Why seek "God"?

[ananda]

and what guarantee is there that "zeus" is a true God/not an idol and (that) 'waiting for entrance into elysium' is not a heresy?!

There is no guarantee ... I'm stating - since you don't require knowledge, but only faith - there's apparently no reason to choose Jesus & his heaven over Zeus & Elysium.

if the power to save humankind has resided in the individual, then why has no human managed to save humankind from all ills/woes/sufferings?! ... of course i was talking about saving humankind from evils, ills, woes, sufferings, death, hell, etc.

In my experience, everyone must ultimately help themselves.

how many times did i explain this to you?!, and it seems as if you even forget english or (as you call it) 'have no knowledge of' english spontaneously or i also don't know how, but it seems more and more as if you are deliberately insolent...

Do you believe I was being disrespectful by asking you to clarify your meaning of "overall"?

you demonstrate great dullness, which is seemingly a tricky way you try to circumvent the encounter with the truth, and it seems that you just try to impose your teaching on others rather than there be faithfulness to the truth in you, you are proof of one thing for sure, namely that if most buddhists are like you, then buddhism is certainly a means only of a boring and vain waste of time of others...

Blessings

What you perceive as "boring and vain waste of time", I'd like to believe I am instead being (hopefully) patient.

 

[dlamberth]

if the power to save humankind has resided in the individual, then why has no human managed to save humankind from all ills/woes/sufferings?!

First, even 2000 years after Jesus came onto the scene, humankind still experiences its ills, woes and suffering. Historically, some of those horrific events were caused by those very people who call themselves followers of Jesus. So at this point, no one, not even Jesus has managed to save humankind from itself.

 

[toLiJC]

There is no guarantee ... I'm stating - since you don't require knowledge, but only faith - there's apparently no reason to choose Jesus & his heaven over Zeus & Elysium.

has the knowledge ever made you become a savior like Jesus and His true disciples presented in the Bible?!, but here is how you are a buddhist unable to save humans after such a long knowledgeable experience on your part, which is just one of the billions of proofs (indicating) that knowledge is not a priority in the faith - why exactly knowledge, why not truth based on righteousness?! (maybe you will say (on this) that you have no knowledge of it)

In my experience, everyone must ultimately help themselves.

this is more or less a misbelief, because there is a great potential for salvation in the true God waiting for worshipers that practice the faith right (enough), which means God doesn't need any worshiper to be wise, glorious or mighty instead of Him, but here is how spiritual people that have not believed in Him haven't had the "anointing" to work effectively for true salvation of humans

Hebrews 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him."

Do you believe I was being disrespectful by asking you to clarify your meaning of "overall"?

usually, when i use non-biblical terms (as is the case with "overall"), i use the meanings of the words presented in the official dictionaries, so the meaning of "overall" is: all-encompassing/all-embracing and complete (as it is explained here: overall Meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary, and here: overall - definition of overall in English | Oxford Dictionaries)

so 'overall salvation' means not only full salvation but also salvation for all humans/souls

What you perceive as "boring and vain waste of time", I'd like to believe I am instead being (hopefully) patient.

but are you really helpful to the billions of people that still suffer from many evils with that your buddhism?!, because i never saw a buddhist saving human beings no less/worse than Jesus and His true disciples

Blessings

 

[toLiJC]

First, even 2000 years after Jesus came onto the scene, humankind still experiences its ills, woes and suffering. Historically, some of those horrific events were caused by those very people who call themselves followers of Jesus. So at this point, no one, not even Jesus has managed to save humankind from itself.

why do you expect one person, albeit the only begotten firstborn Son of the true God, to save all the world/humankind alone?!, do you think that there is no need for as many true spiritual servants as possible?!

Daniel 7:9 "I kept looking Until thrones were set up, And the Ancient of Days took His seat; His vesture was like white snow And the hair of His head like pure wool. His throne was ablaze with flames, Its wheels were a burning fire.",

Romans 11:25 "I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery-- so that you will not be wise in your own estimation-- that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;",

Revelation 5:8-10 "When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying, Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."

Blessings

 

[ananda]

has the knowledge ever made you become a savior like Jesus and His true disciples presented in the Bible?!, but here is how you are a buddhist unable to save humans after such a long knowledgeable experience on your part, which is just one of the billions of proofs (indicating) that knowledge is not a priority in the faith - why exactly knowledge, why not truth based on righteousness?! (maybe you will say (on this) that you have no knowledge of it)

Along with every other member of the Sangha, I am a savior, insofar as we live out the Path of Righteousness which brings the transcendental peace of nibbana, demonstrating to others that they too can follow us towards nibbana.

