Why should I beleive in God?

[OldShepherd]

Yes, there are many beautiful things in this world, but
if God created all those, then he must have created all the bad
things in our world:
Isa. 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, AND
CREATE EVIL. I the LORD do all these things"
Therefore, I do not see the creation of this world as proof of Gods
existence as God is meant to be good and all loving.

You are quoting this verse out-of-context! See vs. 45:1. Here God is telling Cyrus (Koresh) that He, God, is resposible for his, Cyrus', successes and failures in battle. This verse has nothing to do with creation of the world or good and evil, per se.

 

[Shy21]

all of these will happen after the second coming.

How can all that happen after the second coming? Are you saying that Revelation will happen and then those verses I quoted will happen? Also why didnt G-d speak of Revelation happening in the OT when he mentioned all this other stuff?? Doesnt really add up. G-d wouldve spoken about Revelation first in the OT and then the coming of the Messiah. Which He didnt.

See Matthew 1:6.

Jesus's mother Mary was impregnanted by the Holy Spirit...so that earthly father really isnt his father. It says the Messiah will be a descendant. How is that a descendant?

Matthew 5:9 it's even on a mountain.

G-d was talking about when the Messiah comes to earth....such as in the "end times" Thats when all that other stuff will happen. How can Jesus have performed that when he hasnt been done the other stuff that a Messiah suppose to do?

Also have you read the end of revelation their is peace then..

The OT doesnt speak of any such thing as a Revelation. It speaks about the coming of the Messiah, but G-d seem to have left out the part about a Revelation. He didnt even give us a hint about revelation in the OT...G-d told about the Coming of the Messiah.

Mt 19:28

Can you explain this?
About The Sanhedrin will be re-established. If you are talking about Jesus....he wont be one of them because G-d is talking about when the Messiah will come back and fulfill those things G-d has said and Jesus have yet to fulfill one of them. Jesus said he is one but the Bible itself says that in the end times he will do it not in the NT.

I see nothing about Sacrifices in Ezekiel 40

I put the wrong verse up...sorry. Didnt mean to talk about sacrifices.

I don't know who told you Sheol and Hell were the same thing but they aren't. The only time Hell is used to refer to Sheol is in the Creed but even that is only in the English translation. The Greek says bosom of Abraham. Sheol as far as Christians are concerned or at least ones that know anything about true Christian theology is the place of the Righteous dead of the OT Christ brought these people to heaven with him when he left Sheol on the 3rd day. Hell is the place of the unrighteous Dead.

I know She'ol and hell isnt the same....thats what I was telling the other person. I am just telling you what Christians always tell me.

 

[OldShepherd]

Jesus's mother Mary was impregnanted by the Holy Spirit...so that earthly father really isnt his father. It says the Messiah will be a descendant. How is that a descendant?

There is not one single verse in the N.T. which states that Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. In Judaism is not a person considered to be Jewish if their mother was Jewish? Mary was a Jew, a descendant of David, therefore Jesus was a Jew, a descendant of David.

The definition of "sheol" from Brown-Driver-Briggs, world renowned lexicon of Biblical Hebrew.

H7585 [SIZE=+1]שׁאל / שׁאול[/SIZE] she'ôl
BDB Definition:
1) sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit
1a) the underworld
1b) Sheol - the OT designation for the abode of the dead
1b1) place of no return
1b2) without praise of God
1b3) wicked sent there for punishment
1b4) righteous not abandoned to it
1b5) of the place of exile (figuratively)
1b6) of extreme degradation in sin
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H7592
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2303c​

 

[diamond717]

I'm posting this now because I've come to the end of my wit and I know no other place to look. I've been searching vigorously for a way back to Christianity because I miss the certainty I had when I loved God and now that I've fallen in love and will be getting married I don't want my fiancee to die and go to Hell nor would I want to bring children into this world if I don't even know what the rules are.

My request is simple: I would like someone to give me some concrete answer as to why I should beleive in God and why should I beleive he or she is truly good and holy. I am a man of science so if you try to convince me through feelings and emotions I'm afraid you'll be wasting your time. Give me evidence, unquestionable rational deductions or anything that would surely erase all doubt in my mind.

I'm pleading you to help me as a husband-to-be, a father hopefully and as a man in search of God.

