• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Why there is no clear mention of trinity in the old testament?

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics' started by Godistruth1, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. Godistruth1

    Godistruth1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +145
    India
    Muslim
    Single
    Old testament clearly states God is One and there is no mention of God being 3 personalities? Is it possible God was made into 3 personalities from just One personality ?
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Catechumen

    +3,214
    Ecuador
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    There is no mention of God being "one personality", it says there is one God, and we believe the same.
     
  3. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

    +4,067
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    The old testament states that God was present in the ancient temple. But that God was never present in the ancient temple. The Spirit of God was present in the temple.

    This article may be helpful:

    SHEKINAH - JewishEncyclopedia.com
     
  4. Monk Brendan

    Monk Brendan Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,717
    United States
    Melkite Catholic
    Private
    US-Others
    The proper expression is One God in three Persons, not personalities, which smacks of Sabellianism.

    Try the verse from the Psalms: "By the Word of YHVH all the heavens were made, and all their host by the Spirit of His Mouth."

    And do you remember the three angels who came to Abraham and Sarah? He bows down to them, but addressed them in the singular.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  5. SinoBen

    SinoBen Active Member

    249
    +100
    Australia
    Christian
    Married
    Can I ask you a question? Is it possible to say "one couple" or "one tribe"?
     
  6. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +5,276
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    There is no mention of the Ten Commandments either. It's just a teaching tool.
     
  7. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

    +15,142
    United States
    Messianic
    Married
    US-Others
    Deut 6:4
    Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one!

    Or more properly:

    Sh'ma Yisrael, Adonai Elohenu Adonai echad.

    This is the classical statement that says "God is one." But it also mentions God 3 times, hinting at the trinity:

    Sh'ma Yisrael, [1] Adonai [2] Elohenu [3] Adonai echad.

    Adonai
    Literally "my Lord," commonly used for the 4 letter personal name of God: Yud Hay Vav Hay. It is used twice in this verse.

    Elohenu Literally "our God."
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
    • List
  8. Sanoy

    Sanoy Well-Known Member

    +1,100
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    There are clear statements, it's just masked in translation and how quickly and uncritically we read the bible. Christians are not the first to discover this either because we can see second temple Jewish speculation trying to tackle the identity of this 2nd power that shows up in scripture.

    Genesis 19:24 "Then Yahweh rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from Yahweh out of heaven.

    Zechariah 3:2 "And Yahweh said to Satan, “Yahweh rebuke you, O Satan! Yahweh who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is not this a brand plucked from the fire?”

    (ESV, reverted The LORD to Yahweh for clarification. Note this is just a hand picked few out of a very large bunch)
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  9. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid Life is lived in the shape of a "?" Supporter

    +4,858
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    God is One; but you might ask yourself, does the Sun in the sky put forth only one wavelength of light?
     
  10. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid Life is lived in the shape of a "?" Supporter

    +4,858
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    .
     
  11. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

    +15,739
    United States
    Lutheran
    In Relationship
    US-Others
    The Old Testament doesn't say a lot of things.

    The Christian use and understanding of the Bible isn't the same as the Muslim use and understanding of the Qu'ran.

    The Bible isn't God's Revelation in the Christian religion. It is a collection of sacred texts through which we encounter God's Revelation. God's Revelation is Jesus Himself.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  12. Moral Orel

    Moral Orel Proud Citizen of Moralton Supporter

    +1,763
    United States
    Agnostic
    Married
    Yes it does. Exodus 34:28
     
  13. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

    +2,957
    United States
    Seeker
    Single
    That may be true. But it doesnt make sense.
     
  14. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

    +15,739
    United States
    Lutheran
    In Relationship
    US-Others
    Technically in the Hebrew of the text these are called "the ten words", Aseret HaDabaryim; being the ten words written on the two tablets of stone.

    The Septuagint likewise calls them τοὺς δέκα λόγους (tous deka logous, "the ten words"), and the Vulgate verba foederis decem (which I think would translate "ten words of covenant").

    The importance of these ten in particular is largely a matter of extra-biblical tradition, in Judaism all 613 mitzvot (of which these ten are part of) are of equal value; but extra-biblical tradition has understood these as having a particular importance. In Christian usage the "Ten Words" or "Ten Sayings" are often comprehended as providing a kind of summation of moral or ethical teaching. Hence Christian catechetical materials have often included elaborations on them, and the importance of remembering them. The Bible itself never presents them as something particularly unique apart from the rest of the Torah, and notably when rabbinical authorities discussed the idea of what is "the greatest commandment" they usually don't go to the ten, but to one of the other commandments. It is this rabbinical context that Jesus Himself is asked, "Rabbi, what is the greatest commandment?" Jesus doesn't point to any of the ten, but instead points to "You shall love the Lord your God..." and "You shall love your neighbor as your self" (Mark's account includes also the Shema, "Hear O Israel, the LORD your God, the LORD is one.").

    Neither Jewish tradition nor Christian tradition presents any of the Ten as "the greatest". In rabbinical literature and tradition we find the famous case of a Gentile attempting to discredit Judaism by going around asking various rabbinical experts on the most important part of the Torah, various rabbinical authorities are mentioned, but then the Gentile approaches the great Hillel the Elder who answers, "What is hateful to you do not do unto others, this is the whole of the Torah, the rest is commentary", a sentiment that Jesus Himself echoes in its inverse, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, this is the Law and the Prophets." (Jesus is, fundamentally, repeating a well known Jewish perspective a la the great sage Hillel).

    I say all this really to just make the statement that, when we boil it all down, the Bible doesn't really talk about "The Ten Commandments", this concept is not itself present in the biblical texts, but exists outside of the biblical texts in the traditions of Judaism and Christianity (in different ways). Indeed, while we are told there are ten words or sayings on the tablets, they are additionally left un-numbered; that the list of mitzvot presented in Exodus 20 are those ten sayings is agreed, but the enumeration of them is likewise a matter of tradition: Jews number them one way, and Christians have various ways of numbering them:

    1) The Eastern Churches have one way of numbering them.
    2) St. Augustine presented a numbering schema that was used in the Western Church until the Reformation, and remains the numbering used by Catholics and Lutherans (and, I believe, at least some Anglicans?)
    3) John Calvin's numbering schema is the one used by virtually all Protestants except Lutherans.

    As such there are [at least] four different numbering schemas; all independent of the biblical text itself.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  15. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

    +5,559
    Non-Denom
    Single
    The bible also makes no mention of the "Christ's dozen" in reference to the 12 disciples of the time. The Trinity is just a label.
     
  16. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +5,276
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    That's very interesting. It looks like a mistranslation.
     
  17. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

    +5,276
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Others
    If you were to retranslate the the original content, you wouldn't get "The Ten Commandments!" in meaning. It would be more like "the ten things written there."

    ‘ă-śe-reṯ
    had-də-ḇā-rîm;

    which is more like I said. The ten things found in writing on that stone thing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  18. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,091
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    That is true but only after the mention of written commandments, not just words but actual commandments:

    Exo 24:12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

    H4687
    מצוה
    mitsvâh
    mits-vaw'
    From H6680; a command, whether human or divine (collectively the Law): - (which was) commanded (-ment), law, ordinance, precept.
     
  19. Godistruth1

    Godistruth1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +145
    India
    Muslim
    Single
    Yes it's just one God not trinity. One God means One God and not trinity. Holy ghost or Jesus isn't mentioned as part of God in OT
     
  20. Godistruth1

    Godistruth1 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +145
    India
    Muslim
    Single
    First commandment is clear that God is One and not God is trinity
     
Loading...