WHY THE LAW IS A PART OF THE GOSPEL

[TexFire316]

Good post Tex, welcome and thanks for sharing your view. Happy Sabbath!

Thank you for the soft pat on the shoulder, though it wasn't needed.
I don't share my views, that would likely freak out too many church people and get me kicked off this site.
If you love God's Word as you claim,
then you know i speak truth. By patting me on the shoulder, you just downplayed what is written in the Bible.
And, that will now be between you and the Creator.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Stop playing games and answer the questions and statement from post#65. I will not address any of your post until we get your answers. Your answers will prove one way or another if your posts are worthy.

Sorry Bob, not playing your games. Post # 65 was addressed with a detailed scripture response section by section and scripture by scripture in posts # 70; post # 71; post # 72; post # 73; post # 74 and post # 75 linked. Now what is it that you disagree with and why? (scripture please). Now what is it in post # 52; post # 57; post # 58; post # 59 that you disagree with Bob and why?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Thank you for the soft pat on the shoulder, though it wasn't needed.
I don't share my views, that would likely freak out too many church people and get me kicked off this site.
If you love God's Word as you claim,
then you know i speak truth. By patting me on the shoulder, you just downplayed what is written in the Bible.
And, that will now be between you and the Creator.

And what would that be and how did I down play your post? Perhaps you have a misunderstanding of what was posted to you.

 

[Bob S]

I have a question for all of you Sabbath observers. The SDA church says God keeps the Sabbath with you. I assume that God does what He tells others to do. He told the Israelites to work six days and rest on the Sabbath. If, in fact, He is keeping the Sabbath with all of you around the World it is taking 48 hours of His time. That means He is only working five days. How do you reconcile this dilemma?

 

[Bob S]

Sorry Bob, not playing your games. Post # 65 was addressed with a detailed scripture response section by section and scripture by scripture in posts # 70; post # 71; post # 72; post # 73; post # 74 and post # 75 linked. Now what is it that you disagree with and why? (scripture please).

Just as I thought, you cannot answer, so you use the old tactic you first, but even if I did answer all your posts you have not promised to answer any of the questions and statements in post#65. That is not playing fair. You make the statement that our posts are not true, but when we ask you to tell us why, we only get the run around.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Sorry Bob, not playing your games. Post # 65 was addressed with a detailed scripture response section by section and scripture by scripture in posts # 70; post # 71; post # 72; post # 73; post # 74 and post # 75 linked. Now what is it that you disagree with and why? (scripture please). Now what is it in post # 52; post # 57; post # 58; post # 59 that you disagree with Bob and why?

Your response here..

Just as I thought, you cannot answer, so you use the old tactic you first, but even if I did answer all your posts you have not promised to answer any of the questions and statements in post#65. That is not playing fair. You make the statement that our posts are not true, but when we ask you to tell us why, we only get the run around.

Not sure if you thought this response through very well Bob or maybe you did not see the linked posts provided that address in detail post # 65? I addressed and answered post # 65 section by section and scripture by scripture and provided the linked posts above as evidence for all to see showing your claims here and elsewhere are not true. Now what is it that you disagree with and why? (scripture please).

 

[Bob S]

There is not one verse in all of the Bible that mentions "ten commandments".
Jn 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

LGW, what were the commandments Jesus kept? What is the command Jesus has asked us to keep?

 

[Bob S]

Your response here..

Not sure if you thought this response through very well Bob or maybe you did not see the linked posts provided that address in detail post # 65? I addressed and answered post # 65 section by section and scripture by scripture and provided the linked posts above as evidence for all to see showing your claims here and elsewhere are not true. Now what is it that you disagree with and why? (scripture please).

I am not sure you have read all my posts that have proven the verses you use to prove your points have no bearing on the subject, so your posts are not true. You have not proved your claim that "the commandments", "His commandments" or any other use of the word means ten commandments. Until you prove so I have to consider all that you write is false.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

There is not one verse in all of the Bible that mentions "ten commandments".
Jn 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

LGW, what were the commandments Jesus kept? What is the command Jesus has asked us to keep?

Really Bob?

What commandments are these scriptures talking about?

ROMANS 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], For this, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT KILL, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, YOU SHALL NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly summed up in this saying, namely, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.

or

JAMES 2:8-12 [8], IF YOU FULFILL THE ROYAL LAW ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURE, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF, YOU DO WELL: [9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10], FOR WHOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW, AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL.[11], FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, SAID ALSO, DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU COMMIT NO ADULTERY, YET IF YOU KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW.
[12], So speak you, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

or

ROMANS 7:7 [7] What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW: FOR I HAD NOT KNOWN LUST, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID, THOU SHALL NOT COVET.

If you do not know what law these are from let me know I will post you the references to the 10 commandments.