For me, if God would just answer one or two of my prayers in a positive way, it would be easier to believe that he even wants me. I look at the world and believe it to be made by a divine being, but some of us need a little more proof than this. We need a personal relationship, and if that part lacks, it is very difficult to believe. If God doesn't want us, though we believe in him, what good does it do? This is my question.

This is what I'm at CF for.

 

[JJM]

How can all that happen after the second coming? Are you saying that Revelation will happen and then those verses I quoted will happen? Also why didnt G-d speak of Revelation happening in the OT when he mentioned all this other stuff?? Doesnt really add up. G-d wouldve spoken about Revelation first in the OT and then the coming of the Messiah. Which He didnt.

OK I'd like to start out by saying that the Messiah is meant to have 2 missions one as the suffering Servant and one as the Son of Man the Elect One that will be a great king. These 2 things are so different that some Jews have suggested they will actually be 2 different people. However if they are actually 1 person is it really that much of a stretch to think that they will happen at different times.

Now I'll show you where all of the things you mentioned can be found in revelation.

• Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership. (Isaiah 11:4)

There shall not enter into it any thing defiled or that worketh abomination or maketh a lie: but they that are written in the book of life of the Lamb. Revelation 21:27

There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8).

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes: and death shall be no more. Nor mourning, nor crying, nor sorrow shall be any more, for the former things are passed away. Revelation 21:4

• Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes: and death shall be no more. Nor mourning, nor crying, nor sorrow shall be any more, for the former things are passed away. Revelation 21:4 (although it doesn't mention Weapons war can't happen if death can't plus war is a former thing so it passes away.)


Knowledge of G-d will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9). (How can Book of Revelation happen?)

And I heard a great voice from the throne, saying: Behold the tabernacle of God with men: and he will dwell with them. And they shall be his people: and God himself with them shall be their God. Revelation 21:3 (if God is here his knowledge will be also)

• The whole world will worship the One G-d of Israel. (Isaiah 2:17) (How can Revelation happen?)

And I heard a great voice from the throne, saying: Behold the tabernacle of God with men: and he will dwell with them. And they shall be his people: and God himself with them shall be their God. Revelation 21:3

Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4).


And the nations shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth shall bring their glory and honour into it. Revelation 21:24

All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19).

And the sea gave up the dead that were in it: and death and hell gave up their dead that were in them. And they were judged, every one according to their works. Revelation 20:13

• Jews will have returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)

And I heard a great voice from the throne, saying: Behold the tabernacle of God with men: and he will dwell with them. And they shall be his people: and God himself with them shall be their God. Revelation 21:3 (Jews are part of the Human Race and they are in Jerusalem)

The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11).

Umm read Revelation 20:11-22:5 sounds pretty darn good to me.

The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55).

This refers to the people not necessarily the city.


God did speak of Revelation in the OT. All these prophecies take place in Revelation.

Jesus's mother Mary was impregnanted by the Holy Spirit...so that earthly father really isnt his father. It says the Messiah will be a descendant. How is that a descendant?

May I ask if a Jew adopts a son does that son not still inherit the heritage of the chosen people? He inherits the heritage from his adopted father.

G-d was talking about when the Messiah comes to earth....such as in the "end times" Thats when all that other stuff will happen. How can Jesus have performed that when he hasnt been done the other stuff that a Messiah suppose to do?

I'm sorry I should have looked at the context I just took your word for it that his is what it means. The apostle Paul writes in Rom 10:15 that this refers to those who bear the good news of Christ. Moreover this doesn't refer to the coming of the king but the suffering servant for it is that servant that frees us from the slavery to sin

The OT doesnt speak of any such thing as a Revelation. It speaks about the coming of the Messiah, but G-d seem to have left out the part about a Revelation. He didnt even give us a hint about revelation in the OT...G-d told about the Coming of the Messiah.

Yes he did as stated above

Can you explain this?
About The Sanhedrin will be re-established. If you are talking about Jesus....he wont be one of them because G-d is talking about when the Messiah will come back and fulfill those things G-d has said and Jesus have yet to fulfill one of them. Jesus said he is one but the Bible itself says that in the end times he will do it not in the NT.

Jesus told the apostles they would Judge Israel. This verse speaks of God appointing Judges. Who’s to say that the Apostles won't judge at the end times? Also they are the judges of Christ’s kingdom on earth before he comes back.

