WHY THE LAW IS A PART OF THE GOSPEL

[HARK!]

I believe simply, believing Gods Word leads to obedience through the Spirit.

This is the very simple truth. If we believe the father; we will heed his warnings. The serpent cast doubt on the Father's instructions. Had Adam and Eve believed the Father; they would have lived eternally. The didn't believe. They disobeyed. They died.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

This is the very simple truth. If we believe the father; we will heed his warnings. The serpent cast doubt on the Father's instructions. Had Adam and Eve believed the Father; they would have lived eternally. The didn't believe. They disobeyed. They died.

Yes thanks HARK! God's Word is not complicated like some make it out to be. All we need is to pray for God's guidence and and seek him through his Word. He promises to be our guide and teacher.

 

[Mr. M]

2 Timothy 3:
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Isaiah 8:20. To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word,
it is because there is no light in them.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

2 Timothy 3:
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Isaiah 8:20. To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word,
it is because there is no light in them.

Hi MM, great scriptures and ones to live by as JESUS says man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God *MATTHEW 4:4.

God bless and thanks for sharing with us here.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

There is NO GRACE without GOD'S LAW as it is GOD'S LAW that leads to GOD'S GRACE! Gods' Law shows us that we are all sinners and need God's mercy and salvation *Romans 3:23; Galatians 3:22-25; Romans 8:1-4; Ephesians 2:8-9; 1 John 5:4.

God bless.

 

[BobRyan]

Hi all there seems to be some confusion here for some people on this topic and being critical subject matter, I throught it would be good to share a different perspective as to why God's Law applied both to the Torah (all laws) but specifically to God's 10 commandments are a part of the Gospel of our Lord JESUS Christ.

These are the questions for consideration in this thread which will help the discussion...

1. HOW DOES THE BIBLE DEFINE GOSPEL?
2. WHAT ROLE DOES THE MOSAIC BOOK OF THE LAW HAVE IN THE GOSPEL (Book of the law)?
3. WHAT ROLE DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN THE GOSPEL (10 Commandments; tables of stone)?
4. IS GOD'S LAW ABOLISHED OR ESTABLISHED IN THE GOSPEL (10 Commandments)?

Friendly discussion only and please provide scripture for your belief.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

First a few questions to answer are ..

1. Is the New Covenant "another Gospel" or the "one and only Gospel".?
Answer: Gal 1:6-9 there is only one Gospel... so the New Covenant is the One and only Gospel.

2. Does the New Covenant include the Law?
Answer: Jer 31:31-34 , Hebrews 8:6-12 -- yes ... "explicitly". "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind"

3. What law is included in the Law known to Jeremiah and his readers as being "written on the heart"?
Answer: Eph 6:1-2 says it includes the Law that has the 5th commandment "as the first commandment with a promise"

4. Does the Gospel abolish/nullify the Law of God?
Answer: "Do we then abolish the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we establish the Law" Rom 3:31

5. How do lost people relate to God's Law?
Answer: the lost "Do not submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:5-8

6. How do saved saints relate to God's Law?
Answer:
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

"He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. ...9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Rom 8:4-9

"3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked." 1 John 2:3-6

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Bob how do you read Hebrews 4:1-2?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Does anyone want to discuss what the Gospel is as defined in the scriptures?

 

[BABerean2]

1 JOHN 5:2-3 [2], BY THIS WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, WHEN WE LOVE GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS [3], FOR THE IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

and is why it is written;

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

1 JOHN 3:6 WHOSOEVER ABIDES IN HIM SINS NOT: WHOSOEVER SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM OR KNOWS HIM

1 JOHN 3:9 [9], WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 JOHN 5:18 [18] We know that WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD SINS NOT; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not.

Why did you skip the end of 1 John chapter 3, which reveals the commandments John is talking about in this letter?

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


I went to buy a car one time and the dealer tried the "bait-and-switch" strategy on me.
The car in the advertisement did not match up to the cars they had on the car lot.


.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Why did you skip the end of 1 John chapter 3, which reveals the commandments John is talking about in this letter?

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


I went to buy a car one time and the dealer tried the "bait-and-switch" strategy on me.
The car in the advertisement did not match up to the cars they had on the car lot.

No. The complete post you are part quoting says...

Love is expressed through obedience to God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) as JESUS says;

MATTHEW 22:36-40 [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

ROMANS 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], FOR THIS, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.Indeed brother UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN (Breaking any one of God's 10 commandments).

