Why seek "God"?

[ananda]

I see our destiny as potentially more than just eternal rest.

What is that alternative destiny that you are searching for?

I don't see it as empty speculation. Up until recently there was a great deal of consensus in the western world that this was the truth about the human condition. It seems to me very arrogant to assume that now in the modern age we are free to just sweep that under the rug because we find it inconvenient or we are so in love with the idea of human progress. Humanistic Buddhism fits nicely with this paradigm, but it potentially indicates a lack of an appropriate amount of intellectual humility in the face of a past century of unprecedented violence, to make an idol of our own human abilities to find truth.

To be blunt, your approach seems like self-dosing with morphine, even though you don't a firm grasp on what the "disease", the human condition, ultimately is. My approach is more like putting my trust in a physician to ultimately cure the disease. And that trust is not unearned, it is not "blind faith" or fideism as far as I'm concerned. This is more about intersubjectivity than the subjectivity you are describing. It seems to me there is more wisdom actually in this approach, because it is willing to be open to the experience of other persons.

I have no problem with learning about the experiences of others, as long as I can verify them for myself. I have yet to verify "God" or "Jesus".

 

[ananda]

well I am not familiar with the god of Buddhists but my doctrine as a muslim is that God is the god of all people...there is one god in the universe whom we should worship ..why can't this god be for everyone for Christians jews muslims and even Buddhists??

There is no "the god" of Buddhists. We perceive no supreme, eternal, intelligent deity. I see no need why a supreme deity would need worship. Have you observed your deity yourself?

 

[ananda]

i'm sorry to say, but the doctrine of dukkha is dumb, though it verges on the truth, because the real situation is that there is a struggle between the "Light" and the "darkness", good and evil,

Does it make sense to say: Because we struggle between good and evil, therefore I brush my teeth?

Or, is it more reasonable to say: because I experience dukkha (dissatisfaction) in many ways if I don't, therefore I brush my teeth?

not (just) between having willingness/unwillingness and not having willingness/unwillingness, for if e.g. Jesus had no willingness to save people, He would hardly save anybody...

Blessings

An alleged Jesus allegedly saves people ... from what?

 

[FireDragon76]

What is that alternative destiny that you are searching for?

It's not that I am necessarily searching for an alternative destiny beyond rest, but as the Scriptures say we cannot imagine, "What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived" -- the things God has prepared for those who love him" (1 Cor 2:9)

As I said, the sacraments point to this heavenly and ineffable reality now, but we only see it dimly.

 

[ananda]

It's not that I am necessarily searching for an alternative destiny beyond rest, but as the Scriptures say we cannot imagine, "What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived" -- the things God has prepared for those who love him" (1 Cor 2:9)

As I said, the sacraments point to this heavenly and ineffable reality now, but we only see it dimly.

As you can probably imagine, my concern again goes back to personal verification.

... because if "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no human mind has conceived" ... the same argument can be made for any other faith-based religion.

 

[Robban]

What is that alternative destiny that you are searching for?

I have no problem with learning about the experiences of others, as long as I can verify them for myself. I have yet to verify "God" or "Jesus".

If someone told you they had a visit from an angel,

how would you go about verifying it?

You cannot not unless you were there at the time, or what?

 

[ananda]

If someone told you they had a visit from an angel,

how would you go about verifying it?

You cannot not unless you were there at the time, or what?

I cannot verify it. Why do you ask?

 

[Robban]

I cannot verify it. Why do you ask?

You cannot veryfy it.
Does this mean it never happened?

 

[ananda]

You cannot veryfy it.
Does this mean it never happened?

I can't say one way or the other.

It begs the question: If I can't verify the event for myself, what does it say about that alleged deity who allegedly sent that alleged messenger?

 

[Robban]

I can't say one way or the other.

It begs the question: If I can't verify the event for myself, what does it say about that alleged deity who allegedly sent that alleged messenger?

Personal.

 

[ananda]

Personal.

I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[Noxot]

P.S. Love is not the highest virtue, in Buddhism (as love involves attachment, and attachment involves dukkha).

in christianity we view that no virtue is useful without being covered over with love. what is the highest virtue in buddhism?

 

[Robban]

I'm not sure what you mean.

Well, you asked a question in post #309,
I gave you my answer.

 

[ananda]

in christianity we view that no virtue is useful without being covered over with love. what is the highest virtue in buddhism?

Equanimity and wisdom. Equanimity, because it produces the clarity of mind for wisdom to arise when we investigate the laws of reality. Wisdom, because it produces detachment and reveals the bliss of nibbana.

 

[ananda]

Well, you asked a question in post #309,
I gave you my answer.

OK. It tells me that it is a limited intelligence that must work within the constraints of time and space.

 

[Robban]

OK. It tells me that it is a limited intelligence that must work within the constraints of time and space.

It is nothing of the sort,
we are talking here of infinite wisdom.

In the beginning, people looked at the World about them in wonder,
then they began to make sense of whatever they could.

But wonder persisted,
eventually they came to believe they could understand everything.

that whatever does not make sense is simply not true,
it does not exist.

That`s when wonder died.

 

[Noxot]

since humans can't escape from having something above them it means that they will have a kind of "god". a god that is not human would be satan. I can accept nibbana as a transcendent mystery but I would never accept that the mass adherents of a religion would know the depths of a thing.

 

[ananda]

It is nothing of the sort,
we are talking here of infinite wisdom.

Why would "infinite wisdom" deliver a message only allegedly known to a select few, and which nobody else can authenticate?

 

[Robban]

Why would "infinite wisdom" deliver a message only allegedly known to a select few, and which nobody else can authenticate?

Because infinite wisdom knows the needs of each?

 

[ananda]

Because infinite wisdom knows the needs of each?

Do you follow Allah and Islam, then?