Truth, is based on wisdom and knowledge. By knowledge and wisdom, we extinguish ignorance, and by extinguishing ignorance, we extinguish the causes for dukkha.

this is more or less a misbelief, because there is a great potential for salvation in the true God waiting for worshipers that practice the faith right (enough), which means God doesn't need any worshiper to be wise, glorious or mighty instead of Him, but here is how spiritual people that have not believed in Him haven't had the "anointing" to work effectively for true salvation of humans Hebrews 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him."

How is it a misbelief, when I can directly know - in the here-and-now - that helping myself produces results?

usually, when i use non-biblical terms (as is the case with "overall"), i use the meanings of the words presented in the official dictionaries, so the meaning of "overall" is: all-encompassing/all-embracing and complete (as it is explained here: overall Meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary, and here: overall - definition of overall in English | Oxford Dictionaries) so 'overall salvation' means not only full salvation but also salvation for all humans/souls

I have no evidence or proof, much less knowledge, that "overall salvation" can happen.

but are you really helpful to the billions of people that still suffer from many evils with that your buddhism?!, because i never saw a buddhist saving human beings no less/worse than Jesus and His true disciples

Blessings

The Dhamma is ever-present, in the Laws embedded into Reality, to be understood and wisely practiced by the diligent. Those in the Sangha are visible reminders that the Path of Dhamma can be tread, and tread successfully, serving as exemplars to all. All that remains is for the willing individual to understand and practice, to walk the Path towards self-deliverance.

 

[toLiJC]

Along with every other member of the Sangha, I am a savior, insofar as we live out the Path of Righteousness which brings the transcendental peace of nibbana, demonstrating to others that they too can follow us towards nibbana.

in principle i have nothing against good of others, however, as a witness of the true Lord God i am more or less kind of obliged to witness to His truth (i.e. even if It somehow contradicts any of their beliefs), in this case i can say that there is something better/greater than nibbana, namely the overall salvation in the true One, which is myriads of times as good as nibbana - just imagine how much better it will be if there is perfect salvation and abundant life for every person/soul

Truth, is based on wisdom and knowledge. By knowledge and wisdom, we extinguish ignorance, and by extinguishing ignorance, we extinguish the causes for dukkha.

wisdom and knowledge are the things that are most critical in biblical scripture, which is why there is often speech about righteousness and truth therein instead of wisdom and knowledge i.e. mostly because of the distorted world beliefs/notions about wisdom and knowledge (remember that eve and adam "sinned a great sin" by "eating" from the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil", which is said to be "desirable for gaining wisdom/to make one wise")

How is it a misbelief, when I can directly know - in the here-and-now - that helping myself produces results?

ok, hopefully, the produced results will ultimately turn out to be really good for all humans/souls, but i can again say the words of the true One, namely, nevertheless be careful that it not turn out you are involved in spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness, because the "darkness" also has its deep secrets

I have no evidence or proof, much less knowledge, that "overall salvation" can happen.

and this is an indication that you have followed an imperfect religion, because there is really overall salvation(at least as a potential if not yet as a practical achievement) in the true One, but here is how some (religious) worshipers haven't even heard/known about it although it is explained in the biblical scriptures - of course, as you may have already seen, unfortunately there has not been endlessly lasting salvation for all the hitherto elapsed time's infinity, nor can there be such salvation for all the coming time's infinity, in the best case there can only be salvation lasting for many consecutive eternities

The Dhamma is ever-present, in the Laws embedded into Reality, to be understood and wisely practiced by the diligent. Those in the Sangha are visible reminders that the Path of Dhamma can be tread, and tread successfully, serving as exemplars to all. All that remains is for the willing individual to understand and practice, to walk the Path towards self-deliverance.

i like the word "diligent" in the above sentence - in my opinion it is the best part therein, because the worshiper has really to apply themselves/diligence to the practice of faith if they really want to be as sure as possible that they are on quite the right track, but the so-called "dhamma/dharma" is a misleading concept, at least because it is intertwined with many other concepts such as "kamma/karma" and "samsara" in a way as if there is no true system Administrator/Provider of life in the universe, but rather "darkness", to put it another way, according to all that (indic) teaching, evil supposedly prevails over good during the course of one enormous eternity?!?!, and, according to the truth of the true God, such a belief/persuasion can take away from the effectiveness of (the manifestation/act/display of) goodness

there is at least a little self-control/self-discipline in the true faith, so i don't say that the worshiper must not perfect themselves, on the contrary, if there is a need for the worshiper to perfect themselves, then they have to do it

Hebrews 6:1-3 (NIV) "let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,a and of faith in God, instruction about cleansing rites,b the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And God permitting, we will do so.",

Hebrews 6:1-3 (NHEB) "let us press on to perfection, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works, of faith toward God, of the teaching of washings, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits."