1 JOHN 5:17-18 [17] ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN: and there is a sin not to death.
[18], WE KNOW THAT WHOEVER IS BORN OF GOD SINS NOT; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not.

1 JOHN 3:4 [4], Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

and again;

JAMES 2:10-11 [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

OBEDIENCE to God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) through faith that works by LOVE is how RIGHTEOUSNESS is expressed.

PSALMS 119:172 [172] My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS.

ROMANS 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], FOR THIS, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

ROMANS 3:31, Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

and is why JESUS says;

MATTHEW 22:36-40 [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

and why JOHN says;

2 JOHN 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

and again here;

1 JOHN 5:2-3 [2], BY THIS WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, WHEN WE LOVE GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS [3], FOR THE IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

and is why it is written;

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

1 JOHN 3:6 WHOSOEVER ABIDES IN HIM SINS NOT: WHOSOEVER SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM OR KNOWS HIM

1 JOHN 3:9 [9], WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 JOHN 5:18 [18] We know that WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD SINS NOT; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not.

ROMANS 2:12-13 [12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13], FOR NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST BEFORE GOD BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

and why JESUS says;

JOHN 14:15 [15] IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS

.............

Now if LOVE is the very expression of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW *ROMANS 13:8-10 and God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) are the very definition of what RIGHTOUESNESS is *PSALMS 119:172, and to break any one of God's 10 commandments is SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. How can you LOVE GOD and your NEIGHBOR as yourself, if we have no LOVE and break God's Commandments which ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS HANG *MATTHEW 22:36-40?

Unless we are BORN AGAIN to LOVE from the INSIDE OUT we are only like dead mans bones and all we can do without JESUS is SIN *1 JOHN 3:4.

When we LOVE GOD and our NEIGHBOR it is expressed through our actions.

If we LOVE our neighbour...

* We will honor our parents?
* We will not murder?
* We will not commit adultery with our neighbor's spouse?
* We will not steal from them?
* We will not lie to them?
* We will not covet what they own?

If we LOVE our God...

* We will not have other Gods?
* We will not make idols and worship them?
* We will not take his name [follow] him in vain?
* We will remember his seventh day Sabbath and keep it holy?

Now if your answer is yes then you agree with me. If your answer is no what kind of love are you talking about?

Now what is it that you disagree with here?

 

[BABerean2]

No. The complete post you are part quoting says...

Love is expressed through obedience to God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) as JESUS says;

MATTHEW 22:36-40 [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

ROMANS 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], FOR THIS, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.Indeed brother UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN (Breaking any one of God's 10 commandments).

1 JOHN 5:17-18 [17] ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN: and there is a sin not to death.
[18], WE KNOW THAT WHOEVER IS BORN OF GOD SINS NOT; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not.

1 JOHN 3:4 [4], Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

and again;

JAMES 2:10-11 [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

OBEDIENCE to God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) through faith that works by LOVE is how RIGHTEOUSNESS is expressed.

PSALMS 119:172 [172] My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS.

ROMANS 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], FOR THIS, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

ROMANS 3:31, Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

and is why JESUS says;

MATTHEW 22:36-40 [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

and why JOHN says;

2 JOHN 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

and again here;

1 JOHN 5:2-3 [2], BY THIS WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, WHEN WE LOVE GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS [3], FOR THE IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

and is why it is written;

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

1 JOHN 3:6 WHOSOEVER ABIDES IN HIM SINS NOT: WHOSOEVER SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM OR KNOWS HIM

1 JOHN 3:9 [9], WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 JOHN 5:18 [18] We know that WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD SINS NOT; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not.

ROMANS 2:12-13 [12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13], FOR NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST BEFORE GOD BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

and why JESUS says;

JOHN 14:15 [15] IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS

.............

Now if LOVE is the very expression of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW *ROMANS 13:8-10 and God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) are the very definition of what RIGHTOUESNESS is *PSALMS 119:172, and to break any one of God's 10 commandments is SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. How can you LOVE GOD and your NEIGHBOR as yourself, if we have no LOVE and break God's Commandments which ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS HANG *MATTHEW 22:36-40?

Unless we are BORN AGAIN to LOVE from the INSIDE OUT we are only like dead mans bones and all we can do without JESUS is SIN *1 JOHN 3:4.

When we LOVE GOD and our NEIGHBOR it is expressed through our actions.