 

[JJM]

There is not one single verse in the N.T. which states that Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. In Judaism is not a person considered to be Jewish if their mother was Jewish? Mary was a Jew, a descendant of David, therefore Jesus was a Jew, a descendant of David.

The definition of "sheol" from Brown-Driver-Briggs, world renowned lexicon of Biblical Hebrew.

H7585 [SIZE=+1]שׁאל / שׁאול[/SIZE] she'ôl
BDB Definition:
1) sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit
1a) the underworld
1b) Sheol - the OT designation for the abode of the dead
1b1) place of no return
1b2) without praise of God
1b3) wicked sent there for punishment
1b4) righteous not abandoned to it
1b5) of the place of exile (figuratively)
1b6) of extreme degradation in sin
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H7592
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2303c​

yes but hell(meaning the underworld) and Hell are 2 different things

 

[OldShepherd]

yes but hell(meaning the underworld) and Hell are 2 different things

Not according to the definition I posted and the usage in the O.T. The way "sheol" is used in the O.T. fits exactly the English definition of hell. Sometimes "sheol" means simply the grave, and other times it is clearly a place of punishment and torment for the unrighteous dead. For example in Proverbs how will taking the rod to an unruly child prevent him from dying and being buried in "sheol?" In Isaiah the dead in "sheol" rise up and welcome the king of Babylon when he dies.

[bible]proverbs 23:14[/bible]
[bible]isaiah 14:9[/bible]

 

[akasmom]

www.remnantofgod.org/jesus has OT prophecies and correlating NT verses
www.carm.org has similar things

Our questioner said the idea of God was absurd: read 1 Cor 1:17-21.
Hebrews 11:6 "but w/o faith it is impossible to please Him, for he that comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those that seek Him."
Ultimately, the fact that you are asking for Him is your proof (faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." You are asking other people to prove God to you so you can believe, but God wants you to come to Him already believing that He's there and that He wants you. Ask Him for the faith. Ask Him to show up so you can know Him. He'll answer you, but you have to be prepared to follow, willing to believe. Are you ready? Put away all your preconceived notions, your objections, your science, your fear and your past. Just stand there and ask God for Himself and if you really mean it, He'll show up. Be patient, God is working in your life even now, your eyes will begin to see now.

 

[Rafael]

I'm posting this now because I've come to the end of my wit and I know no other place to look. I've been searching vigorously for a way back to Christianity because I miss the certainty I had when I loved God and now that I've fallen in love and will be getting married I don't want my fiancee to die and go to Hell nor would I want to bring children into this world if I don't even know what the rules are.

My request is simple: I would like someone to give me some concrete answer as to why I should beleive in God and why should I beleive he or she is truly good and holy. I am a man of science so if you try to convince me through feelings and emotions I'm afraid you'll be wasting your time. Give me evidence, unquestionable rational deductions or anything that would surely erase all doubt in my mind.

I'm pleading you to help me as a husband-to-be, a father hopefully and as a man in search of God.

Science should be no obstacle to faith. Many of the greatest scientists that ever lived were Christians and believed in God. Being a father will give you better perspective on how the God of the Bible views those He loves and has foreknowledge of.

Knowing God and the purpose for our existence should be paramount in our life. Go back and simplify. Look at the simple profound truths in all things. Science, archeology, history - it does not matter what or where you search, if you are humbly approaching God, not being pridefully demanding, and are seeking Him with all your heart, you will find Him in all things.

Evidence? What has man provided as concrete in evidence except for a lack of any power to even understand the simplest of powers displayed by the creation he dwells within? Man has only the pride of life and ego to display. How much and how accurate are man's calculations and imaginations towards the powers and dimensions we only sense and have barely discovered? Science is a method of searching what has already been given us to as a reality. The more we learn, the more we see that there are dimensions and worlds of knowledge we just do not have. God controls and uses them all to bring life and pleasure to Himself. We live within God, existing and having our being in Him, because He has made us in His image to have fellowship with Him as a family. He has created an environment to express Himself in a physical dimension, causing all other dimensions to work together in harmony to do this. This is why Jesus exists as God in the flesh - the physical manifestation of God where God walks with man.