Blessings

 

[ananda]

in principle i have nothing against good of others, however, as a witness of the true Lord God i am more or less kind of obliged to witness to His truth (i.e. even if It somehow contradicts any of their beliefs), in this case i can say that there is something better/greater than nibbana, namely the overall salvation in the true One, which is myriads of times as good as nibbana - just imagine how much better it will be if there is perfect salvation and abundant life for every person/soul ... ok, hopefully, the produced results will ultimately turn out to be really good for all humans/souls, but i can again say the words of the true One, namely, nevertheless be careful that it not turn out you are involved in spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness, because the "darkness" also has its deep secrets ... and this is an indication that you have followed an imperfect religion, because there is really overall salvation(at least as a potential if not yet as a practical achievement) in the true One, but here is how some (religious) worshipers haven't even heard/known about it although it is explained in the biblical scriptures - of course, as you may have already seen, unfortunately there has not been endlessly lasting salvation for all the hitherto elapsed time's infinity, nor can there be such salvation for all the coming time's infinity, in the best case there can only be salvation lasting for many consecutive eternities

I'm glad for you then, since you have directly witnessed & experienced "the true Lord God" and His truths, and it satisfies you. Sadly, I have no such experiences with "the true Lord God".

wisdom and knowledge are the things that are most critical in biblical scripture, which is why there is often speech about righteousness and truth therein instead of wisdom and knowledge i.e. mostly because of the distorted world beliefs/notions about wisdom and knowledge (remember that eve and adam "sinned a great sin" by "eating" from the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil", which is said to be "desirable for gaining wisdom/to make one wise")

It seems Christianity and Buddhism are not compatible at this point. Do you make a point of avoiding knowledge and wisdom, since they are great sins in your belief system?

i like the word "diligent" in the above sentence - in my opinion it is the best part therein, because the worshiper has really to apply themselves/diligence to the practice of faith if they really want to be as sure as possible that they are on quite the right track, but the so-called "dhamma/dharma" is a misleading concept, at least because it is intertwined with many other concepts such as "kamma/karma" and "samsara" in a way as if there is no true system Administrator/Provider of life in the universe, but rather "darkness", to put it another way, according to all that (indic) teaching, evil supposedly prevails over good during the course of one enormous eternity?!?!, and, according to the truth of the true God, such a belief/persuasion can take away from the effectiveness of (the manifestation/act/display of) goodness

Evil does not prevail over good in samsara. Samsara ... is simply what it is. It, in and of itself, is neither good nor evil, but our intentions and perceptions towards the objects in samsara is what makes things good or evil.

 

[toLiJC]

I'm glad for you then, since you have directly witnessed & experienced "the true Lord God" and His truths, and it satisfies you. Sadly, I have no such experiences with "the true Lord God".

the true One has never disappointed me, what has ever disappointed me is the lack/shortage of effective salvation for humans - having experience with the true God is a matter of judging things right (enough) without being (too) hasty with making/forming inferences, judgments, conclusions, opinions and decisions about anything...

It seems Christianity and Buddhism are not compatible at this point. Do you make a point of avoiding knowledge and wisdom, since they are great sins in your belief system?

i don't say that wisdom and knowledge are sinful of themselves, but i said that they are critical, because the way some human beings have used them has been distorted and these have especially been spiritual people practicing the faith wrong (as eve and adam did), and though wisdom and knowledge are not sinful of themselves, God is, first of all, love (rather than wisdom/knowledge)

Evil does not prevail over good in samsara. Samsara ... is simply what it is. It, in and of itself, is neither good nor evil, but our intentions and perceptions towards the objects in samsara is what makes things good or evil.

what i said in my previous post was that according to all those (indic) teachings including the doctrines of karma/kamma, samsara/sansara and dharma/dhamma it follows that there should be no true system Administrator/Provider of life and there should be too much evil in the world for too long - as if souls have constantly been born and suffered in this world for billions of years, which would be a greater domination on the part of evil - in fact, too great, because many souls would be too exploited that way...