If we LOVE our neighbour...

* We will honor our parents?
* We will not murder?
* We will not commit adultery with our neighbor's spouse?
* We will not steal from them?
* We will not lie to them?
* We will not covet what they own?

If we LOVE our God...

* We will not have other Gods?
* We will not make idols and worship them?
* We will not take his name [follow] him in vain?
* We will remember his seventh day Sabbath and keep it holy?

Now if your answer is yes then you agree with me. If your answer is no what kind of love are you talking about?

Now what is it that you disagree with here?

Once again, none of this post contains the end of 1 John chapter 3, which reveals the commandments John is speaking of in his letter.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


Why are you trying to redefine the commandments John gave above?

.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Once again, none of this post contains the end of 1 John chapter 3, which reveals the commandments John is speaking of in his letter.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

.

Once again I am not trying to redefine anything that is what your trying to do by seeking to separate love from law. Love is not separate from Gods' law it is expressed in obedience to God's law from the heart. This is what Jesus, Paul, James and John all teach in the scriptures provided earlier. We do not love God or our fellow man by breaking God's law as that is sin according to the scriptures and not love (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11).

When we LOVE GOD and our NEIGHBOR it is expressed through our actions.

If we LOVE our neighbour...

* Will we honor our parents?
* Will we not murder?
* Will we not commit adultery with our neighbor's spouse?
* Will we not steal from them?
* Will we not lie to them?
* Will we not covet what they own?

If we LOVE our God...

* Will we not have other Gods?
* Will we not make idols and worship them?
* Will we not take his name [follow] him in vain?
* Will we remember his seventh day Sabbath and keep it holy?

Now if your answer is yes then you agree with me. If your answer is no what kind of love are you talking about?

....................

Jesus, Paul, James and John all agree that love is not separate from God's law it is expressed in obedience to Gods' law and breaking God's law shows we do not love God or our fellow man and stand guilty before God of sin *1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11.....

MATTHEW 22:36-40 [36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. [38], This is the first and great commandment. [39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself. [40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

ROMANS 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to LOVE ONE ANOTHER: for HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], FOR THIS, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL, THOU SHALT NOT LIE, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and IF THERE SHALL BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

and again;

JAMES 2:10-11 [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

Love is expressed in obedience to God's law not breaking Gods law according to Jesus, Paul and James. Paul goes on to say that we are saved by faith but faith does not abolish Gods' law it establishes Gods' law in all those who truly believe Gods' Word

ROMANS 3:31, Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

and why JOHN says;

2 JOHN 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

and again here;

1 JOHN 5:2-3 [2], BY THIS WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, WHEN WE LOVE GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS [3], FOR THE IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

and is why it is written;

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

1 JOHN 3:6 WHOSOEVER ABIDES IN HIM SINS NOT: WHOSOEVER SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM OR KNOWS HIM

1 JOHN 3:9 [9], WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 JOHN 5:18 [18] We know that WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD SINS NOT; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not.

ROMANS 2:12-13 [12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13], FOR NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUST BEFORE GOD BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.

and why JESUS says;

JOHN 14:15 [15] IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS

This is why Jesus says "On these two commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets" - Matthew 22:36-40.

If you disagree please respond to my posts showing why you disagree from the scriptures. If you cannot than who are you disagreeing with? They are God's Words not mine.

 

[BABerean2]

Once again your ignoring scripture. Love is not separates from Gods' law it is expressed in obedience to God's law.

I am not the one ignoring John's explanation of the commandments he is speaking of in 1 John.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I am not the one ignoring John's explanation of the commandments he is speaking of in 1 John.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us..

How about I make a deal with you. If I promise to address your post and questions here in detail will you do the same to my posts instead of ignoring them? YES/NO?

 

[BABerean2]

How about I make a deal with you. If I promise to address your post and questions here in detail will you do the same to my posts instead of ignoring them? YES/NO?

When you stop ignoring 1 John 3:22-24, we might be able to make a deal.

You have quoted verses that contain the words "his commandments" from the Book of 1 John, but you have ignored the part of the letter which actually defines what those commandments are.


1Jn_2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn_2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jn_3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn_3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

.

 

[Bob S]

When you stop ignoring 1 John 3:22-24, we might be able to make a deal.

You have quoted verses that contain the words "his commandments" from the Book of 1 John, but you have ignored the part of the letter which actually defines what those commandments are.