The testimony of Jesus is the testimony of prophecy given from the beginning of the Bible to the end where He returns and establishes a physical kingdom on earth. The land from the Nile river to the Euphrates in Iraq will be designated as the land that His Redeemed with inhabit for a 1000 years, where they will judge, with Him, the nations remaining after the great tribulation. If you follow the news and study the prophecies of scripture, you will see these things coming to pass in the Middle East.

If you are thinking that you are being called back into the flock by the Holy Spirit of God, you will just know without some kind of scientific witness. You will know because of life. God has spoken to all men with life and they all are conscious because He has made it so, not giving themselves one breathe. If you respond and seek Him, you will find Him because He is as near as the next word from your mouth saying that you believe that He is and is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him. I started out as rebellious and agnostic, and now look back with much regret for not having the wisdom to serve Him and others in this life better, as that is what we are created for as family - to learn what true love is. Here is what the Holy Spirit told James love is, and our debt to all men is love which is the challenge of a lifetime to perform. However, with the new birth (spiritual) from God, we have the abiding presence of God within us to help us through this life to perform those good deeds by faith - knowing that the wage of reward comes when the job and day is done with this life. Our whole purpose is preparing ourselves in character to be family with the God who is love.

Seek Him and you will find Him. If you just seek to disprove, then you will never find, as He resists the pride of man that stands in the middle of creation and denies a Creator. He tells us that we know by instinct that there is God but that we trade these truths in for lies to suit our own desires and lusts.



Romans 1:18 But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who push the truth away from themselves.
19 For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts.
20 From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.
21 Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused.
22 Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead.



Romans 10:8 Salvation that comes from trusting Christ—which is the message we preach—is already within easy reach. In fact, the Scriptures say, "The message is close at hand; it is on your lips and in your heart."
9 For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved.


I JOHN 3:16-19 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with ACTIONS and TRUTH. This then is how we KNOW that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence whenever our hearts condemn us.

 

[Bonhoffer]

You should believe in God because it is a provable fact.

Anyone who denies God does not do so due to intellectual issues, their atheism is due to a sin of the heart. Doesnt Psalms say "the fool in his heart says there is no God"?

 

[The thinker]

I'm posting this now because I've come to the end of my wit and I know no other place to look. I've been searching vigorously for a way back to Christianity because I miss the certainty I had when I loved God and now that I've fallen in love and will be getting married I don't want my fiancee to die and go to Hell nor would I want to bring children into this world if I don't even know what the rules are.

My request is simple: I would like someone to give me some concrete answer as to why I should beleive in God and why should I beleive he or she is truly good and holy. I am a man of science so if you try to convince me through feelings and emotions I'm afraid you'll be wasting your time. Give me evidence, unquestionable rational deductions or anything that would surely erase all doubt in my mind.

I'm pleading you to help me as a husband-to-be, a father hopefully and as a man in search of God.

Hmm...
The best proof I could offer is personal experiance. Every time I have personally prayed out loud for somthing that I sincerely need, not want but need it has happened most of the times it happened almost immediatly. An example was a few weeks ago: I my eye sight has been getting worse for a while now and doctors thought when I was little I would go blind, well a few weeks ago a patch in my eye sight went fuzzy and all black and I couldn't see...the patch got bigger and bigger and I started getting really scared. Then when I was at the point of not being able to see anything at all I just fell on my knees and prayed out loud... then when I opened my eyes I could see better and the patch over the next minute got smaller and dissapeared and my vision has been fine ever since then.

I know this isn't really much proof, if you wanted you could state loads of reasons why this wasn't God but the fact is things like this happen all the time, I know one person who broke her neck and was in hospitle paralized but by the grace of God she was somehow healed and walked out of the hospitle two days later. They took x-rays and the break in her neck had "dissapeared".IMO These things happen too many times to be coincidence or somthing else.

The problem is that you need faith in the first place to experiance this kind of stuff... it may sound like rubbish to lots of people but you need to be there at the time to know what it's like.

I personly also like to prove things with science and I have thought up my own little theory for what God is or how he does things. I have been thinking that maby he is or he controls a kind of sub-atomic energy and can therefore control and move atoms around. Which would kind of explane how God can be all around and inside of us and when physical miracles happen.

Its not just miracles though its everything about the religion, feelings, experiances, the people you meet, prayer time, the feeling of love when you are in a real Christian enviroment(I don't mean formal church but at a christians house with a group of other Christians) but you said that kind of stuff doesn't convince you so I'll stop ranting now.

