Why the poor aren't getting ahead.

[OldWiseGuy]

Interestingly, the rich can be all these things, and yet get ahead.

Sure. Spoiled rich kids, or criminals.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I like it how there are so many threads of you showing how concerned you are with poverty, and how to solve this issue.

The thing is: Some getting really rich or accumulating even more wealth, it takes many people to be relatively poor. That's the capitalist principle. Even if some of the poor are succeeding in getting rich, this again depends on others being kept relatively poor.

It all starts there.

You may or may not like capitalism, but there´s no point in wondering why - in its unrestricted form - it leads to the very results that are required for its principles to work.

By 'getting ahead' I don't really mean getting rich, just attaining a comfortable living.

I really haven't offered much advice about how to succeed. I meet lots of resistance when I broach that subject. I'm like Jesus. I think people should be saved from their sins, not in their sins. If you are going to help clean someone up they must first get out of the mud puddle.

 

[quatona]

By 'getting ahead' I don't really mean getting rich, just attaining a comfortable living.

Yeah, getting a better position in the competition for the crumbs that fall from the richs´ tables.

I really haven't offered much advice about how to succeed. I meet lots of resistance when I broach that subject.

That´s probably because you ignore the parts where this is a structural problem.

I'm like Jesus.

Sure.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That´s probably because you ignore the parts where this is a structural problem.

But it's the 'structure' that provides opportunity.

 

[quatona]

But it's the 'structure' that provides opportunity.

No, the same opportunities would be there without the structure. The structural necessities of unrestricted capitalism provide the obstacles.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No, the same opportunities would be there without the structure. The structural necessities of unrestricted capitalism provide the obstacles.

I see capitalism as the most important part of the structure, and vital to getting ahead.

 

[quatona]

I see capitalism as the most important part of the structure, and vital to getting ahead.

I know you see it that way.

 

[Non sequitur]

By 'getting ahead' I don't really mean getting rich, just attaining a comfortable living.

I really haven't offered much advice about how to succeed. I meet lots of resistance when I broach that subject. I'm like Jesus. I think people should be saved from their sins, not in their sins. If you are going to help clean someone up they must first get out of the mud puddle.

I think it would come across less holier-than-thou if you used the phrase, "I believe as Jesus" instead of "I'm like Jesus."

If we all appear to agree with the contents of your list, why do you believe there is no much commentary on your list?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I know you see it that way.

Individuals are more flexible than the system and so should get in line with it in order to succeed.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

If we all appear to agree with the contents of your list, why do you believe there is not much commentary on your list?

Using the list as an excuse really isn't agreeing, i.e.,

Poor person: "I'm unwilling to work hard."

The rest of us: "Ok then, I guess you're excused."

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Well meaning people, such as myself and others on this forum, want the poor to get ahead. It is the government that has made it difficult for them, mainly through faulty education. But the government has the resources and the authority and we do not. My advice has no chance against the government power structure.

It is fun to delve into the problem however.

 

[Non sequitur]

Using the list as an excuse really isn't agreeing, i.e.,

Poor person: "I'm unwilling to work hard."

The rest of us: "Ok then, I guess you're excused."

I was not aware of anyone saying that those are not valid reasons for why one is poor.

Just those trying to point out how it's not as black-and-white as that.

It would be like me posting on how the rich are getting ahead, but leaving out things like trust funds. IT's nto really ad

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I was not aware of anyone saying that those are not valid reasons for why one is poor.

Just those trying to point out how it's not as black-and-white as that.

It would be like me posting on how the rich are getting ahead, but leaving out things like trust funds. IT's nto really ad

Do you have a problem with inherited wealth?

"A trust fund is a fund comprised of a variety of assets intended to provide benefits to an individual or organization. The trust fund is established by a grantor to provide financial security to an individual, most often a child or grandchild-or organizations, such as a charity or other non-profit organization."
Trust Fund Definition | Investopedia

What does this mean? "IT's nto really ad".

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I was not aware of anyone saying that those are not valid reasons for why one is poor.

I'm saying these are not valid reasons. Most others here give the poor a pass because of them, which of course helps to ensure that they remain poor.

 

[quatona]

I don´t understand why people starve. They could just eat some more, couldn´t they?

 

[Non sequitur]

Do you have a problem with inherited wealth?

What does this mean? "IT's nto really ad".

That was the site glitching.

No, I don't. And that's my point. Your list contains only their choices, but no non-choices reasons.

If one wanted to address why a business continues to fail, it would behoove them to look at things like, "Does the market want what we offer?" and "Is there regulation that prevents us from succeeding?" other than being fixated on the obvious black-and-white choices they made.

The latter being more obvious and correctable and the former being more of an overall problem, that maybe can't be changed.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No, I don't. And that's my point. Your list contains only their choices, but no non-choices reasons.

I already accounted for that in other posts.

If one wanted to address why a business continues to fail, it would behoove them to look at things like, "Does the market want what we offer?" and "Is there regulation that prevents us from succeeding?" other than being fixated on the obvious black-and-white choices they made.

The latter being more obvious and correctable and the former being more of an overall problem, that maybe can't be changed.

I don't see the connection to the topic.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I don´t understand why people starve. They could just eat some more, couldn´t they?

Who's starving?

 

[Non sequitur]

I don't see the connection to the topic.

Maybe you an Old Crotchety White Man (TM) or maybe you honestly don't see any problem.

And that's the issue people are having. You're not seeing what people are trying to say, in addressing your list.

I can't do any more to point out how only addressing the logically apparent things is of little help/use to the overall issue, any more than I already have.