WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SATURDAY

[SeventhFisherofMen]

Sure, conversation should not end when:
- some argument you are not prepared for is brought up
- if somebody question your interpretation of the verse
- if somebody question the context you give to the verse
- if the verse is meant for us

If it regularly ends in such situations, its not a good sign. People should be able to think for themselves, without needing instructions from their church to everything.

exactly. Jesus wants us to think for ourselves. I acknowledge there may be things I believe that are wrong, but when I believe something based on scripture it's ok if I have an actual reason. My issue with regard to Sabbath days and The Lords day is I have yet to be give a genuine reason as to why, according to New Testament, worshipping on Sunday is wrong.

People on here are acting like I'm offending Jesus or even sinning by honoring Sunday, and when I give new testament scripture I get completely ignored and then given an overwhelming number of verses from the old testament about Sabbath. These same people who acknowledge that sacrificial law is done away with under the new covenant cover their ears and eyes when you even SUGGEST the same could be done for Sabbath day and a day of worship.

The difference is when I see they are following based on their scripture, I know God is loving and understands where they are coming from, and they will stand in the resurrection, and I even show the verse that shows both should be convinced. But when I say why I follow Sunday OOOOHHHHH NO I'M SOOOO WRONG AND HERE'S WHY!

It gets old is all. Thanks for talking to me about this.

 

[trophy33]

exactly. Jesus wants us to think for ourselves. I acknowledge there may be things I believe that are wrong, but when I believe something based on scripture it's ok if I have an actual reason. My issue with regard to Sabbath days and The Lords day is I have yet to be give a genuine reason as to why, according to New Testament, worshipping on Sunday is wrong.

People on here are acting like I'm offending Jesus or even sinning by honoring Sunday, and when I give new testament scripture I get completely ignored and then given an overwhelming number of verses from the old testament about Sabbath. These same people who acknowledge that sacrificial law is done away with under the new covenant cover their ears and eyes when you even SUGGEST the same could be done for Sabbath day and a day of worship.

The difference is when I see they are following based on their scripture, I know God is loving and understands where they are coming from, and they will stand in the resurrection, and I even show the verse that shows both should be convinced. But when I say why I follow Sunday OOOOHHHHH NO I'M SOOOO WRONG AND HERE'S WHY!

It gets old is all. Thanks for talking to me about this.

I am sorry, I did not notice you already replied, so I still edited my post a bit for a better English and I added some points. But the meaning remains the same.

I am from the camp of "all days are equal", keeping no specific day, neither Sabbath, nor Sunday. But you certainly do not offend God if you keep Sunday for worshiping Him. As far as you do it willfully and in freedom and do not impose it as a rule to others, its between you and God and everything is fine. Whatever helps and fits you.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

I am sorry, I did not notice you already replied, so I still edited my post a bit for a better English and I added some points. But the meaning remains the same.

I am from the camp of "all days are equal", keeping no specific day, neither Sabbath, nor Sunday. But you certainly do not offend God if you keep Sunday for worshiping Him. As far as you do it willfully and in freedom and do not impose it as a rule to others, its between you and God and everything is fine. Whatever helps and fits you.

I believe we should have a day of rest, I personally think if you believe Saturday or Sunday God understands, but I also believe we should honor God on all days much the same.

The one distinction I follow that I do believe is important in reference to treating Sunday as a day of rest is: #1 I don't work, and #2 I don't buy things and cause others to work.

It is between me and God true and honestly everyone's faith is between them and God, but I am prepared to give an answer for why I do what I do for Jesus.

I don't say this to make anyone feel guilty or wrong if they don't do what I do, rather I fear Jesus saying I am ashamed of the Gospel when people give me an opportunity to share why I believe what I believe and I don't answer accordingly.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

No Romans 14 refers to days, eating but also Spiritual things as well. It is an example of all things spiritual, you are comparing the eating of only vegetables and then eating both meat and vegetables to abstaining from certain things. Paul later mentions this in terms of being free to do what we do without stumbling someone, i can bring up the specific verse but i am getting a bit tired of explaining how Romans 14 is not just talking about eating food because NOWHERE WAS IT WRONG TO EAT MEAT OR JUST HAVE TO EAT VEGETABLES, ITS A PARABLE AND REFERENCE TO MORE SPIRITUAL THINGS.