1Jn_2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn_2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jn_3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn_3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

.

What really nails it is verse 19: This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence:

LGW keeps telling me what I write is not true. Well, John wrote the real truth and explained what the 'commandments are for Christians and actually for all mankind. Paul wrote in 2Cor3 that the ten commandments were DONE AWAY. Man would be lawless if Jesus had not given us the new covenant with the command to love others as He loves us.

It is very sad that those who proclaim that we must keep Sabbath in order to be saved when we know for sure that what Jesus did for us at Calvary is the only way we can be saved. Salvation is not earned by what we do, it is what Jesus did.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

When you stop ignoring 1 John 3:22-24, we might be able to make a deal.

Hello BABerean2, So if you happy to start responding to my posts, section by section and scripture by scripture as I do with all of your posts, then I am happy to continue and in good faith as promised I will provide a detailed scripture response to your claims in regards to 1 John 3:23 that love is separate from God's law which I believe is in disagreement with the posts, scriptures and questions already provided to you that you refuse to respond to. You seem to be accusing me here of exactly what your doing while ignoring the scriptures shared with you and many posts already but more recently on this topic in post # 52 linked that proves from the scriptures that love is not separated from God's law it is expressed through obedience to Gods' law. Anyhow no problem let's look at the scriptures in detail and see what the scriptures say in regards to your claims that love is separate from Gods' law. To do so however I might break the responses down into smaller posts so they are earlier to respond to for you.

You have quoted verses that contain the words "his commandments" from the Book of 1 John, but you have ignored the part of the letter which actually defines what those commandments are.

1Jn_2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn_2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jn_3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn_3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

IS LOVE SEPARATE FROM LAW ? (Part 1/3)

This is partly addressed in detail from the scriptures already provided in post # 52 linked that show from the scriptures that love is not separated from God's law it is expressed through obedience to Gods' law.

For example as posted earlier and shown from Matthew 22:36:40; Romans 13:8-10 and James 2:8-12 we see that....

Jesus says that on the two great commandments of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets in Matthew 22:36-40

Paul agreeing with Jesus says that if we love our neighbor as our self we will not commit adultery with our neighbors spouse, we will not kill or murder our neighbor, we will not steal from our neighbor, we will not lie to our neighbor, and not covet the things our neighbor has and goes on to say that when it says loving our neighbor as our self that is it summing up that love is expressed in obedience to those laws in God's 10 commandment that are our duty of love to our fellow man in Romans 13:8-10.

James also agreeing with both Jesus and Paul talking about the same subject matter as Paul in regards to the royal law of loving our neighbor our our self also links love being expressed as obedience to Gods' law when he says if we have respect to laws we commit sin stating that if we break any one of Gods' 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. Quoting from Gods' 10 commandments using the examples of thou shalt not commit adultery and thou shalt not kill, James says that if we break anyone of them we are transgressors of Gods' law and we will be judged by the law of liberty referring back to loving our neighbor as our self in James 2:8-12.

.............

Here we have Jesus, Paul and James all in agreement that love to God and man is expressed in obedience to Gods' law not by breaking Gods' law for example as posted earlier...

If we LOVE our neighbour...

* Will we honor our parents?
* Will we not murder?
* Will we not commit adultery with our neighbor's spouse?
* Will we not steal from them?
* Will we not lie to them?
* Will we not covet what they own?

If we LOVE our God...

* Will we not have other Gods?
* Will we not make idols and worship them?
* Will we not take his name [follow] him in vain?
* Will we remember his seventh day Sabbath and keep it holy?

Now if your answer is yes then you agree with me. If your answer is no what kind of love are you talking about where breaking any of Gods' 10 commandments is loving God or loving our fellow man?

..............

Your mistake here is in thinking that love is separate from our actions. According to the scriptures we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

The above is just the introduction to now love is expressed in obedience to God's law not by breaking Gods' law as shown in the scriptures from Jesus, James and Paul. We will be talking about Johns epistles that are also in agreement with Jesus, Paul and James in the next posts.


more to come...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

When you stop ignoring 1 John 3:22-24, we might be able to make a deal.

IS LOVE SEPARATE FROM LAW? (Part 2/3; Context of 1 John 3)

In the last post we saw the scriptures from and the very words of Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40; Paul in Romans 13:8-10 and James in James 2:8-12 who are all in agreement that love is not separate from Gods' law it is expressed in obedience to Gods' law and if we love God and our fellow man we will not be breaking Gods' law.

