Why so much conservative hostility towards undocumented immigrants?

[Yarddog]

Can they prove those claims? Just because the tribes were already here when the explorers got here does not necessarily make them first.

Consider this: Who Were The First Americans?

Thanks, very interesting. I've seen a lot about this but was thinking No. America since were are talking about the Pilgrims. The tribes of the Caribbean didn't want Eupoeans either.

 

[Yarddog]

To get back to the OP, if the posts here are any indication, conservatives aren’t hostile towards illegals.

(Sorry if that was only one sentence. I’m just good at being concise.)

Your forgiven. I have been trying to steer it back to the OP. A number of times I have pointed this out in posts. Compassion...

 

[compassion 4 humanity]

In general, I’m against illegal activities. I don’t think that makes me hostile, though.

Using drugs like meth or cocaine, shoplifting, and stealing cars are examples of illegal activities. Since when is desiring a better life, wanting to feed your family, and seeking to economic opportunities an “illegal activity” that you’re against? And by the way, if you’re indifferent to all the deportation horror stories—there are a lot of them on the Internet, look them up—that sounds like hostility to me.

 

[compassion 4 humanity]

Thanks, very interesting. I've seen a lot about this but was thinking No. America since were are talking about the Pilgrims. The tribes of the Caribbean didn't want Eupoeans either.

You raise an excellent point. When the European settlers arrived at the New World hundreds of years ago, did they have passports, visas, or papers to show the native inhabitants? Did they have to prove to anyone they were legal immigrants? Was there a vetting process? For all practical purposes, they came here as illegal aliens (I use this term loosely, but it’s true). For this reason, it’s hypocritical for Americans to derail and want to deport undocumented immigrants.

 

[compassion 4 humanity]

That was for Israel.

True, God spoke to the Israelites in that verse. But you willfully omitted Malachi 3:6: “I, the Lord, do not change.” God doesn’t change, nor has he changed his opinion on treating undocumented immigrants humanely and equally.

 

[compassion 4 humanity]

A few immigrants will usually assimilated culturally, but the masses arriving here now have brought a foreign culture, which is destroying ours. They are not coming to be true citizens but to take advantage of the freedoms and wealth of America. A large part of our national debt is the money they send back to their true homelands. Many are no better than parasites on our economic and welfare systems. OUT WITH THEM, I SAY!

OldWiseGuy - apolitical moderate conservative.

If you can name just one undocumented immigrant-majority city where they enacted laws banning English and refusing to teach American history in public schools, and also making Spanish their official language and teaching Mexican history in public schools, then maybe you’ll have an argument. Go ahead, try naming one. Hint: you can’t, because immigrants do assimilate over time.

 

[redleghunter]

Since when is desiring a better life, wanting to feed your family, and seeking to economic opportunities an “illegal activity” that you’re against?

There are laws governing immigration in every nation state. That's why when one breaks these laws it's called illegal.

If a better healthier life is truly desired, I would recommend New Zealand.

 

[compassion 4 humanity]

There are laws governing immigration in every nation state. That's why when one breaks these laws it's called illegal.

If a better healthier life is truly desired, I would recommend New Zealand.

Nazi Germany had laws where it was illegal to help Jewish people escape the Holocaust. But everyone knows that saving the life of a persecuted Jew during the 1930s and '40s would be an act of virtue. In other words, an illegal activity isn't always a bad thing by default, much like how undocumented immigration isn't a bad thing just because it's illegal. Use your judgement.

 

[jgarden]

compassion 4 humanity said: ↑
The Bible says this in Leviticus 19:34: “The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt.” Obviously those foreigners residing in ancient Israel didn’t have visas or passports. They were undocumented immigrants for all practical purposes. And God is telling his chosen people to treat them as native-born residents. This means God wants us to treat undocumented immigrants in the US with compassion.

That was for Israel.

Are the 10 Commandments also only for Israel, or are we to interpret God's Word, as revealed in the Bible, as applicable to a worldwide audience?

 

[Ronald]

Of course I’m aware of drug traffickers, sex traffickers, and violent criminals who come here illegally.

1.Good, that's where the hostility is coming from. We are being invaded by these but also Islamic terrorists. It's a different world since 9/11 so we must secure our borders. Laws have been in place but they haven't been enforcing them. Ask Israel if a wall is effective in keeping out people would do you harm.
2. These 12 million came over illegally. You take that lightly? We have a history of wars for our freedoms and hundreds of thousands fought and died for them. To sustain our country, we need to protect it.