Now I am waiting for a response from you. According to the scriptures love is not separate from God's 10 commandments it is expressed in obedience to them in all those who have been born again into God's new covenant promise to love and have been made free to walk in God's Spirit. A detailed scripture response is provided in post # 52; post # 57; post # 58; post # 59. Now perhaps you would like to address the above posts and show why you disagree with them? (scripture please)

Hope this is helpful

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I am not sure you have read all my posts that have proven the verses you use to prove your points have no bearing on the subject, so your posts are not true. You have not proved your claim that "the commandments", "His commandments" or any other use of the word means ten commandments. Until you prove so I have to consider all that you write is false.

Sorry Bob, I have addressed everything you have ever posted to me section by section and scripture by scripture. You never seem to want to respond to my posts to you just like some of your friends here as the scriptures provided show why your claims that Gods' 10 commandments are abolished is not biblical so we will have to agree to disagree on your claims here and let God's Word judge between us *John 12:47-48.

 

[Studyman]

I have a question for all of you Sabbath observers. The SDA church says God keeps the Sabbath with you.

This is cleaver, subtle, but deceptive just the same. Faithful men were honoring God with obedience long before Ellen White was born. Faithful men have honored God and His instruction throughout history and still do today. To imply as you do, that only members of a certain religious franchise honor God with obedience is foolishness, and simply false. What the SDA or Baptists, or Calvinists say is actually irrelevant to some. There are folks who place their Trust in the Christ of the Bible and they believe in Him apart from any mainstream religion or religious philosophy.

I assume that God does what He tells others to do.

Again, you are cleaver, and very subtle, but you assume wrong. God is my Father, His Son my Redeemer. His Son is my High Priest performing duties according to the Law. Duties I was never allowed to do, just as the Levite Priests were given duties which were forbidden by any other Tribe of Israel.

Jesus tried to tell you this, but you won't listen to Him.

John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

I am not God, and I am not my own Savior, or High Priest. I am a Child of God. God can destroy life and is blameless, I am forbidden to destroy life. Jesus is mediating between me and my Father, performing Priesthood duties on HIS holy Sabbath. I am forbidden to partake of HIS Priesthood duties, Sabbath or not.

So you have not separated the difference between man and God, mostly because you omit much of His Words.

He told the Israelites to work six days and rest on the Sabbath. If, in fact, He is keeping the Sabbath with all of you around the World it is taking 48 hours of His time. That means He is only working five days. How do you reconcile this dilemma?

Your trick questions and traps for those who honor God with respect and obedience is cleaver, subtle no doubt. But if a person simply follows the instructions of the Jesus of the Bible, this foolishness is easily exposed. "Man shall Live By Every Word which Proceeds from the mouth of God"

Neither the God of the Bible, nor HIS Son, the Jesus of the Bible, ever said they had the same duties as the redeemed, Faithful servants of God. Maybe a religious philosopher of SDA, or some other religious franchise said God and Jesus had the same duties as those they teach and redeem. But the God of the Bible never did.

Therefore, there is no dilemma. Just another trap question with a false premise. Religious men have been engaged in this practice for a long long time.

 

[BABerean2]

There is not one thing that you have posted here that has any truth in it. There is not one post that you have provided in this thread or elsewhere that has not been addressed with a detailed scripture response that disagrees with your teachings that Gods' 10 commandments have been abolished in the new covenant.

The truth is I never said the ten commandments were "abolished", because the Bible does not say they were "abolished".

Christ said all of the law was to be "fulfilled" by Him in Matthew 5:17-18, and His final three words on the cross confirmed it in John 19:30.

The Bible says the Old Covenant was made "obsolete" by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:6-13.

My axe was made "obsolete" by my chainsaw, but my axe was not "abolished".

The truth is the text of Deuteronomy 5:1-22 says the Sinai Covenant was not given at an earlier time.

If the above is not true, then the Bible is not true.

-----------------------------------

The truth is that Ellen G. White said the door was shut, and later she said the door was open.
Based on this evidence can she be a prophet of God?

Ellen G. White® Estate: The "Shut Door" Documents (whiteestate.org)


"6. December, 1844--Ellen Harmon's First Vision Changed Her Mind About the Significance of the "7th Month Experience."

Under date of May 30, 1847, James White wrote:

When she received her first vision, Dec. 1844, she and all the band in Portland, Maine, (where her parents then resided) had given up the midnight-cry, and shut door, as being in the past. It was then that the Lord shew her in vision, the error into which she and the band in Portland had fallen. She then related her vision to the band, and about sixty confessed their error, and acknowledged their 7th month experience to be the work of God.--James White, A Word to the Little Flock, p. 22."


------------------------------------

.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I have a question for all of you Sabbath observers. The SDA church says God keeps the Sabbath with you. I assume that God does what He tells others to do. He told the Israelites to work six days and rest on the Sabbath. If, in fact, He is keeping the Sabbath with all of you around the World it is taking 48 hours of His time. That means He is only working five days. How do you reconcile this dilemma?