Now let's add John back into the mix in light of the above scripture and also add the full context to John’s epistles as we will see that John is also agreeing with Jesus, Paul and James when he says that love is expressed in obedience to Gods’ law not by breaking Gods’ law.

Let's look at the full context of 1 John 3:23.

1 John 1:5-9
John starts off his epistle of 1 JOHN in 1 John 1:5-9 where he opens and says that if we do not walk in the light (truth) of God's Word we are not following God where he finishes in v9 stating that if we confess our sins then Jesus is faithful and just to forgive us for our sins and to cleanse us from all wrong doing.

We then move on to 1 John 2 where John gives us the reason for writting his epistle. Pay very close attention to why and the reason JOHN is writting this epistle in v1.

1 JOHN 2:1-4.
[1], My little children, THESE THINGS I WRITE UNTO YOU THAT YOU SIN NOT. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

NOTE: This is very important as it states the very reason why John is writing the epistle of all God’s children in 1 John that is that we sin not!

Let’s continue…

[2], And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS .
[4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. <Remember 1 JOHN 1:5-6 walking in light and darkness>

NOTE: Same theme being presented in v3-4 those who walk in darkness do not keep God's Commandments. God's people keep God's Commandments. The context is that we sin not.
Now to show that we are talking about God's 10 commandments once again and that love is expressed through obedience to Gods’ law here we need to define from God's Word what sin is as the reason for John epistle is that we sin not.

WHAT IS SIN?

NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES

JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
[9], But if ye have respect to persons, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS.
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

Yep, James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW and commit SIN. James quotes two of the 10 Commandments saying that if we break them we commit sin v9 that are summed up in the 2nd great commandments of LOVE to God and LOVE to our neighbour in v11. Maybe you missed that one?

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW: for I had not known lust, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that he did not know what sin was without God's 10 Commandments. SIN is breaking God's commandments and Paul uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)

links to what John also says in which is also context to 1 John 3:23 that you left out...

1 JOHN 3:4 [4] Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.

John is saying the same thing as James and Paul and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments). We will look at the chapter context John uses v15 of MURDER as an example of sin which is God's 6th Command of the 10.

NOTE: Sin as defined in God's WORD is therefore breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments in both the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scriptures. So now we see from the context of 1 John 3:23 that sin is defined as the transgression of any of God's 10 Commandments. This links to 1 John 2:1 which shows the reason for Johns's epistles is that we sin not (do not break God's Commandments) which is the context of 1 John 2:3-4 that says if we break Gods’ commandments and claim to know God we are not telling the truth. So if sin is defined in God's Word as breaking any one of Gods 10 commandments then the commandment spoken about in 1 JOHN 2:3-4 are God's 10 Commandments.

1 JOHN 2:3-4
[3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS .
[4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

NOTE: Context is sin, in v1 that we sin not; God's WORD defines sin as breaking God's 10 Commandments then commandments being referred to here are the 10 Commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20)

...............

SUMMARY SO FAR 1 John 1 and 1 John 2; Those who walk in darkness or do not follow the truth of God's WORD are not following God. The reason why John is writing the Epistle of 1 John is that we do not sin. God's WORD defines sin as the breaking of anyone of God's 10 Commandments. The context of 1 John 2:3-4 is 1 John 1:2 that we sin not. Therefore the Commandments being spoken of in 1 John 2:3-4 are the 10 Commandments.

more to come....

 

[LoveGodsWord]

When you stop ignoring 1 John 3:22-24, we might be able to make a deal.

IS LOVE SEPARATE FROM LAW ? (Part 3/3; Context of 1 John 3:23)

In the first post we saw the scriptures from and the very words of Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40; Paul in Romans 13:8-10 and James in James 2:8-12 who are all in agreement that love is not separate from Gods' law it is expressed in obedience to Gods' law and if we love God and our fellow man we will not be breaking Gods' law.

In the second post we are looking at the contexts of 1 John and can see that the context of 1 John and why the epistle was written is that we sin not and that sin is defined in the scriptures as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments. If we do sin we have an advocate with the farther. The commandments being discussed here are the 10 commandments which define what sin is.

Let's continue on showing the context of in 1 John 3:22-23 where John is continuing the same topic and thoughts as Chapter 1 and Chapter 2.