 

[Shy21]

There is not one single verse in the N.T. which states that Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. In Judaism is not a person considered to be Jewish if their mother was Jewish? Mary was a Jew, a descendant of David, therefore Jesus was a Jew, a descendant of David.

But Christians have told me that Jesus would be a decendant of his father and therefore he was not. But yes if it was Mary...he would be a Jew. Christians are the ones that tell me that Mary was inpregnanted by the Holy Spirit. If you dont mind....who was Mary inpregnanted by?

The definition of "sheol" from Brown-Driver-Briggs, world renowned lexicon of Biblical Hebrew.

H7585 [size=+1]שׁאל / שׁאול[/size] she'ôl





BDB Definition:
1) sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit
1a) the underworld
1b) Sheol - the OT designation for the abode of the dead
1b1) place of no return
1b2) without praise of God
1b3) wicked sent there for punishment
1b4) righteous not abandoned to it
1b5) of the place of exile (figuratively)
1b6) of extreme degradation in sin
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H7592
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2303c




​

I know what she'ol is. I know its a grave thats why i said it isnt a place were you suffer such as in Christianity there Hades or whatever it is is a place were people suffer. No were in your post or the dctionary does it state She'ol as a place to suffer.





Also I was not trying to start a debate and I even said this. That girl/guy asked me why Jews dont belive in Christ and I gave her an answer. Then this other person asked me more questions and I answered them. I made it clear in one of my post I wasnt trying to start a debate or argument. You can go find the post if you want.

 

[Spyr]

Hmm...
The best proof I could offer is personal experiance. Every time I have personally prayed out loud for somthing that I sincerely need, not want but need it has happened most of the times it happened almost immediatly. An example was a few weeks ago: I my eye sight has been getting worse for a while now and doctors thought when I was little I would go blind, well a few weeks ago a patch in my eye sight went fuzzy and all black and I couldn't see...the patch got bigger and bigger and I started getting really scared. Then when I was at the point of not being able to see anything at all I just fell on my knees and prayed out loud... then when I opened my eyes I could see better and the patch over the next minute got smaller and dissapeared and my vision has been fine ever since then.

I know this isn't really much proof, if you wanted you could state loads of reasons why this wasn't God but the fact is things like this happen all the time, I know one person who broke her neck and was in hospitle paralized but by the grace of God she was somehow healed and walked out of the hospitle two days later. They took x-rays and the break in her neck had "dissapeared".IMO These things happen too many times to be coincidence or somthing else.

The problem is that you need faith in the first place to experiance this kind of stuff... it may sound like rubbish to lots of people but you need to be there at the time to know what it's like.

I personly also like to prove things with science and I have thought up my own little theory for what God is or how he does things. I have been thinking that maby he is or he controls a kind of sub-atomic energy and can therefore control and move atoms around. Which would kind of explane how God can be all around and inside of us and when physical miracles happen.

Its not just miracles though its everything about the religion, feelings, experiances, the people you meet, prayer time, the feeling of love when you are in a real Christian enviroment(I don't mean formal church but at a christians house with a group of other Christians) but you said that kind of stuff doesn't convince you so I'll stop ranting now.

One of the things that sorely dissapoints me in religion, and especially christianity and islam, is the lack of faith (no pun intended) put in Man. I'd like you to consider that maybe it might be possible for people to do incredible things in themselves and not as a miracle from god. Perhaps the power that is exercised (the sight that was restored, the neck that was fixed, the leg that was healed) isn't that of a devine being. Could it be that man has that ability in them?

All through my christian phase I was under the impression that I was always second. I would try my very best trying to be like jesus knowing full well I would never be as good no matter how I tried. I had accepted my role as his inferior whole-heartedly. But I'm not. No one is inferior to anyone and it's my hope that one day the world will realize that we can do a lot more than pray. That prayer is tapping into a power within us that doesn't care if we pray to jesus. It's the mother's love that cures her son when he has no hope of living. It's a best friends own abilities that lifts a car off their own friend to save their life. It's your own desire to see that cured your eyes.


I know it's sacrilegious but once you look at the world through the eyes of someone who realizes there own potential for greatness you'd be amazed at the vistas that open up. You might consider trying it. (again any offensiveness that comes through is most certainly not directed at you. I greatly appreciate your input and strongly encourage more!)

