• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Why there is no clear mention of trinity in the old testament?

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics' started by Godistruth1, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

    +3,590
    Ecuador
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    I say that logic does not work with someone who created and controls it
     
  2. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

    +1,023
    United States
    Unitarian
    Single
    US-Others
    If YHWH can use a donkey to talk to a man, He can use trinitarians to put the Bible together. That does not make the trinity truth.
     
  3. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

    +1,023
    United States
    Unitarian
    Single
    US-Others
    You are correct in your use of "someONE" rather than two or more Creators.
     
  4. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,853
    Saudi Arabia
    Christian
    Private
    Not in the case of inspired scripture, only a fool would put his faith in books he believes were put together by heretics. So my suggestion is to reject the Bible like our Muslim friends or admit Trinitarians aren't heretics.
     
  5. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

    +1,023
    United States
    Unitarian
    Single
    US-Others
    "Put together" is not what matters. The books were not written by trinitarians, but by pure monotheists who did not believe in a trinity. Besides, the books the Catholics put together differs from the books the Protestants put together and they both differ from the books the Ethiopic Christians put together. Also, the canon of the OT was already put together long before a trinitarian existed.
     
  6. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,853
    Saudi Arabia
    Christian
    Private
    Technically the Old Testament Canon was never settled completely. And yes the writers of the New Testament did believe in a Trinitarian Godhead consisting of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as evidenced in their writings and the writings of those they taught and appointed in their stead. If your referring to the biblical canon it’s not that big of an issue among various Christian denominations and sects.
     
  7. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

    +12,438
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    "Trinity" is the attempt of fourth century Gentile Christians to understand God and scripture in the language of Greek philosophy.
     
  8. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

    +1,023
    United States
    Unitarian
    Single
    US-Others
    I agree that the New Testament writers wrote about the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They did NOT write about how they are three separate persons that comprise the one God or that they are co-equal and co-eternal. That was all added long after the NT was written.
     
  9. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

    +3,590
    Ecuador
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    The Early Church didn't rely mainly on a Bible that wasn't created yet. Ignatius, a disciple of Apostle John, believed in that:
    "We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.' Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passable body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts."
     
  10. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

    +1,023
    United States
    Unitarian
    Single
    US-Others
    As I said, "They did NOT write about how they are three separate persons that comprise the one God or that they are co-equal and co-eternal. That was all added long after the NT was written." Where do you see those beliefs in Ignatius' words? Also, you say he was a disciple of John, but others say that is based on tradition and legend.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  11. salt-n-light

    salt-n-light Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,411
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    its not personalitites, but positions
     
  12. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,853
    Saudi Arabia
    Christian
    Private
    On the contrary they did write about how each person of the Trinity is God:

    Father is God:

    Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

    John 17:3


    Son is God:

    Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

    John 20:28


    Holy Spirit is God:

    Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God."

    Acts 5:4

    And it’s a good thing they also appointed people to explain the Triune Godhead in their stead:

    Polycarp (70-155/160). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle.

    "O Lord God almighty . . . I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever" (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).

    Justin Martyr (100?-165?). He was a Christian apologist and martyr.

    "For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water" (First Apol., LXI).

    Ignatius of Antioch (died 98/117). Bishop of Antioch. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.

    "In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever" (n. 7; PG 5.988).
    "We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.' Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passable body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 1, p. 52, Ephesians 7.)

    Irenaeus (115-190). As a boy he listened to Polycarp, the disciple of John. He became Bishop of Lyons.

    "The Church, though dispersed throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: . . . one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father ‘to gather all things in one,' and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess; to him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all . . . '" (Against Heresies X.l)
     
  13. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

    +1,023
    United States
    Unitarian
    Single
    US-Others
    Hebrew uses "elohim" (God) in at least four ways: 1. To refer to God (YHWH), 2. To refer to human magistrates (rulers, governors, judges), 3. to angels, and 4 it is used in reference to false gods (elohim). In reference to YHWH, Elohim is a plural of majesty or intensity, but when used of human rulers, angels, or false gods, it is used in a numerical plural. Context is the major decider as to which usage is in meaning is used in any given verse of Scripture. For example, if the one true God is calling others "elohim" as in Psalm 82, then that tells us the "elohim" being referred to cannot be the one true God. Another example; Psalm 45:6 - Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom [is] a right sceptre. "God" is the Hebrew "elohim". However, since YHWH (Yeshua's God - Psalm 45:7) is speaking to Yeshua in verse 6, then Yeshua cannot be the one true God. He is an elohim, but not the one true Elohim, Yahweh (Yeshua's Father).

    Yes, the Son excludes himself as the "only true God". That glory goes to Father YHWH alone.

    Thomas did not speak English. Therefore, he did not use the word "God". He probably used "elohim", but in the sense of applying to a man as in Psalm 82 and not in the sense of thinking Yeshua was the only true Elohim. Thomas was taught that Yeshua was the Son of Elohim, not Elohim himself.

    The Holy Spirit is the mind, power and influence of God. God (YHWH) is a Spirit. He can take a portion of His Spirit (Himself) and put it in a man. He put His Spirit in Peter (1 Corinthians 3:16; 2 Corinthians 6:16). Therefore, to lie to Peter and to the Spirit within Peter is to lie to YHWH (God).

    As I said, "They did NOT write about how they are three separate persons that comprise the one God or that they are co-equal and co-eternal." None of the quotes above say such a thing. They do mention the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but even I believe they exist. And again, they did not speak English. Therefore, they did not say "God". In reference to Yeshua as "God", they probably used "theos", but that word is similar to "elohim" in that it can apply to men.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  14. Godistruth1

    Godistruth1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +145
    India
    Muslim
    Single
    No Muslims believe Mary is part of trinity. And you do believe God is trinity right?
     
  15. Godistruth1

    Godistruth1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +145
    India
    Muslim
    Single
    Can you explain "One Diety" clearly. Does that One dirty has a consciousness of its own. And if it does that makes 4th one in the Trinity.
     
  16. Godistruth1

    Godistruth1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +145
    India
    Muslim
    Single
    There is no one being. Also you agree there are three deities. That is three distinct gods?
     
  17. Godistruth1

    Godistruth1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +145
    India
    Muslim
    Single
    So you believe in trinity because your NT writers believed it?
     
  18. SinoBen

    SinoBen Active Member

    249
    +100
    Australia
    Christian
    Married
    I wonder why your point is not being addressed here? I think it is lost on them.
     
  19. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

    +3,590
    Ecuador
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    They spoke Aramaic and the Gospel was written in Greek, Hebrew was very irrelevant in the New Testament.
     
  20. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

    +3,590
    Ecuador
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    Is that what your Imams teach you? Maybe they should learn more about Christianity too
     
Loading...