so karma/kamma, samsara/sansara and the ensuing "dharma/dhamma" are at least directly linked/closely related to many evils with many souls, which, according to the truth of the true One, indicates that those doctrines are misbeliefs/heresies

Blessings

 

[ananda]

if souls have constantly been born and suffered in this world for billions of years, which would be a greater domination on the part of evil - in fact, too great, because many souls would be too exploited that way...

so karma/kamma, samsara/sansara and the ensuing "dharma/dhamma" are at least directly linked/closely related to many evils with many souls, which, according to the truth of the true One, indicates that those doctrines are misbeliefs/heresies

Blessings

I'd rather see it as countless opportunities to learn & reform, rather than a short lifespan after which one is judged, for an eternity of heaven or hell. IMO the former seems equitable, the latter does not.

 

[toLiJC]

I'd rather see it as countless opportunities to learn & reform, rather than a short lifespan after which one is judged, for an eternity of heaven or hell. IMO the former seems equitable, the latter does not.

such a testimony as yours here is at least one of the proofs for why the doctrine of "dharma/dhamma" is heretical, because worshipers that believe in karma/kamma, samsara and the rest of the common indic (religious) doctrines (are) usually (inclined to) perceive things as if there is a need for every person/soul to live thousands/millions of years under sin and death so as to be able to save themselves - therefore such worshipers have even been afraid that one life is too short to waste time with seeking the true God, without thus realizing that the faith is, first of all, a means of overall salvation in the short term, because the system Administrator/Provider of life doesn't intend to allow there to be a protraction of the struggle against sin - (after all) His purpose is to provide the human and other (be)souled beings and souls with abundant and eternal life as soon as possible - (just think about the question) what kind of hell would the world be if there was no true God?!, or if there were only buddhas that never stop the process of samsara for all souls in the long term?! - what kind of universal exploitation would that be?!

Blessings

 

[ananda]

such a testimony as yours here is at least one of the proofs for why the doctrine of "dharma/dhamma" is heretical, because worshipers that believe in karma/kamma, samsara and the rest of the common indic (religious) doctrines (are) usually (inclined to) perceive things as if there is a need for every person/soul to live thousands/millions of years under sin and death so as to be able to save themselves - therefore such worshipers have even been afraid that one life is too short to waste time with seeking the true God, without thus realizing that the faith is, first of all, a means of overall salvation in the short term, because the system Administrator/Provider of life doesn't intend to allow there to be a protraction of the struggle against sin - (after all) His purpose is to provide the human and other (be)souled beings and souls with abundant and eternal life as soon as possible - (just think about the question) what kind of hell would the world be if there was no true God?!, or if there were only buddhas that never stop the process of samsara for all souls in the long term?! - what kind of universal exploitation would that be?!

Blessings

If there was a "true God", I would imagine that its qualities would be more like those of the Buddha, and less like those of tribal gods from the bronze age.

 

[toLiJC]

If there was a "true God", I would imagine that its qualities would be more like those of the Buddha, and less like those of tribal gods from the bronze age.

neither you nor i nor anyone else are profited by exchanging the true God for another in the long term - millions of religious worshipers have done exactly this (in the form of all kinds of human religions) since the day of the Fall

Revelation 13:11-18 (AKJV) "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon. And he excercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceives them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell(i.e. and that no person should be able to have normal/good life or to make the life of their neighbor/cohabitant better), save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred three score and six."

Blessings

 

[ananda]

neither you nor i nor anyone else are profited by exchanging the true God for another in the long term - millions of religious worshipers have done exactly this (in the form of all kinds of human religions) since the day of the Fall

How do you know that you are following "the true God"? Perhaps I am.

Let me put the question in a different way: Which part(s) of the Buddhist Path do you have objections against?

1. Right view? (the practice of correcting misunderstandings & delusions);
2. Right resolve? (being harmless to myself & others, and refraining from ill will);
3. Right speech? (avoidance of lies, divisive & abusive speech, or idle chatter);
4. Right action? (abstinence from murder, thievery, sexual misconduct);
5. Right livelihood? (abstaining from professions which harm myself or others);
6. Right effort? (persistence against unwholesome mental states, and persistence towards generating & maintaining wholesome mental states);
7. Right mindfulness? (awareness of the present moment, instead of daydreaming about the past or the future);
8. Right concentration? (training the mind to be still, to be able to focus on one object without wavering)

 

[toLiJC]

How do you know that you are following "the true God"? Perhaps I am.

