Why the poor aren't getting ahead.

[OldWiseGuy]

Evasion training in the jungle.

Spikes through skin and muscle? That's pretty harsh training.

 

[Earatha]

my husband got a few spikes in him. They didn't catch him.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

my husband got a few spikes in him. They didn't catch him.

How many go through such training?

 

[Earatha]

Oh I dunno. His entire unit did it.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Oh I dunno. His entire unit did it.

Was his a combat unit? I can't see artillery surveyors (my MOS) getting such training.

 

[Earatha]

Navy special warfare.

In fairness my Air Force friend said his training was a bit more lax. But his experience against insurgents was not exactly relaxing.

 

[Non sequitur]

I put in that Herculean effort and it paid off. People have more energy than they realize.

I'm curious.

The list you named involved their choices. Can you make a list below of reasons they can't get ahead that are not their choice?

 

[timewerx]

I have received that reward in my lifetime, therefore I believe it can pertain to both the here and the hereafter.

I was thinking of the Christians suffering the worst of persecution in different parts of the world, even murdered for their beliefs.

I don't think Christ would teach us something with inconsistent results. If the result is inconsistent in our lifetime, then it doesn't apply in our lifetime.

It's one of the reason I left my denomination. They have many interpretations with inconsistent results.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I was thinking of the Christians suffering the worst of persecution in different parts of the world, even murdered for their beliefs.

I don't think Christ would teach us something with inconsistent results. If the result is inconsistent in our lifetime, then it doesn't apply in our lifetime.

It's one of the reason I left my denomination. They have many interpretations with inconsistent results.

If the process is consistent the results will likely be consistent as well.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'm curious.

The list you named involved their choices. Can you make a list below of reasons they can't get ahead that are not their choice?

Sure. Mental or physical inability to do so. Those are the only limitations I can think of.

 

[timewerx]

If the process is consistent the results will likely be consistent as well.

What about the Christians suffering from severe persecution, even murdered for their faith in other parts of the world? What about the things Christ and many of His disciples and saints suffered and died for in this world in great difficulty?

I don't think Matthew 23:11-12 applies in our lifetime because we also have this verse:

Luke 6:20-26
Looking at his disciples, he said:

“Blessed are you who are poor,
for yours is the kingdom of God.
21
Blessed are you who hunger now,
for you will be satisfied.
Blessed are you who weep now,
for you will laugh.
22
Blessed are you when people hate you,
when they exclude you and insult you
and reject your name as evil,
because of the Son of Man.

23 “Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their ancestors treated the prophets.

24
“But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.
25
Woe to you who are well fed now,
for you will go hungry.
Woe to you who laugh now,
for you will mourn and weep.
26
Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you,
for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.

 

[timewerx]

Sure. Mental or physical inability to do so. Those are the only limitations I can think of.

Many poor people are. Usually the result of growing up in poverty, raised by parents who are poorly educated.

Like mothers under substance abuse while pregnant with their babies, malnutrition due to poverty and lack of education, and lack of positive mental stimulation in their childhood...Sure ingredients for mental and psychological problems later in life.

We are not looking at just few cases but many, if not the majority of cases.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What about the Christians suffering from severe persecution, even murdered for their faith in other parts of the world? What about the things Christ and many of His disciples and saints suffered and died for in this world in great difficulty?

I don't think Matthew 23:11-12 applies in our lifetime because we also have this verse:

Luke 6:20-26
Looking at his disciples, he said:

“Blessed are you who are poor,
for yours is the kingdom of God.
21
Blessed are you who hunger now,
for you will be satisfied.
Blessed are you who weep now,
for you will laugh.
22
Blessed are you when people hate you,
when they exclude you and insult you
and reject your name as evil,
because of the Son of Man.

23 “Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their ancestors treated the prophets.

24
“But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.
25
Woe to you who are well fed now,
for you will go hungry.
Woe to you who laugh now,
for you will mourn and weep.
26
Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you,
for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.

Well, we just differ in our understanding of it then.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Many poor people are. Usually the result of growing up in poverty, raised by parents who are poorly educated.

Like mothers under substance abuse while pregnant with their babies, malnutrition due to poverty and lack of education, and lack of positive mental stimulation in their childhood...Sure ingredients for mental and psychological problems later in life.

We are not looking at just few cases but many, if not the majority of cases.

We have the best and brightest working on that problem.

 

[Non sequitur]

Sure. Mental or physical inability to do so. Those are the only limitations I can think of.

Opportunity, availability, biases, fake news or favoritism didn't make your list?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Opportunity, availability, biases, fake news or favoritism didn't make your list?

Those are excuses maybe, but not insurmountable obstacles.

 

[Non sequitur]

Those are excuses maybe, but not insurmountable obstacles.

That would depend on how severe those reasons are and how constantly and consistently they occur. Which you literally can't possibly know.

Until you've thoroughly investigated every poor person that exists, it's just conjecture.

 

[quatona]

Too many are,

Undereducated
Under motivated
Unwilling to plan
Unwilling to sacrifice
Unwilling to work hard
Unwilling to obey the law
Unwilling to care for their health
Unwilling to abstain from drugs and alcohol
Unwilling to remain unmarried until they can afford it.
Unwilling to present themselves to an employer properly.

Interestingly, the rich can be all these things, and yet get ahead.

 

[quatona]

T
Why the poor aren't getting ahead.

I like it how there are so many threads of you showing how concerned you are with poverty, and how to solve this issue.

The thing is: Some getting really rich or accumulating even more wealth, it takes many people to be relatively poor. That's the capitalist principle. Even if some of the poor are succeeding in getting rich, this again depends on others being kept relatively poor.

It all starts there.

You may or may not like capitalism, but there´s no point in wondering why - in its unrestricted form - it leads to the very results that are required for its principles to work.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That would depend on how severe those reasons are and how constantly and consistently they occur. Which you literally can't possibly know.

Until you've thoroughly investigated every poor person that exists, it's just conjecture.

If those reasons are 'severe' enough they are just destined to be poor. I have no problem with that.

Poor people who seek aid from the government are investigated through application forms and interviews. Aid is granted, or refused, based on that information. I have no problem with that either.