1 JOHN 3:3-15
[3], And every man that hath this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
[4], Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

NOTE: JOHN is continuing his theme; that we sin not or do not break any of God's 10 Commandments

[5], And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
[6], Whosoever abides in him sins not [does not break God's 10 Commandments]: whosoever sins [breaks God's 10 Commandments] hath not seen him, neither known him

NOTE: v6 links to what JOHN says in 1 JOHN 2:3-4. v4 HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM

[7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

NOTE: Righteousness is defined as not breaking God's Commandments *Psalms 119:172

[8], He that commits sin [breaks God's 10 Commandments] is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9], Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin [does not knowingly break God's 10 Commandments]; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

NOTE: The born again believer does not practice known sin or does not knowingly break any one of God's 10 Commandments.

[10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

IMPORTANT NOTE: This is the distinguishing point and shows who God's children are and the children of the devil. The children of God do not knowingly practice sin or keep God's 10 commandments. The Children of the devil practice sin or break any one of God's 10 Commandments. This also links back what JOHN says the the previous chapter in 1 John 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS . [4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. The same is outlined of the children of God in Romans 3:31; Roamns 13:8-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12 and Revelation 22:14.

[11], For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

NOTE: Because love is the fulfilling of God's law in all those who believe and follow God's Word and is why Jesus says On these two great commandments love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets *Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10.

[12], Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

[13], Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
[14], We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loves not his brother abides in death.
[15], Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

NOTE: The context here is still that we sin not or break any of God's 10 Commandments. JOHN is using the example of Cain and Able and MURDER, which is Gods 6th commandment *Exodus 20:13. Also note these are the very words of Jesus as quoted on the sermon on the mount in regards to murder and hate and breaking Gods 10 commandments from the heart in Matthew 5:21-22. Once again John here is talking about hate and breaking Gods’ 10 commandments and love being expressed as obedience to Gods’ law which is all the immediate context to 1 John 3:23 that we sin not (break Gods’ commandments)

1 John 3:15 above also where John is referring to hate and murder (Gods commandment) is further discussed here in

1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hates his brother, he is a liar [JESUS says they gave committed murder in their heart -Matthew 5:20-22] for he that loves not his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?

So when John is talking about love he is talking about the same love that is defined by Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40; Paul in Romans 13:8-10 and James 2:8-12 and concludes the matter where he says..

1 John 5:2-3 [2], By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3], For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

..................

CONCLUSION: None love God or their fellow man while breaking any one of God's 10 commandments as love is an expression of obeying them. You cannot separate the 10 Commandments from love as they are the very expression of what love is from the heart as love is the fulfilling of God’s law under Gods new covenant promise in * Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. Everything written in these last two posts are the context of 1 John 3:23.

Now all of the above are God's Words and God's Words are not my words. If you disagree with the scriptures provided above what is it you disagree with and why? If you agree then it is Gods blessing for you if you receive His Words.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LGW keeps telling me what I write is not true. Well, John wrote the real truth and explained what the 'commandments are for Christians and actually for all mankind. Paul wrote in 2Cor3 that the ten commandments were DONE AWAY. Man would be lawless if Jesus had not given us the new covenant with the command to love others as He loves us.

The last three posts above also address your claims here Bob. If you disagree your welcome to address these posts and scriptures that disagree with your claims that God's 10 commandments have been done away. They are God's Words not mine and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. According to the scriptures no one loves God or their fellow man by knowingly breaking anyone of Gods' 10 commandments. This is the difference according to John between the children of God and the children of the devil in 1 John 3:9-10. Paul does not write anywhere that Gods' 10 commandments have been done away with or abolished in 2 Corinthians 3. It is the ministration of condemnation and death that has been done away with (the penalty for sin) through faith in Jesus and God's Word to receive God's forgiveness of sins (Romans 8:1-4; Romans 3:31; 1 John 1:9) not Gods' 10 commandments. According to Paul God's 10 commandments are holy just and good in Romans 7:12. All God's 10 commandments do that is to give us a knowledge of what sin is when we break them according to the scriptures *Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20 and lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven by faith *Galatians 3:22-25 and made free to walk in Gods' Spirit *Galatians 5:16. Your teachings here disagree with the bible and the very words of Paul and John when they says faith does not abolish God's law it establishes Gods' law in the lives of all those who believe and follow God's Word *Romans 3:31; 1 John 3:6-9; 1 John 5:2-4.