Jews had fasting days as did early Christians (as they do now also). Within the context of that passage, yes, it was about fasting or not fasting...

 

[trophy33]

I believe we should have a day of rest, I personally think if you believe Saturday or Sunday God understands, but I also believe we should honor God on all days much the same.

The one distinction I follow that I do believe is important in reference to treating Sunday as a day of rest is: #1 I don't work, and #2 I don't buy things and cause others to work.

It is between me and God true and honestly everyone's faith is between them and God, but I am prepared to give an answer for why I do what I do for Jesus.

I don't say this to make anyone feel guilty or wrong if they don't do what I do, rather I fear Jesus saying I am ashamed of the Gospel when people give me an opportunity to share why I believe what I believe and I don't answer accordingly.

I am afraid that if you consume electricity, you cause somebody to work, anyway.

In our society, its practically impossible for work to totally stop for a day. Police, firefighters or healthcare aside, there must also be drivers for public transport, heating of homes, shops open for some emergency goods and services, gas stations open for those on the road etc.

But I agree that its important to have enough of rest, from both physical and mental activity. However, I do not think that God is somehow specifically honored by our inactivity.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

My issue with regard to Sabbath days and The Lords day is I have yet to be give a genuine reason as to why, according to New Testament, worshipping on Sunday is wrong.

It's not wrong but Sunday is not the Sabbath day, it is Sunday. Early Christians kept both.

 

[trophy33]

It's not wrong but Sunday is not the Sabbath day, it is Sunday. Early Christians kept both.

The vast majority of early Christians kept only Sunday.

Some minority of early Christians from Jews kept both, as they continued also with attending Jewish festivals or observing temple rituals. They also continued to visit synagogues, before they were expelled.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Brother, Jesus, through Paul, has corrected the oldest human tradition in Judaism since Joshua in the book of Hebrews under the new covenant. Those with Joshua who "first heard" the "good news" of how to enter the Sabbath and were not allowed to enter by oath for 40 years in the desert near the Promised Land, did not enter the "day" of rest during those 40 years, which Joshua later entered at an earlier time than the Seventh day in the Promised Land, but Joshua wrongly assumed this earlier time was the seventh day. In the following passage, another "day" refers to a different day than the one thought for the Sabbath since Joshua: not the seventh day of the week everywhere, but the seventh day of the first week of creation remembered in that time zone that falls in the Promised Land before the seventh day of the week. Judaism is wrong to think, since Joshua, that a day of the week is from evening to evening, as the sabbath falls in the Promised Land, when a day of the week is from morning to morning, as shown with Manna in the desert not allowing them to enter the Sabbath by keeping the seventh day for 40 years in the desert near the Promised Land.

So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:6-11 NLT)​

Every translation has mistakenly assumed that God's "expression": "the first of the Sabbaths" refers to Sunday when referring to Saturday, another way of referring to the seventh day of the creation week we call Saturday. This expression by God for Saturday is necessary because the Sabbath falls between two days of the week in the Promised Land as shown in the passage below. The Sabbath in the Promised Land falls and takes halves between Friday and Saturday, so you only get half of a Friday and half of a Saturday in the Promised Land, with a Sabbath taking halves between those two days, giving us the following order: Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Sabbath, and Saturday, the Sabbath being an eighth division in the seven-day week.

The "evening" ending the Sabbath in the Promised Land is part of Saturday, as shown in the above passage and the one below where God uses an "expression" that was not previously understood: "the first of the Sabbaths". This "expression" refers to the first Sabbath of creation week or another way of saying the seventh day of the week that we call Saturday. I will use Saturday for the seventh day as different from the Sabbath, which is separate from the seventh day in the Promised Land, to correct the translation of this "expression" of God. Below, "as it dawns beyond Saturday" refers to the end of the second half of Saturday, the night half from evening to morning, where Jesus rose on a Saturday night after the Sabbath in the Promised Land and before the morning begins Sunday, as the days of creation are corrected from human tradition since Joshua in Hebrews 3 and 4. This means, Jesus rose on a Saturday night, after the Sabbath ended in the "evening", as that same "evening" began what God called "night" until Sunday began in the "morning". We speak from the point of view of what begins in the "morning", when the Bible speaks from the point of view of what ends in the "morning".

long after the Sabbath (evening), as it dawns beyond Saturday (morning), came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, to see the tomb. (Mathew 28:1, my own translation)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

FYI for those reading , this is not an SDA or scripture teaching but unique to this poster.