 

[gaweatherford]

One of the things that sorely dissapoints me in religion, and especially christianity and islam, is the lack of faith (no pun intended) put in Man. I'd like you to consider that maybe it might be possible for people to do incredible things in themselves and not as a miracle from god. Perhaps the power that is exercised (the sight that was restored, the neck that was fixed, the leg that was healed) isn't that of a devine being. Could it be that man has that ability in them?

All through my christian phase I was under the impression that I was always second. I would try my very best trying to be like jesus knowing full well I would never be as good no matter how I tried. I had accepted my role as his inferior whole-heartedly. But I'm not. No one is inferior to anyone and it's my hope that one day the world will realize that we can do a lot more than pray. That prayer is tapping into a power within us that doesn't care if we pray to jesus. It's the mother's love that cures her son when he has no hope of living. It's a best friends own abilities that lifts a car off their own friend to save their life. It's your own desire to see that cured your eyes.


I know it's sacrilegious but once you look at the world through the eyes of someone who realizes there own potential for greatness you'd be amazed at the vistas that open up. You might consider trying it. (again any offensiveness that comes through is most certainly not directed at you. I greatly appreciate your input and strongly encourage more!)

That particular post gives clear insight to your inability to adhere to the God of the bible. You seem to take your existance for granted as if you are your own orgin. I believe after reading all of your post, that you have become base, concerning your beliefs- to the point where your senses are dulled.

You cannot expect to be.......just because you are.

If you do, then you'll begin to worship the creation instead of the creator. Don't get me wrong, you are allowed to do that; but, once you begin to individualize perception and logic into something holy of your own, then that will stress your own individual dignity and worth......, and God won't have a whole lot to do with that. One thing about God is: God will allow you to move from him if YOU want. There's an old saying that says, "If God has moved from you......, guess who moved.

According to your post, you are constructing an outline that will not contain the loyalty of God. Do not do that. We are only simple creations....and the fact that you exist at all is proof of God's existence. Notice how well this is articulated by Paul, an apostle for Christ:

Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made (you), even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse; because when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were they thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

God bless.

 

[JJB]

I'm posting this now because I've come to the end of my wit and I know no other place to look. I've been searching vigorously for a way back to Christianity because I miss the certainty I had when I loved God and now that I've fallen in love and will be getting married I don't want my fiancee to die and go to Hell nor would I want to bring children into this world if I don't even know what the rules are.

Spyr,
I haven't read the whole thread, I stopped at your OP. Do you not see in your quote above that you left certainty and entered the world of uncertains? You are seeking what you lost. Look to God. Look to Jesus. Pray for faith. Pray for your future spouse.

Now I'll go read the rest of the thread. I hope I am not repeating what others have said, and if so maybe it's because it's what you need to consider again.

 

[OldShepherd]

But Christians have told me that Jesus would be a decendant of his father and therefore he was not. But yes if it was Mary...he would be a Jew. Christians are the ones that tell me that Mary was inpregnanted by the Holy Spirit. If you dont mind....who was Mary inpregnanted by?

Here is where you are supposed to actually read the N.T., quote the relevant passage, and hopefully prove me wrong, not reference what some Christians may or may not have told you.

I know what she'ol is. I know its a grave thats why i said it isnt a place were you suffer such as in Christianity there Hades or whatever it is is a place were people suffer. No were in your post or the dctionary does it state She'ol as a place to suffer.

Excuse me? You quoted the definition I posted and you say sheol, "isnt a place were you suffer?" Please read the highlighted part of my quote.

The definition of "sheol" from Brown-Driver-Briggs, world renowned lexicon of Biblical Hebrew.

H7585 [size=+1]שׁאל / שׁאול[/size] she'ôl

BDB Definition:
1) sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit
1a) the underworld
1b) Sheol - the OT designation for the abode of the dead
1b1) place of no return
1b2) without praise of God
1b3) wicked sent there for punishment
1b4) righteous not abandoned to it
1b5) of the place of exile (figuratively)
1b6) of extreme degradation in sin
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H7592
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2303c​

Also read the Isaiah passage, I quoted, the inhabitants of sheol are certainly being tormented, punished long after their deaths, as will be the king of Babylon, when he joins them in sheol.

