Why support the nation of Israel?

[stone]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5p8mZ-HN-0

Enough said, I think.

Ok, and you guys believe this?

Do you have any objectivity at all to what it being said or do you just go with whatever your told?

Give me a break. If christianity were a statue, it would read made in Palestine? What an insult! It's humiliating to my Lord. Was Jesus a Palestinian or was he an Israeli? You guys know the answer, i'm sure, don't you? maybe you don't?

1st of all, what kind idol worshipping descendant is this guy? Christianity a statue? Disgusting.

palestine is a word derived from ancient times and the land of the phillistines. The only time the refference to the land in recorded history was made was at a time when the Israeli's had been removed from their land and foreigners took over and to add insult to injury the refferences of palestyne or whatever those letters mean was made to that land. Maybe it does take a rocket scientist to figure it out?

When Jesus walked the earth the land was called Israel! Hello?

2nd, if the dwindling numbers of christians in Phillistine is due to the jews and not the Islamic extremist that are burning down churches, where is the reports of jews persecuting christians? It's not happening, that's why you don't hear about it. It is the extremist in Phillistine.

3rd, yes, the wall was built to prevent suicide Phillistine bombers from killing jews. They have the hatred for them in their blood. It's not there to persecute christians. I can't believe that you guys are buying this 60 minutes garbage.

The ambassador is 100% correct.

*mumbles something about lunacy*

 

[mandelduke]

I think the greatest irony of history is that the present "State of Israel" was founded by people who had suffered through the Holocaust vowing "Never again", yet they themselves treat non-Jews just as well as Hitler treated the Jews of Europe. The only difference being that Hitler was quick and efficient about it whereas the Israelis have been tightening the noose around the Palestinian neck for sixty years.

GET REAL!

 

[ArmyMatt]

gotta love when folks don't read an entire thread and then chime in, looking all foolish and whatnot. Zazal, I eagerly await your response

 

[Zeek]

Hi Matt...

I would love to respond, but have promised the Mods not to visit TAW any more, as I was reported for a perceived infringement and given a month ban which has kindly been lifted but only because I said I would debate else-where....

I would just say in parting, how anyone can claim that EC made some good points with his anti-Semite rant is beyond me, so I am not surprised to see some of the latest responses, I just wish one or two had come from some Orthodox brethren.

I have enjoyed chewing things over with you and would have gladly continued (maybe even got a conclusion) but I don't want to be banned from CF so very reluctantly I must withdraw.

Next time I am in Israel, I will see if I can get to Taybeh.

Catch you on the Boards, and may G-d bless you in every way.

Zazal.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Hi Matt...

I would love to respond, but have promised the Mods not to visit TAW any more, as I was reported for a perceived infringement and given a month ban which has kindly been lifted but only because I said I would debate else-where....

I would just say in parting, how anyone can claim that EC made some good points with his anti-Semite rant is beyond me, so I am not surprised to see some of the latest responses, I just wish one or two had come from some Orthodox brethren.
.

Had no idea you got banned and sorry to hear -

Personally, with the latest response, I didn't really see where there was an issue ...for as it concerns EC, part of me is perplexed at the passing comment on what Sister Dorthea noted in #136 when it came to agreement with EC (and Dorthea supports Jewish people as well) - in regards to what EC said in #5 /#17.

I don't agree with all thingsE.C has noted - but it is always odd whenever others take things such as what he shared (as it concerns the ways many in Israeli State are treated like others were in the Holocaust and the ways many Palestinians are demonized as "the main cause") and then choose to say it's automatically "anti-Semite".......particularly in light of how many Jewish survivors of the Holocaust and other Jews in Israel have long noted the same (more here, here, here, here, here, here and here/here). And even when they speak, they get chastised for it - as if they are neither Jewish nor experienced suffering. That's an issue...

Holocaust Survivor Hedy Epstein Speaks @ FSU Regarding the Israeli Occupation ​

Already was it the case that one Auschwitz survivor noted "I can identify with Palestinian youth" - and when ti comes to seeing some of the ways that the same things done in Israel have been done before, one can see the ways that other Israeli citizens experienced horrible things at the hands of the government, such as forced sterialization...the Ethiopian population (long discriminated against in the land) in specific (as shared before in#257 /#344 ). People have to choose to be willfully to blind not to see the ways that some things that happened in one context are again happening in another...and that there is a racial atmosphere that needs to be addressed..