 

[HIM]

I am sorry, I did not notice you already replied, so I still edited my post a bit for a better English and I added some points. But the meaning remains the same.

I am from the camp of "all days are equal", keeping no specific day, neither Sabbath, nor Sunday. But you certainly do not offend God if you keep Sunday for worshiping Him. As far as you do it willfully and in freedom and do not impose it as a rule to others, its between you and God and everything is fine. Whatever helps and fits you.

I believe we should have a day of rest, I personally think if you believe Saturday or Sunday God understands, but I also believe we should honor God on all days much the same.

The one distinction I follow that I do believe is important in reference to treating Sunday as a day of rest is: #1 I don't work, and #2 I don't buy things and cause others to work.

It is between me and God true and honestly everyone's faith is between them and God, but I am prepared to give an answer for why I do what I do for Jesus.

I don't say this to make anyone feel guilty or wrong if they don't do what I do, rather I fear Jesus saying I am ashamed of the Gospel when people give me an opportunity to share why I believe what I believe and I don't answer accordingly.

It is not fine to do whatever suits oneself. If it feels good do it ideology has never been of God and has done nothing but drive a wedge between us and Him. There is nothing in the Holy Writ that says this mindset is ever been okay, regarding the Sabbath or anything in our lives. There is only one standard for us to live by and that is through God and His power, through Christ as shown in Holy Writ.

 

[Leaf473]

If you re-read what I said, I never said you were attacking the Sabbath. Those who argue against the Sabbath, never use scripture in regards to worship on the first day as it was never a day blessed or sanctified by God, nor is it a commandment of God. Instead of defending the first day through scripture, they instead try to find arguments against the Sabbath.


Actually I did address this. The covenant is what was obsolete, the definition of covenant is an agreement, not a set of laws. The New Covenant is based on better promises, Hebrews 8:6 not better laws, because the law of God is perfect and needs no changing Psalms 19:7 Instead of God deleting His laws in the New Covenant He writes them in the hearts and minds of His people. Hebrews 8:10, Jer 34:33. The old covenant was based on the people doing Exodus 19:5-8 in the New Covenant same laws, but it is what God does- He write His law in the hearts and minds of His people all we need to do in not change our mind in what God wrote for us.

Yes, Jesus rose from the dead on the first day, but where is the scripture that says after Jesus rose from the dead that Sabbath is no longer the commandment of God and Sunday is the New day or worship? To make this a valid point we would need scripture stating from God that He changed one of His commandments. There is no such scripture. God clearly stated to not add or subtract from His commandments Deut 4:2

The apostles gathered everyday Acts 2:46 but that doesn’t make everyday the Sabbath or change the Sabbath commandment according to God’s Word. The apostles kept holy every Sabbath with prayer, Acts 16:13 preaching God’s Word Acts 18:4 Acts 13:44, Acts 13:42 and teaching scripture Acts 15:21 long after the cross. If someone did away with one of God’s commandments it was not expressed in scripture. Jesus excepted His people to keeping it after the cross Matthew 24:20 the saints keep the commandments of God Revelation 14:12 and Sabbath worship will be kept for eternity thus saith the Lord Isaiah 66:23

Please provide the scripture for this. People claim this through their words, not God’s Word

While I understand our opinions are important to us, when it comes to following God, I do not seem them as equal ground. Where is the scripture that says Sunday is the new day of rest? You keep making this claim but don’t provide scripture for this claim. Sunday worship did not come from scripture, it was a tradition outside of God’s Word and Jesus tells us quoting right from the Ten Commandments to not worship in vain by keeping traditions over the commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9. We are being called out of Babylon, our false teachings as we need to worship God in Truth and Sprit John 4:23-24 all of God’s commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151 and the Sabbath is one of God’s commandments that God said to remember and keep Holy Exodus 20:8. Man says forget, God says remember- I trust God.

Again, your words and not God’s Words and we ought to obey God over man.

Hi SB, I thought you had said in the past that the Lord's Day in Revelation was the seventh day Sabbath? And thus it was a literal 24-hour day?

Did I misunderstand back then?

John 20:19
When therefore it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were locked where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the middle, and said to them, “Peace be to you.”

 

[prodromos]

The vast majority of early Christians kept only Sunday.