Also I was not trying to start a debate and I even said this. That girl/guy asked me why Jews dont belive in Christ and I gave her an answer. Then this other person asked me more questions and I answered them. I made it clear in one of my post I wasnt trying to start a debate or argument. You can go find the post if you want.

You made incorrect assertions about Christians and the scriptures, I quoted the post I was addressing. When you do that, you can expect to be corrected by those who know what Christians actually do and do not believe.​

 

[Vigil]

You made incorrect assertions about Christians and the scriptures, I quoted the post I was addressing. When you do that, you can expect to be corrected by those who know what Christians actually do and do not believe.

Well said Brother!
AMEN!


God Bless
Vigil.

 

[The thinker]

One of the things that sorely dissapoints me in religion, and especially christianity and islam, is the lack of faith (no pun intended) put in Man. I'd like you to consider that maybe it might be possible for people to do incredible things in themselves and not as a miracle from god. Perhaps the power that is exercised (the sight that was restored, the neck that was fixed, the leg that was healed) isn't that of a devine being. Could it be that man has that ability in them?

All through my christian phase I was under the impression that I was always second. I would try my very best trying to be like jesus knowing full well I would never be as good no matter how I tried. I had accepted my role as his inferior whole-heartedly. But I'm not. No one is inferior to anyone and it's my hope that one day the world will realize that we can do a lot more than pray. That prayer is tapping into a power within us that doesn't care if we pray to jesus. It's the mother's love that cures her son when he has no hope of living. It's a best friends own abilities that lifts a car off their own friend to save their life. It's your own desire to see that cured your eyes.


I know it's sacrilegious but once you look at the world through the eyes of someone who realizes there own potential for greatness you'd be amazed at the vistas that open up. You might consider trying it. (again any offensiveness that comes through is most certainly not directed at you. I greatly appreciate your input and strongly encourage more!)

I agree that people can be quite powerful on their own but not to a large degree, My granddad used to believe in mind over body(which is basically what you're saying) very strongly and he could do some pretty cool things i.e. withstanding pain but a few years ago he dropped a chainsaw on his foot and sliced it open, he lost a huge amount of blood but he wouldn't let my mum take him to the hospital because he believed he could over come it with his mind... well he lost so much blood that he passed out and my mum rushed him to the hospital when he got there they found out that just one or two more min's and he would have bled to death. When my sight was healed I just had to pray once but my granddad had a huge amount of faith that he could heal himself but nothing happened so I am sceptical of "mind over body".

 

[Spyr]

That particular post gives clear insight to your inability to adhere to the God of the bible. You seem to take your existance for granted as if you are your own orgin. I believe after reading all of your post, that you have become base, concerning your beliefs- to the point where your senses are dulled.

You cannot expect to be.......just because you are.

If you do, then you'll begin to worship the creation instead of the creator. Don't get me wrong, you are allowed to do that; but, once you begin to individualize perception and logic into something holy of your own, then that will stress your own individual dignity and worth......, and God won't have a whole lot to do with that. One thing about God is: God will allow you to move from him if YOU want. There's an old saying that says, "If God has moved from you......, guess who moved.

According to your post, you are constructing an outline that will not contain the loyalty of God. Do not do that. We are only simple creations....and the fact that you exist at all is proof of God's existence. Notice how well this is articulated by Paul, an apostle for Christ:

Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made (you), even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse; because when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were they thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

God bless.

Look at your choice of words, it's almost to the point of an insult saying that we're simple creations. But more importantly even if we are merely creations and owe worship and allegiance to our creator, what makes you beleive that the god you serve is the right one? And that's the root of my dilema. If I'm to accept what your saying and give up my will to another how then can I be certain that yours is the right one? You could be wasting your life following the wrong deity.

Many have told me that they can feel it, they just know that the god they love is the one true god... but i've heard that from muslims and orthodox christians and catholics and mormons and reformed mormons and jehovah's witnesses and boudhists and wiccans... do you see what I mean? Your, or anyone else's, personal conviction is simply not enough no matter how many eloquent scriptures or proverbs or sayings might be held up as proof. Please understand that I'm not insulting you and I have a great respect for your beleifs but look around at all the other choices there are, the decision making is terribly daunting.

 

[JJB]

Spyr,
From your OP it sounds like you knew God, if that is so you already know the answer to your own questions.