Let me put the question in a different way: Which part(s) of the Buddhist Path do you have objections against?

1. Right view? (the practice of correcting misunderstandings & delusions);
2. Right resolve? (being harmless to myself & others, and refraining from ill will);
3. Right speech? (avoidance of lies, divisive & abusive speech, or idle chatter);
4. Right action? (abstinence from murder, thievery, sexual misconduct);
5. Right livelihood? (abstaining from professions which harm myself or others);
6. Right effort? (persistence against unwholesome mental states, and persistence towards generating & maintaining wholesome mental states);
7. Right mindfulness? (awareness of the present moment, instead of daydreaming about the past or the future);
8. Right concentration? (training the mind to be still, to be able to focus on one object without wavering)

these eight practices you present here seem great/good - it is said to be "right", however, on what basis?!

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 "no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss;"

first of all, there is a true God Who is the only one that can set us up for coming to the knowledge of the perfect truth, because what are we the human beings?!, we have been made by God from scratch, which means the uncreated (be)souled beings have never been able to do anything by themselves, but God has been the one that has created them somehow from scratch (at least through the biological processes of pregnancy in women's wombs), and this indicates that humans are something like puppets in an universe full of potentially manifesting gods - of which only one is the true God, while all others are manifestations of the "darkness", i say "gods" in the sense of "those that make (as it were) the puppets think/act in different ways", so how can we be sure that our thinking is right if we are not sure what its source is or what "god" sets our mind for the way we think?!, which is why the first of the Ten Commandments says "you must not have any other god/lord(christ)/spirit besides the true One", while the second one says "you must not create any spiritual theory("graven image") or spiritual practice("likness") in connection/conjunction with any thing that is either in the "heaven", in the "earth", or in the "see/waters" (given that the true Lord God is the only one that is beyond these three), neither must you revere such things, nor serve them (even if not you but someone else created them)", so such principles are definitely some sound basis for practicing faith (especially given Who gave them)...

Blessings

 

[IAMABELIEVER1979]

Well, seek God so that I can be saved from wrath to come. He is the God of life.

 

[dlamberth]

Well, seek God so that I can be saved from wrath to come. He is the God of life.

Why I seek God has absolutely nothing to do with His wrath, which I don't believe in anyway. For me, it's all about Love.

 

[xpower]

Well, seek God so that I can be saved from wrath to come. He is the God of life.

You should seek God, out of love for God.

 

[dlamberth]

these eight practices you present here seem great/good - it is said to be "right", however, on what basis?

These practices seems very Christ like, to me. Perhaps that's a hint on their source. Being an infinite being, God does have a way of providing infinite faces.

 

[ananda]

these eight practices you present here seem great/good - it is said to be "right", however, on what basis?!

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 "no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss;"

first of all, there is a true God Who is the only one that can set us up for coming to the knowledge of the perfect truth, because what are we the human beings?!, we have been made by God from scratch, which means the uncreated (be)souled beings have never been able to do anything by themselves, but God has been the one that has created them somehow from scratch (at least through the biological processes of pregnancy in women's wombs), and this indicates that humans are something like puppets in an universe full of potentially manifesting gods - of which only one is the true God, while all others are manifestations of the "darkness", i say "gods" in the sense of "those that make (as it were) the puppets think/act in different ways", so how can we be sure that our thinking is right if we are not sure what its source is or what "god" sets our mind for the way we think?!, which is why the first of the Ten Commandments says "you must not have any other god/lord(christ)/spirit besides the true One", while the second one says "you must not create any spiritual theory("graven image") or spiritual practice("likness") in connection/conjunction with any thing that is either in the "heaven", in the "earth", or in the "see/waters" (given that the true Lord God is the only one that is beyond these three), neither must you revere such things, nor serve them (even if not you but someone else created them)", so such principles are definitely some sound basis for practicing faith (especially given Who gave them)...

Blessings

I claim that the Eightfold Path is great and right on the basis of personal, direct experience, that application of those practices in my daily life results not only in great and right results, but I notice that they improve me immensely as an individual towards greater peacefulness, loving-kindness, compassion, empathy, and equanimity, among other qualities.

On the other hand, I have no such personal, direct experiences associated with belief in the dogma I used to uphold - dogmas similar to what you state here (except perhaps anxieties and fear with the thought of offending "God" or being sent to his hell).

 

[ananda]

Well, seek God so that I can be saved from wrath to come. He is the God of life.

You should seek God, out of love for God.

Thanks for sharing. Have you met your God?