He is our Creator, what is not possible for man is possible for God. How did God make man out of dust? We could apply this logic to everything where we stop believing the scriptures. If God says something, we should believe. It’s not our place to question.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The truth is I never said the ten commandments were "abolished", because the Bible does not say they were "abolished".

Christ said all of the law was to be "fulfilled" by Him in Matthew 5:17-18, and His final three words on the cross confirmed it in John 19:30.

The Bible says the Old Covenant was made "obsolete" by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:6-13.

My axe was made "obsolete" by my chainsaw, but my axe was not "abolished".

The truth is the text of Deuteronomy 5:1-22 says the Sinai Covenant was not given at an earlier time.

If the above is not true, then the Bible is not true.

-----------------------------------

The truth is that Ellen G. White said the door was shut, and later she said the door was open.
Based on this evidence can she be a prophet of God?

.

Yes, the old covenant is obsolete because of disobedience, not because God broke His promises. The New Covenant has the same laws, now written in our hearts. Meaning we fulfill God’s laws out of love when we obey, not because He commanded us. Jeremiah 31:33

 

[Studyman]

The truth is I never said the ten commandments were "abolished", because the Bible does not say they were "abolished".

Christ said all of the law was to be "fulfilled" by Him in Matthew 5:17-18, and His final three words on the cross confirmed it in John 19:30.

The Bible says the Old Covenant was made "obsolete" by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:6-13.

My axe was made "obsolete" by my chainsaw, but my axe was not "abolished".

The truth is the text of Deuteronomy 5:1-22 says the Sinai Covenant was not given at an earlier time.

If the above is not true, then the Bible is not true.

Duet. 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

I am hoping you might answer a question here in an attempt to examine the Scriptures you posted. "Who were those that were "alive this day"?

This is important so please don't just blow the question off. You posted the Scriptures, and I am asking you a relevant question regarding them.

Are these not the same folks that created a golden calf to worship in place of God?

Ex. 32:9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:

10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.

How is it there are still Israelite's alive in Duet. 5? What happened that saved them from being destroyed?[/QUOTE]

 

[BABerean2]

The New Covenant has the same laws, now written in our hearts.

Why are you ignoring the fact that there two different sets of commandments in the words of Christ found below?


Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

.

 

[BABerean2]

Are these not the same folks that created a golden calf to worship in place of God?

The context of the passage below reveals it to be the words of Moses.

Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
Deu 5:4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
Deu 5:5 (I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to shew you the word of the LORD: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount saying,
Deu 5:6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deu 5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
Deu 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
Deu 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
Deu 5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
Deu 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Deu 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
Deu 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
Deu 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
Deu 5:16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Deu 5:17 Thou shalt not kill.
Deu 5:18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
Deu 5:19 Neither shalt thou steal.
Deu 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Deu 5:21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.


.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Why are you ignoring the fact that there two different sets of commandments in the words of Christ found below?


Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

.

According to you or according to Jesus? I believe Jesus when He said He did not come to destroy God’s laws Mathew 5:17-20 and He came to do the will of His Father John 6:38. There is no conflict between the laws of God or the commandments Jesus referred to that is based on love, in fact Jesus said Mathew 22:40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments. Meaning love is the basis of God’s commandments. We honor and love God by obeying the first four commandments and we show love to our neighbor when we honor the last six. God also told us His commandments are based on love Exodus 20:6.

Do you think we show love when we disobey like having other gods that we place before God, which could be money, or food, or anything we place above God. We show God our love when we put Him first and keep His commandments and not break them. John 14:15, 1 John 5:3, Revelations 14:12, Revelations 22:14

 

[Studyman]

The context of the passage below reveals it to be the words of Moses.

Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
Deu 5:4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
Deu 5:5 (I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to shew you the word of the LORD: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount saying,
Deu 5:6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deu 5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
Deu 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
Deu 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
Deu 5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
Deu 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Deu 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
Deu 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
Deu 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
Deu 5:16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Deu 5:17 Thou shalt not kill.
Deu 5:18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
Deu 5:19 Neither shalt thou steal.
Deu 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Deu 5:21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.
.

I knew from experience that you probably wouldn't actually engage or answer the question I posed. But I asked anyway.

 

[Studyman]

Why are you ignoring the fact that there two different sets of commandments in the words of Christ found below?


Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

.

LOL,

Of course Jesus had a different job than we do. Did God command us to create "All things"? Did the Christ not create the Law in the First place? Were you Commanded to create Laws? Did God Command you to "Save the Lost Tribe of Israel"? Of course not.

The "Word of God" which became Flesh gave us Commandments. HIS Father also Gave HIM a "Work" that we were not given.

John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

What Work did the Christ give us?

Ecc. 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

And here is the Same Christ again;

Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

There is only ONE LAW Giver for mankind, and ONE LAW given, both to the Home born, and Stranger.

God's Commandments to Jesus, was His Job, not ours.