I don’t think I’ll ever understand what motivates so many other conservatives to feel so much hostility towards people just because they’re different. Yes, they came into this country illegally, but hasn’t everyone done something illegal in their life at one time? Give them a chance.

Do you realize that just in California there are 3 million illegal immigrants. Many of them aren't hard criminals, but they are costly California $25 billion/yr. in welfare, healthcare, education, housing, etc. People who came over legally and work for a living are angry that illegals are getting a free ride and the workers are having to pay for it. California has turned into a sanctuary state, protected by liberal laws and ideologies. That drums up a little anger I'd say. The country is broke with a $20 trillion debt and is still spending more than they take in. We can't afford hundreds of billions of free stuff to people who don't deserve it.
Besides, if one is willing to commit one crime, then they are likely to commit another.

 

[jgarden]

Ask Israel if a wall is effective in keeping out people would do you harm.

Did the Great Wall of China serve as an effective deterrent to northern invaders, or was the Maginot Line successful in keeping the Germans from invading France during WW2?

These 12 million came over illegally. You take that lightly? We have a history of wars for our freedoms and hundreds of thousands fought and died for them. To sustain our country, we need to protect it.

Not even "The Donald" and a Republican Congress has made a concerted effort to remove these 12 million illegals - the reasons are the horrendous costs and, despite all the rhetoric, many of the GOP donors including Trump have a vested interest in maintaining a cheap supply of labor!

Do you realize that just in California there are 3 million illegal immigrants. Many of them aren't hard criminals, but they are costly California $25 billion/yr. in welfare, healthcare, education, housing, etc. People who came over legally are [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] off that they are getting a free ride and the workers are having to pay for it.

The Republicans want to increase the national debt by $1.5 trillion to provide the wealthiest 1% with a tax cut during a "bill market" - with no guarantees that any of these cuts, financed with borrowed money, will be reinvested in the American economy!

The country is broke with a $20 trillion debt and is still spending more than they take in. We can't afford hundreds of billions of free stuff to people who don't deserve it.
Besides, if one is willing to commit one crime, then they are likely to commit another.

President Trump stands to pocket a $ billion if this current tax bill is passed - despite the fact that we have no proof that, as a billionaire, he pays a penny in taxes!

Studies have also shown that citizens born in American have a higher crime rate than those you wish to stigmatize!

 

[Hammster]

Using drugs like meth or cocaine, shoplifting, and stealing cars are examples of illegal activities. Since when is desiring a better life, wanting to feed your family, and seeking to economic opportunities an “illegal activity” that you’re against? And by the way, if you’re indifferent to all the deportation horror stories—there are a lot of them on the Internet, look them up—that sounds like hostility to me.

When you break the law to achieve something, then the activity is illegal.

 

[SolomonVII]

For the record, not every conservative is hostile towards undocumented immigrants. When John McCain ran for president in 2008, he advocated a pathway to citizenship for these people. Lindsay Graham, Jeb Bush, and other compassionate conservatives likewise support an amnesty. In fact, I’m a conservative who also feels sympathy towards the undocumented community and wants to see the government help make the good law-abiding ones become citizens.

However, Donald Trump basically became president by scapegoating people in this country illegally. When he said he would build a wall along the US-Mexico border, his support went through the roof and secured his nomination. The fact that he accumulated so much support from Republican-voters testifies to the hostility that so many conservatives feel towards undocumented immigrants. To me, this is a very sad thing.

The Bible says this in Leviticus 19:34: “The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt.” Obviously those foreigners residing in ancient Israel didn’t have visas or passports. They were undocumented immigrants for all practical purposes. And God is telling his chosen people to treat them as native-born residents. This means God wants us to treat undocumented immigrants in the US with compassion.

Of course I’m aware of drug traffickers, sex traffickers, and violent criminals who come here illegally. By all means deport them. But what about the ones who study hard, abide by all the laws and don’t commit crime, and live like normal people? They’ve been here much of their lives and should be given a pathway to citizenship.

As a Republican and compassionate conservative, I don’t think I’ll ever understand what motivates so many other conservatives to feel so much hostility towards people just because they’re different. Yes, they came into this country illegally, but hasn’t everyone done something illegal in their life at one time? Give them a chance.