Some minority of early Christians from Jews kept both, as they continued also with attending Jewish festivals or observing temple rituals. They also continued to visit synagogues, before they were expelled.

The Eastern Orthodox and the Oriental Orthodox continue to honor the Sabbath to this day, so I believe you are mistaken in your above claims

 

[HIM]

No Romans 14 refers to days, eating but also Spiritual things as well. It is an example of all things spiritual, you are comparing the eating of only vegetables and then eating both meat and vegetables to abstaining from certain things. Paul later mentions this in terms of being free to do what we do without stumbling someone, i can bring up the specific verse but i am getting a bit tired of explaining how Romans 14 is not just talking about eating food because NOWHERE WAS IT WRONG TO EAT MEAT OR JUST HAVE TO EAT VEGETABLES, ITS A PARABLE AND REFERENCE TO MORE SPIRITUAL THINGS.

That is right nowhere is it forbidden to eat meat and commanded to eat just vegetables. Which proves that chapter 14 is not about God's will as expressed through His word but men disputing over their thoughts, differing opinions. Things that do not have a thus saith the Lord and are arguable as verse 1 states. The 7th Day Sabbath is not one of these.


Rom 14:1 (NET) Now receive the one who is weak in the faith, and do not have disputes over differing opinions.
Rom 14:1 (YLT) And receive the one who is weak in the faith, not to judgments of your thoughts.
Rom 14:1 (ISV) Accept anyone who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of arguing over differences of opinion.
Rom 14:1 (WPNT) Receive someone who is weak in the faith, but not for disputes over arguables.

 

[trophy33]

It is not fine to do whatever suits oneself.
If it feels good do it ideology has never been of God and has done nothing but drive a wedge between us and Him. There is nothing in the Holy Writ that says this mindset is ever been okay, regarding the Sabbath or anything in our lives. There is only one standard for us to live by and that is through God and His power, through Christ as shown in Holy Writ.

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery."
Gal 5:1

 

[Leaf473]

Do not look down on your brothers and sisters in Christ for how they follow Jesus.

That to me is the real issue (not saying that anyone here is or isn't doing that).

Divisiveness doesn't have to be overt to be harmful. I grew up Pentecostal. While we acknowledged that there were Christians in other groups, we had the full Gospel, we were special. If other people would just set aside their pride and open themselves up to God and his word, they would believe like we did.

When I got older, I came to see that kind of attitude as a work of the flesh.

Galatians 5:20
...rivalries, divisions, sects...

 

[HIM]

Sure, conversation should not end when:
- some argument or question we are not prepared for is brought up
- somebody questions our interpretation of a verse
- somebody questions the context we give to a verse
- somebody questions if the verse is meant for us
- somebody questions the text itself (translation, manuscript family, being original etc)

If it regularly ends in such situations, its not a good sign. Its what happens with JW, Mormons, SDA and similar groups. People should be able to think for themselves, without needing instructions from their community to everything.

I am not of any of those groups you mentioned. However one is saying more than they ought insinuating they do not think for themselves. Almost all Christian denominations have a core set of beliefs that one is to adhere to and promote. I've study with all these you mentioned and all three promote thinking for yourself, but as almost any other denomination they teach that you should not steer from what they teach.

 

[trophy33]

The Eastern Orthodox and the Oriental Orthodox continue to honor the Sabbath to this day

I cannot find any relevant sources about EOC or OOC keeping or honoring Sabbath. Anyway, the context was the early church.

 

[prodromos]

Brother, that does not compute for 3 nights. The prophecy of Jonah is not just 3 days, but more specifically: 3 days and 3 nights in the following passage.

A day and a night is the "whole" of the synecdoche. 3 days and 3 nights gives 3 "whole" periods of which Friday evening, all of Saturday, and Sunday morning are the parts referenced. Synecdoche is a very common figure of speech which is found frequently used in the Scriptures.

 

[HIM]

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery."
Gal 5:1

You misquote that text. DO thy own will is from Aleister Crawley and his ilk not Galatians.

 

[trophy33]

You misquote that text.

No, its copy&paste directly from the Bible:

Galatians 5:1 - Freedom in Christ

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery.

biblehub.com

 

[prodromos]

We were talking about early Christians.

EO and OO have unbroken continuity with the early Christians. We weren't Sunday only worshippers who one day decided we would start honoring the Sabbath again. It has always been part of our respective traditions.