Birth control shots forced on Ethiopian women.​

And on what E.C noted, there As another brother in the Lord noted best on the issue when seeing the irony of what Israel is doing:

When the Nazis locked up Polish Jews in a ghetto, it was genocide. When Israeli's steal land from Palestinians and lock them up in a ghetto, its A-Okay

How is this:

Different than this:

When the Nazis forced the Jews to wear identification, it was considered part of their genocidal plan.

When the Israelis force the Palestinians to have a similar type of identification (which they have to have if they want to move around anywhere), it is A-Okay.

This card restricts where you can go, despite being born in the area (in this case, East Jerusalem)

Spoiler: large image

This card did too:

Auschwitz survivor claims there are many similarities: :: www.uruknet.info :: informazione dal medio oriente :: information from middle east :: [vs-1]




Now, couple that with other things:

Use of human shields by Israel
Attacking Peaceful Protesters
Cutting off a people groups food supply and lively hood
Denying access to critical health care
Denying access to religious and cultural sites (while demolishing other sites and placing Israeli homes on top of it)
Taking land from a people group and displacing the people, while putting their own people there and declaring it part of their own land.



We have seen this all before. I don't like to godwin. But when you have so specific similarities (not the vague ones that people throw around), it is critical that we recognize what we have seen in the past, and what we see now....

any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
— Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2

The UN also says this about ethnic cleansing:

rendering an area ethnically homogeneous by using force or intimidation to remove from a given area persons of another ethnic or religious group

.
​

It is what it is - and sadly, there is far too often defense given more than actual addressment of where the scriptures are not upheld.

Catch you on the Boards, and may G-d bless you in every way.

Zazal

Wishing ya the best, Bruh.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

right, the OT Israel, is the prototype of the True Israel, the Israel that was from before Creation, God's Church.

Indeed...

 

[ArmyMatt]

Hi Matt...

I would love to respond, but have promised the Mods not to visit TAW any more, as I was reported for a perceived infringement and given a month ban which has kindly been lifted but only because I said I would debate else-where....

I would just say in parting, how anyone can claim that EC made some good points with his anti-Semite rant is beyond me, so I am not surprised to see some of the latest responses, I just wish one or two had come from some Orthodox brethren.

I have enjoyed chewing things over with you and would have gladly continued (maybe even got a conclusion) but I don't want to be banned from CF so very reluctantly I must withdraw.

Next time I am in Israel, I will see if I can get to Taybeh.

Catch you on the Boards, and may G-d bless you in every way.

Zazal.

bummer to hear man, we can keep up the dialogue in a PM if you like.

 

[ArmyMatt]

and I don't think there was any antisemitism. there is a difference in wanting to abuse a certain race, and calling out percieved abuses of a sovereign nation. we must not confuse the Jewish race, with the Israeli nation state. they are not the same

 

[Dorothea]

and I don't think there was any antisemitism. there is a difference in wanting to abuse a certain race, and calling out percieved abuses of a sovereign nation. we must not confuse the Jewish race, with the Israeli nation state. they are not the same

Yes. The State of Israel - its government is Secular and Political.

 

[Zeek]

bummer to hear man, we can keep up the dialogue in a PM if you like.

Thanks Matt...I think I will just stick to posting on the Boards, we covered a fair bit of ground and I know these things regarding Israel will come up all the time, especially in these perilous days....so catch me on the Boards.

( I have kept EC's diatribe in post 17 as a classic example of what most people would deem a form of anti-Semitism...and they would not be comfortable with the comparisons mentioned.)

Cheers. Zazal

 

[ArmyMatt]

no, because he is describing actions. if a group of people does something wrong, you are not against the people as a whole for doing it, you are against the set of actions. so if the Israelis are doing things similiar to the Nazis, it is not antisemetic to point that out.

 

[Zeek]

no, because he is describing actions. if a group of people does something wrong, you are not against the people as a whole for doing it, you are against the set of actions. so if the Israelis are doing things similiar to the Nazis, it is not antisemetic to point that out.

My very last word on the subject here as I don't want to be drawn into further debate etc....but just think for a moment how most Jewish people would react to their nation being compred to the actions of Nazis, when nearly everyone has lost relatives or whole families to their barbaric cruelty and merciless genocide...it is unwholesome and abhorrent, and should be exposed as such, not defended or justified.

 

[A New Dawn]

[c]Admin Hat

Thread closed at request of OP.[/c]