Our GOP is besmirched with xenophobia and needs to clean up.

Most conservatives are for law and order, and the rule of law in the land. It is a basic political tenet that sets conservatives apart from anarchists. It is not a question of sympathy. It is a question of believing that laws are what gives a country a fair playing field.

As for yourself, how far does you love of anarchy extend? Which other illegal activity do you feel a lot of sympathy for?
And, do you support an fully open border so that there would be no such thing as illegal immigration?

 

[jgarden]

Most conservatives are for law and order, and the rule of law in the land. It is a basic political tenet that sets conservatives apart from anarchists. It is not a question of sympathy. It is a question of believing that laws are what gives a country a fair playing field.

As for yourself, how far does you love of anarchy extend? Which other illegal activity do you feel a lot of sympathy for?
And, do you support an fully open border so that there would be no such thing as illegal immigration?

America as we know it would never have existed, unless a group of "anarchists," which we now refer to as the Founding Fathers, had not challenged "law and order, and the rule of law in the land!"

When you're successful you are eulogized by posterity, when you're not you're castigated as a criminal!

 

[A_Thinker]

2. These 12 million came over illegally. You take that lightly? We have a history of wars for our freedoms and hundreds of thousands fought and died for them. To sustain our country, we need to protect it.

One can almost hear the Native Americans saying the same thing ... some hundreds of years ago ... as Europeans flooded into their lands ...

 

[Brotherly Spirit]

How far back in history must we go? I understand hundreds of years ago certain things happened, does that equate to having it happen again? Are the circumstances of this day to be held to the distant pass and against people who didn't decide any of it? For the hundreds of millions of people born here of European ancestry (and all others) as citizens of a sovereign nation, where does that leave us?

I think it's unfair to hold present circumstances absolutely to the past. It's more complicated then what happened long ago, we're trying to handle what's happening now long after the fact. Separately you can argue right and wrong as black and white, doesn't make any of this simple.

Personally I'm much as conflicted about what to do. Simultaneously as a sovereign nation, the rule of law is needed for the best interests of ALL those who've been here (citizens/legal residents etc.; while being open minded with an heart of consideration for those who would come or came/stayed illegally (crossing the border/overstaying visa etc.).

Seems to me both open borders and mass deportation are extreme. As a nation of laws, we're a country of people; for security and liberty it would help to have secure borders and due process (defending/screening for potential threats/problems). But it would go too far expecting to indiscriminately deport millions of people, many themselves who've been here for years as part of the community; worse brought here against their choice and it's all they know.

The questions at the start represent the difficulty of what I believe about it. I'm not sure how we're to solve this problem without practical compromise. If we don't unite to handle the problem sooner than later, it'll continue to divide us with no solution. Neither open borders or mass deportation will get a consensus or the perfect solution, there's no perfect solution. Only solution is one nation and one people united to do the best with what have for all of us; I see no other way.

More on topic, I don't believe most conservatives personally have problems with those breaking the law, except the law breaking itself. Sometimes people can be too inconsiderate of the immigrants circumstances, but I wouldn't go far as to say it's hostility (hate etc.).

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Using drugs like meth or cocaine, shoplifting, and stealing cars are examples of illegal activities. Since when is desiring a better life, wanting to feed your family, and seeking to economic opportunities an “illegal activity” that you’re against?

We all want a better life. We don't all just up and crash another countries borders and help ourselves to what we want. It's not as though we owe them a better life...

And by the way, if you’re indifferent to all the deportation horror stories—there are a lot of them on the Internet, look them up—that sounds like hostility to me.

Indifference, by definition, is not hostility.

 

[A_Thinker]

We all want a better life. We don't all just up and crash another countries borders and help ourselves to what we want. It's not as though we owe them a better life...

Yep ... some of us are descendants of those that jumped up and overran other peoples' lands, helping themselves to what they wanted, ... and confining and oppressing the native inhabitants.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Yep ... some of us are descendants of those that jumped up and overran other peoples' lands, helping themselves to what they wanted, ... and oppressing the native inhabitants.

...at least nobody expected them to just give up the land without a fight.

 

[redleghunter]

Are the 10 Commandments also only for Israel, or are we to interpret God's Word, as revealed in the Bible, as applicable to a worldwide audience?

That's a good topic for the theology thread. Would be glad to rap on it there.