the center of the four living creatures saying, A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not damage the oil and the wine.
The third seal correlates to famines throughout time as Jesus in Matthew 24:7:
7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.
There have been numerous periods of famines throughout history also.
The fourth seal, Rev 6:7, 8:
7 When the Lamb broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, Come.
8 I looked, and behold, an ashen horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth.
The fourth seal correlates to death by pestilences, and famines as we learn Jesus stated in Luke's account, Luke 21:11
11and there will be great earthquakes, and in various places plagues and famines; and there will be terrors and great signs from heaven.
The fourth seal accounts for the earthquakes, plagues of disease, as well as unexplained things we see in heaven.
The fifth seal, Rev 6:9-11:
9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;
10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?
11And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
These are Christian martyrs of the apostles and the early church. Jesus indicated this in Luke 21:12-19:
12 But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you, delivering you to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for My names sake.
13 It will lead to an opportunity for your testimony.
14 So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves;
15 for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute.
16But you will be betrayed even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death,
17 and you will be hated by all because of My name.
18 Yet not a hair of your head will perish.
19 By your endurance you will gain your lives.
The example for us is the apostles and those of the early church...Stephen, James, Peter, Paul, and many others.
The sixth seal, Rev 6:12-17
12 I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood;
13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind.
14 The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains;
16 and they *said to the mountains and to the rocks, Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;
17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?
This correlates to Israel/Jerusalem's destruction as well as the temple. The language correlates to Luke 21:21-28:
20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.
21 Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;
22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.
23 Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people;
24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
25 There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves,
26 men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.
This was Jesus' Judgement on Israel/Jerusalem! When the apostles saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies, they would know it was time to flee Judea to the mountains. The apostles and the those Christian in Jerusalem did flee. Jerusalem was destroyed and the temple also.
The time now is "until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled"...Gentile Christians are being saved! The time of God turning to the Jews and opening them to salvation is coming...but until then only a remnant of Jews are being saved...that is Romans 11!!!
The seals have been opened!!!
That's how I see it at this time from my study...but I continue to study this, and I hope you do too!
I don't think so. When Jesus came He clearly stated worship was to be spiritual worship. He stated that correcting the "woman at the well" in John 4:23, 24:
23 But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. 24 God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
This didn't occur until Pentecost of Acts 2. Prior to that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross ENDED temple sacrifice and worship. That is why the veil of the temple is torn in half in Matthew 27:50-53. The phenomenon there is indicating the end of temple sacrifice.
Furthermore Jesus had already pronounced the temple desolate in Matthew 23:38:
38 Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
The temple in Ezekiel is never to be physically built!! Israel never returned to God. They rejected Messiah. Ezekiel was told "If Israel was ashamed that he was to show them the design of the temple (which is a heavenly temple). That is found in Ezekiel 43:10-12:
10 “As for you, son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel that they may be ashamed of their iniquities;, and let them measure the plan.
11 If they are ashamed of all that they have done, make known to them the design of the house, its structure, its exits, its entrances, all its designs, all its statutes, and all its laws. And write it in their sight, so that they may observe its whole design and all its statutes and do them.
12 This is the law of the house: its entire area on the top of the mountain all around shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house.
At the time Ezekiel prophesied this the 2nd temple wasn't even built. They were still in exile. They went on to rebuild the temple under Ezra and Nehemiah. The Jews never returned to God. They went on to crucify Christ, so how could that temple be built?
Jesus came in the time of that 2nd temple. He declared Himself as "greater than the temple" in Matthew 12:16. Jesus came to shift the focus from the temple to Himself. He declared Himself "the ROCK" upon whom the church would be built.
There is no need for a third temple, the temple is a spiritual temple made of Christ, the apostles and prophets, and all believers..
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